Really Exploring the Space

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Thats a terrible trade for the isles, taking mrazeks 3.8×2 for a late 3rd and 5th. Isles shouldnt touch that at all.

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May 30, 2022 at 12:25 p.m.

NickLeddyStan2

Joined: Sep. 2021

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Soucy deal is interesting but I don’t think Seattle would take it. If Bolduc had played the same way last year as he did in the 20-21 season it would be fair imo.

May 30, 2022 at 12:26 p.m.

NickLeddyStan2

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Quoting: Islesforthecup

Thats a terrible trade for the isles, taking mrazeks 3.8×2 for a late 3rd and 5th. Isles shouldnt touch that at all.

A first or two seconds and a third. That’s what it costs to dump Mrazek imo.

May 30, 2022 at 12:27 p.m.

Thread Starter

we miss leo k

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Quoting: Islesforthecup

Thats a terrible trade for the isles, taking mrazeks 3.8×2 for a late 3rd and 5th. Isles shouldnt touch that at all.

You're not keeping him, you're just buying him out and Toronto is giving you the picks for eating that buyout since they have less cap space.

Put it this way: would you expect much more than a 3rd and a 5th if you were retaining $1M in a trade?

May 30, 2022 at 12:32 p.m.

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Quoting: dannibalcorpse

Youre not allowed to have a condition on a buyout. So its the isles taking mrazek for a 3rd and a 5th. Whatever they do with him is their business. Also it might only be ~1 million this year but its a total of 4,733,332 that we have to eat on this buyout. Id expect at least a 2nd for that. Not to mention dead cap on the books for 4 years. Lou did a really good job at clearing the books of dead/bad cap and taking mrazek on is a terrible way to go.

May 30, 2022 at 12:33 p.m.

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we miss leo k

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Quoting: Islanders6187

A first or two seconds and a third. That’s what it costs to dump Mrazek imo.

Here's my full thinking on this: The only real move Toronto has with Mrazek is to buy him out. The cap penalty for that would be $1.03M/$833K/$1.43M/$1.43M for the next 4 years. The Leafs don't have a ton of space but they can make it work if they had to, but if another team came in and said "well eat that penalty for you" I think they would add picks to make it happen. But if you push for a 1st rounder, they're going to just do the buyout themselves.

If they had a 2023 2nd, it's what I would push for; if you want a 2024 2nd instead of those two picks, I think it's fair. I just don't think you can ask them for a 1st when they can absorb the buyout themselves without much difficulty.

May 30, 2022 at 12:34 p.m.

NickLeddyStan2

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Quoting: dannibalcorpse

Here's my full thinking on this: The only real move Toronto has with Mrazek is to buy him out. The cap penalty for that would be $1.43M/$833K/$1.13M/$1.13M for the next 4 years. The Leafs don't have a ton of space but they can make it work if they had to, but if another team came in and said "well eat that penalty for you" I think they would add picks to make it happen. But if you push for a 1st rounder, they're going to just do the buyout themselves.

If they had a 2023 2nd, it's what I would push for; if you want a 2024 2nd instead of those two picks, I think it's fair. I just don't think you can ask them for a 1st when they can absorb the buyout themselves without much difficulty.

I wouldn’t take him period. It’s not worth having dead money on your books unless you get two seconds or a first.

May 30, 2022 at 12:35 p.m.

Greysuits

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I don't think Seattle would have interest in Bailey and I think they could get more for Soucy than Bolduc and a third. I think the value is correct, just the wrong players for Seattle.

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May 30, 2022 at 12:36 p.m.

NickLeddyStan2

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Quoting: dannibalcorpse

Maybe the leafs will try and trade Marner for the 2nd pick to clear space. Idk. It’s hard to tell what they will do.

May 30, 2022 at 12:37 p.m.

#10

NickLeddyStan2

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Quoting: Greysuits

I don't think Seattle would have interest in Bailey and I think they could get more for Soucy than Bolduc and a third. I think the value is correct, just the wrong players for Seattle.

I agree. Bailey would help them be a more respectable team on and off the ice, but you don’t hire Ron Francis and Dave Hakstol for respectability.

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May 30, 2022 at 12:38 p.m.

#11

NickLeddyStan2

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Quoting: Greysuits

I don't think Seattle would have interest in Bailey and I think they could get more for Soucy than Bolduc and a third. I think the value is correct, just the wrong players for Seattle.

