My take on the trade

Forums/Armchair-GM

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Created by: Hullsy09

Team: 2022-23 Pittsburgh Penguins

Initial Creation Date: Mar. 1, 2023

Published: Mar. 2, 2023

Salary Cap Mode: Basic

Description

I think people on Twitter are over reacting -shocker. I think this for 3 main reasons:

•It’s not Jakub Chychrun. People had their hearts set on him - me included. If the trade was gonna be anyone besides him (or someone on his level who we didn’t expect) people were going to be underwhelmed because their expectations were so high.

•It’s a Hextall trade. People are so pissed at this guy (rightfully so) - that they are expecting and even in a weird way want his moves to be bad (they want to hate his moves because they hate him). When in reality, his two trade deadline moves (carter and rakell) have both been big successes. (Carter was very good season he was acquired, the extension was a mistake).

• they see “smart Twitter man and his red chart say bad” tweets and they want to join the angry mob. Don’t get me wrong, I’m not the “old man gets mad at clouds” guy who hates analytics. I respect analytics. But they are not the end all be all, and I think for pens fans to look at one red chart of a player who they haven’t watched for more than 30 seconds this season and say with 100% certainty that player sucks is completely unfair to the player. I’ll remind you that Carter and rakell both had “red bad charts” when they came over, and both were very successful (again with carter Im talking about the year he was acquired)

With this being said, I’m not saying the trade was perfect. It was far from that. Was it the move I would have made? No. But I think granlund could have been a solid addition with retention. Imagine trading out Blueger and acquiring granlund (with retained salary to almost cancel Blueger) for just a slight difference in picks: maybe gaining a third and giving away a 2nd and a 4th, or whatever it would be - that would be quite an upgrade for a small price to pay.

On an aside, if you look at the micro stats along with some film of granlund, it is clear to see that he is an excellent passer and distributor of the puck. It is his greatest strength. There are 2 takeaways from this:
•if he is played on the third line, perhaps he can be the player to unlock Heinens full ability, who has been a very streaky goalscorer in his pens tenure.
•if not Heinen, I think it would be a savvy move for GMRH to go out and get a Vatrano or Kubalik type 3rd line goal scorer to play with them. Maybe we have to ship out a couple picks along with brock mcginn? Idk about the details, but that could work. The bigger option would be going out and getting brock boesser, while shipping out pettersson/Dumo. That would leave our 3rd line pretty star studded, and I think you all remember what happened when we last put a star American sniper winger on our third line ;)

Final note: I think Dumo has played his best hockey of the season lately, and his improved play makes it less of a necessity to upgrade him.

Buyouts

Jack Johnson: $1,916,667

Draft	Round 1	Round 2	Round 3	Round 4	Round 5	Round 6	Round 7
2023
2024
2025

ROSTER

LONG-TERM OUTLOOK

EMBED

TEXT-EMBED

ROSTER SIZE	SALARY CAP	CAP HIT	OVERAGES	BONUSES	CAP SPACE
22	$82,500,000	$77,360,592	$0	$0	$5,139,408

Left Wing	Centre	Right Wing
Guentzel, Jake $4,500,000$4,500,000 LW, RW M-NTC UFA - 2	Crosby, Sidney $8,700,000$8,700,000 C NMC UFA - 3	Rust, Bryan $5,125,000$5,125,000 RW, LW NMC UFA - 6
Zucker, Jason $5,500,000$5,500,000 LW, RW M-NTC UFA - 1	Malkin, Evgeni $6,100,000$6,100,000 C NMC UFA - 4	Rakell, Rickard $5,000,000$5,000,000 RW, LW M-NTC UFA - 6
	Granlund, Mikael $5,000,000$5,000,000 C, RW UFA - 3	Heinen, Danton $1,000,000$1,000,000 LW, RW UFA - 1
Poehling, Ryan $750,000$750,000 C, LW UFA - 1		Archibald, Josh $900,000$900,000 RW, LW UFA - 1
O'Connor, Drew $750,000$750,000 LW UFA - 1
McGinn, Brock $2,750,000$2,750,000 LW, RW UFA - 3

Left Defense	Right Defense	Goaltender
Dumoulin, Brian $4,100,000$4,100,000 LD M-NTC UFA - 1	Petry, Jeff $2,343,750$2,343,750 RD M-NTC, NMC UFA - 3	Jarry, Tristan $3,500,000$3,500,000 G UFA - 1
Pettersson, Marcus $4,025,175$4,025,175 LD UFA - 3	Letang, Kris $6,100,000$6,100,000 RD NMC UFA - 6	DeSmith, Casey $1,800,000$1,800,000 G UFA - 2
	Rutta, Jan $2,750,000$2,750,000 LD/RD UFA - 3
Joseph, Pierre-Olivier $825,000$825,000 LD RFA - 2

Scratches	Injured Reserve (IR)	Long Term IR (LTIR)
Carter, Jeff $3,125,000$3,125,000 RW, C NMC UFA - 2
Ruhwedel, Chad $800,000$800,000 RD UFA - 2

Mar. 2, 2023 at 1:07 a.m.