Just take Cooley/Savoie/Nemec and Seattle will have a good off season. If you can acquire a young right handed defenseman via trade that would be nice, but sometimes u have to be patient.

May 30, 2022 at 12:38 p.m.

#12

Thread Starter

we miss leo k

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Quoting: Islesforthecup

The dead cap is small enough to be something I wouldn't consider a hindrance going forward. I think if Toronto could get their hands on a 2023 2nd (maybe trading Kerfoot?) I'd want that rather than 3rd/5th but I don't think you can ask for much more than that. You also have to assume that other teams that can just absorb Mrazek (Chicago/Arizona/whoever) would be asking for a 1st to eat the contract, so if you have a lower ask you'll probably be more likely to get the picks.

It's a gamble to take, but for a team with a decent amount of bigger contracts expiring throughout the 4 years that the buyout would be on the cap, I think it's an interesting framework to explore.

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May 30, 2022 at 12:40 p.m.

#13

NickLeddyStan2

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Quoting: dannibalcorpse

You just need a lot more to explore it. Do you remember what Carolina got for taking on the Marleau contract?

May 30, 2022 at 12:47 p.m.

#14

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we miss leo k

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Quoting: Islanders6187

You just need a lot more to explore it. Do you remember what Carolina got for taking on the Marleau contract?

Trust me - if they could drag out the 2023 1st for this deal, I would put it there, but I could see TML fans not taking kindly to that.

For what it's worth though, Carolina got such a haul because Marleau's buyout just immediately went on their 2019 cap, all $6.25M of it, and Toronto had desperately needed that space to re-sign Mitch Marner.
I think Mrazek's total cost being $4.3Mish and being spread over 4 years makes it a lesser return, especially considering that Toronto could just do the buyout themselves and you get nothing in return if you ask for too much.

May 30, 2022 at 1:19 p.m.

#15

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Quoting: dannibalcorpse

So youre saying you would take on 7.6m of bad cap for a late 3rd and 5th???? Bc i know i sure as hell wouldnt

May 30, 2022 at 1:26 p.m.

#16

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we miss leo k

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Quoting: Islesforthecup

So youre saying you would take on 7.6m of bad cap for a late 3rd and 5th???? Bc i know i sure as hell wouldnt

I'm sure you could get the 2024 2nd but I'd rather have more chips in the deeper 2023 draft. And again, you're literally only taking him on to buy him out. I know you can't make that a condition of the trade, but just like you might trade for Carson Soucy with the idea that you're going to play him at LD2, you can easily trade for Mrazek knowing your plan is to buy him out. I think taking on that buyout penalty isn't really worth a ton more than a couple picks; again, Toronto can easily just buy him out themselves and you're trying to thread the needle between the point where they're happy to pay up the picks to save that penalty and where they thin you're asking for too much and they just eat the buyout themselves.

As pointed out above, it's basically what Carolina did when they traded for Patrick Marleau and bought him out. They took on a one-time $6.25M buyout that hit their cap immediately and they got a 1st out of it. How can you justify the Isles pushing for the same return when they're only taking on 2/3 the value of the Marleau buyout -and- they get to spread it out over 4 years?

May 30, 2022 at 1:32 p.m.

#17

Ritzy

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Quoting: Islanders6187

A first or two seconds and a third. That’s what it costs to dump Mrazek imo.

You're out to lunch.

Quoting: Islanders6187

Maybe the leafs will try and trade Marner for the 2nd pick to clear space. Idk. It’s hard to tell what they will do.

Well, I can tell you that they won't do that.

Quoting: dannibalcorpse

TOR will buy him out, end of story.

May 30, 2022 at 5:24 p.m.

#18

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Quoting: dannibalcorpse

Yes you can trade for him with the idea to buy him out and you can also trade a 1st for him if you wanted. The issue is its bad business. Bc toronto isnt allowed to make the buyout a requirement theyre going to have to pay to move the entire contract. What you do with it is your business. Also 4.7m in dead cap over 4 years should cost a 2nd rounder.

May 30, 2022 at 6:17 p.m.

#19

NickLeddyStan2

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Quoting: Ritzy

You're out to lunch.

Well, I can tell you that they won't do that.

TOR will buy him out, end of story.

Just theoretical. If people r talking about Tkachuk for #2 don’t c why Marner being moved is that out landish. I don’t disagree with you btw, I’m just speculating on his trade value.

May 30, 2022 at 6:17 p.m.

#20