HulkVader

Joined: Jun. 2018

Posts: 1,305

Likes: 373

You don’t have to be pissed at Hextall to acknowledge he’s the worst GM in the league.

Mar. 2, 2023 at 1:13 a.m.

Hullsy09

Thread Starter

Joined: May 2022

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Quoting: HulkVader

You don’t have to be pissed at Hextall to acknowledge he’s the worst GM in the league.

Chuck fletcher might be worse but yeah he’s brutal

Mar. 2, 2023 at 1:42 a.m.

Play_Party_Hard

Joined: Apr. 2022

Posts: 921

Likes: 380

I have to think that he's done trading after getting all that space to only use it for Granlund.

Agree that Granlund needs goal scorer on his wing and I think it will be an internal option. Heinen, Puustinen and Nylander are the best candidates.

Mar. 2, 2023 at 3:21 a.m.

Pensfan303

Joined: Jun. 2022

Posts: 1,464

Likes: 619

I think Granlund is best suited on Geno's or Sid's wing with his great playmaking ability. that would allow Rust to slide to the 3rd line which his skill set is perfect for and hes would add a goal scoring touch to the bottom 6

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Mar. 2, 2023 at 7:53 a.m.

Hullsy09

Thread Starter

Joined: May 2022

Posts: 2,770

Likes: 1,090

Quoting: Pensfan303

It makes sense. We will have to see how it plays out

Mar. 2, 2023 at 10:17 a.m.

JSEB93

Joined: May 2022

Posts: 3,356

Likes: 1,010

"With retention" that's a giant with though. There was no retention and he's signed for 2 more years. That's terrible. A player with no physicality, no defense, bad forechecking and limited scoring touch is exactly what this 3rd line didn't need. That's basically Jeff Carter that can skate better.

Add to that his contract with no retention and term, and look at what else they could have gotten, and it's easy to see it's a nightmare of a trade.

Mar. 2, 2023 at 10:19 a.m.

JSEB93

Joined: May 2022

Posts: 3,356

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Quoting: Pensfan303

If they were open to moving Rust to the third line - I would much rather they just moved Kapanen into the top 6 than make this trade

Mar. 2, 2023 at 11:33 a.m.

Hullsy09

Thread Starter

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Quoting: JSEB93

Who would you have gone for instead?

Mar. 2, 2023 at 11:42 a.m.

JSEB93

Joined: May 2022

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Quoting: Hullsy09

Who would you have gone for instead?

That's a difficult question to answer. Am I allowed to pick players that were traded earlier in the season? Or can I only pick ones who were available when the Granlund trade happened?

Hextall needed to make improvements to the team to make them competitive, or keep cap space. He somehow did neither

Hullsy09 liked this.

Mar. 2, 2023 at 2:26 p.m.

#10

Hullsy09

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Joined: May 2022

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Quoting: JSEB93

You can pick anyone you’d like, there are no rules here

JSEB93 liked this.

Mar. 2, 2023 at 3:19 p.m.

#11

JSEB93

Joined: May 2022

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Quoting: Hullsy09

You can pick anyone you’d like, there are no rules here

*THERE'S NO RULES* - hopefully you get the reference or this is awkward. So below are some options that I think would have been better. I think we could have afforded all of these options based on cap hit and/or assets given up.

1) Bertuzzi goes for a 1st and a 4th - half retained. He's also a UFA. So better player, lower cap hit, and you can let him walk in the offseason if need be.
2) Chychrun goes for a 1st, 2nd and 2nd. Could have easily added Bjugstad for a 3rd or 4th. Improve the 3C and get a top pair Dman for this year and 2 more.
3) Rangers get Patrick Kane for 2.5mil for a 2nd, 3rd and 4th. Better player, and cheaper. Also UFA at end of the season so can let him walk.
4) Islanders get Engvall for a 3rd. This one really bothers me. Perfect fit for what the Pens need at 3C. Only making 2.5mil. And a UFA at the end of the season.
5) Vegas gets Barbashev for a prospect in the QMJHL. I don't think he's really any better than Granlund, but he's only making 2.25mil and is a pending UFA
6) Winnipeg gets Niederreiter from the exact same team for the same round pick. Better contract - and in my opinion better player that would be a bigger help to the team
7) TOR got ROR for basically a 1st, 2nd, 4th. He fits exactly what the Pens needed
8) Possible Tarasenko depending on his NTC
9) Maybe most importantly, do nothing. If Granlund is your only move, this team isn't goig to be competitive. So why waste the cap space and assets to get him?

I'm sure there's more that I'm missing but I'll stick with that for now

Mar. 2, 2023 at 4:24 p.m.

#12

Hullsy09

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Quoting: JSEB93

1. Bertuzzi would have been awesome
2. https://twitter.com/craigsmorgan/status/1631084053184278528?s=46&t=6EdMZaFL2dVoFIHertXbfQ

Sounds like coyotes were looking for the highest pick they could get.

3. Kane had a full NMC and was only willing to go to rangers

4.Engvall just kinda sucks imo - I’d rather have granlund

5. Barbashev would have been decent for sure. They paid a bit more than we did for granlund but he’s half the salary cap so it evens out. Granlund better offensively, barbashev better energy/physical guy. Take your pick

6. Nino would have been great but he was traded before the pens were out on better players, so you can’t really fault them on that yk. Also seems like Nino went immediately after poile made it known they were selling - jets acted very quick

7. ROR very good player for sure. Big price to pay but worth it.

8. I think NYR was Tarasenko preference.

I like the idea of playing granlund on Malkins rw, sliding rust down, and going after a cheap but solid 3C (maybe max domi). I would have coughed up the extra 3rd and gotten detention on granlund to make that happen

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Mar. 2, 2023 at 4:45 p.m.

#13

JSEB93

Joined: May 2022

Posts: 3,356

Likes: 1,010

Quoting: Hullsy09

1) Dude - right
2) From what I saw it sounded like they juts didn't want to retain. Could be wrong though. Feel like if Hextall really wanted him though it wouldn't take too much more to convince ARI to drop like 5 picks in the draft.
3) True, he did. Is it an actual fact he would go nowhere else though? Could be
4) Oof - not sure I can agree Engvall sucks. He's exactly what they need on that 3rd line - and fits way better than Granlund in my opinion. There's no defense on that 3rd line - and Granlund just makes that worse. If Sullivan gave the 3rd line 50% ozone starts I might change my mind - but he seems too stubborn to do that.
5) Didn't they just give up a recent prospect? It would be like us giving up Poulin or something like that? Easy yes. Plus I wouldn't mind paying more. I would have like to have spent a ton on trades - I'm not really worried about giving up picks and prospects right now. That's exactly what I want to be doing. In regards to Barb vs Gran - I'll take the guy that's 3mil cheaper and only signed for this year.
6) Nino went quick but I'm not sure I can give them a pass just because they were looking at better players.
7) Yeah - ROR wasn't cheap. I just wish those were the moves they made ya know? Like go all in or do nothing - not this weird half assed middle ground they did where they didn't get a significant upgrade but also didn't save any money.
8) True - it could have been.

In my opinion if they were willing to move Rust down I would have just kept Kapanen and put him at 2RW - and then use the extra money elsewhere like a 3C. Domi, Bjugstad, etc. Although Domi's complete lack of defense scares the **** out of me as a 3C. If they could have gotten half retention my view about the trade would be significantly different for sure. The 5mil for 3 years is killing me

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Mar. 2, 2023 at 4:49 p.m.

#14

Hullsy09

Thread Starter

Joined: May 2022

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Quoting: JSEB93

You make some good points. What i keep coming back to is that people didn’t like the rakell signing at first and that has worked out very well. Hextall, despite ****ing up everything else, has gone 2/2 on deadline trades so far. Hopefully it works out better than we expect. At the end of the day if this team wins anything in the playoffs it’s going to be because of Crosby - I will never count us out of a playoff series as long as we have him

JSEB93 liked this.

Mar. 3, 2023 at 9:15 a.m.

#15

JSEB93

Joined: May 2022

Posts: 3,356

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Quoting: Hullsy09

As do you - I forgot about a couple players NTC.

I saw someone else say that on here - and to be honest I don't know anyone who didn't like the Rakell signing. I thought it was pretty well received. Either way - yeah that was definitely a W deadline trade. I'm not sure I can agree to call this deadline trade a W though. I think when you combine the fact that there were better options, they got no retention, he's signed for 2 more years after this, and isn't the type of player they need - I wouldn't consider this trade a W. I don't think it puts them in any better of a position to compete for anything this year with how good the other East teams are - and I don't think it puts them in any better of a position the next 2 years due to his cap hit and term. I just think overall it's an L trade for me. But sometimes good trades don't click and bad trades do - I'm obviously hoping I'm wrong haha.

And I agree abut your last statement. That's why I wanted to go all in. I know a lot of people like to say "there not beating BOS or CAR anyways so trading assets is a waste" - but if you give any team with Malkin and Crosby 3rd line help - they can beat anybody.

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Mar. 4, 2023 at 12:41 a.m.

#16

pensfan21

Joined: Jun. 2021

Posts: 3,632

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I dont dislike Granlund. I think he's a good player. I think in isolation it's a good move and combined with 1-2 other smart moves I wouldn't mind it at all. My issue is that I dont think Hextall addressed any of our needs this TDL and I still dont see this team as likely to get past 1 round. Our biggest issues are:

- lack of youth
- lack of speed
- trouble with goal scoring/finishing (especially bottom 6)
- lack of mobility/speed on the D
- huge d zone breakdowns and lapses (dont know if this is on players and coaches or because of the issue mentioned right above)
- Awful powerplay
- Lack of grit/physicality

Again, I like Granlund and am very optimistic it will work out for him individually. I just dont see it as addressing any of our needs or significantly improving the team. He's a great passer, but passing isn't really something we struggle with. Bonino move I love for nostalgia and both that deal and the Kulikov deal are also fine in isolation. But looking at all 3, none really bring something we needed. Yeah Bonino and Granlund help the bottom 6 a little, but they dont really help address the big picture issues that will haunt the Pens once it's time to face New Jersey, New York, Carolina, etc. If we were faster overall or targeted maybe a Duclair or Anthanasiou their speed would have given us a better chance against New Jersey. If we got Domi or Bertuzzi they would've helped bottom 6 scoring/finishing and also brought grit against a tougher team like Rangers. If we got Chychrun, he would have significantly helped our mobility on the D and with our transition game, an area Carolina thrives in. So yeah I dont think any of the players we got are bad, but just not the trades we needed. We've had these issues for years and Hextall has done nothing to address them. Instead he's made a bunch of unecessary, or flat out bad moves. I think it's past time for him to go.

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Mar. 4, 2023 at 12:42 a.m.

#17

pensfan21

Joined: Jun. 2021

Posts: 3,632

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Quoting: pensfan21

I dont dislike Granlund. I think he's a good player. I think in isolation it's a good move and combined with 1-2 other smart moves I wouldn't mind it at all. My issue is that I dont think Hextall addressed any of our needs this TDL and I still dont see this team as likely to get past 1 round. Our biggest issues are:

- lack of youth
- lack of speed
- trouble with goal scoring/finishing (especially bottom 6)
- lack of mobility/speed on the D
- huge d zone breakdowns and lapses (dont know if this is on players or coaches, or because of the issue mentioned right above)
- Awful powerplay
- Lack of grit/physicality

Again, I like Granlund and am very optimistic it will work out for him individually. I just dont see it as addressing any of our needs or significantly improving the team. He's a great passer, but passing isn't really something we struggle with. Bonino move I love for nostalgia and both that deal and the Kulikov deal are also fine in isolation. But looking at all 3, none really bring something we needed. Yeah Bonino and Granlund help the bottom 6 a little, but they dont really help address the big picture issues that will haunt the Pens once it's time to face New Jersey, New York, Carolina, etc. If we were faster overall or targeted maybe a Duclair or Anthanasiou their speed would have given us a better chance against New Jersey. If we got Domi or Bertuzzi they would've helped bottom 6 scoring/finishing and also brought grit against a tougher team like Rangers. If we got Chychrun, he would have significantly helped our mobility on the D and with our transition game, an area Carolina thrives in. So yeah I dont think any of the players we got are bad, but just not the trades we needed. We've had these issues for years and Hextall has done nothing to address them. Instead he's made a bunch of unecessary, or flat out bad moves. I think it's past time for him to go.

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