I agree with you that Myers and Beauviller could be traded and flipped by the teams that acquire them. I can 't see Sabres wanting three years of Garland.
Why are does everyone want to overpay Barbashev? Check his long term record.

Garland is a better player right now than Ollofsson. Cost controlled to as a replacement. And they gain a draft pick for a player they can’t re sign. For sure that’s not saying they would even want garland but he has value, one of the best players on van 5 on 5 and he doesn’t get much pp1 time if any. I like the player but I think it’s a trade that would work for both sides. Could even flip the 3rd into that trade from Anaheim to make it more enticing. Then if olli doesn’t work out, we can flip him at the deadline.

Barbashev is gonna get overpaid because of his playoffs and performance since going to Vegas. Not entirely saying he’s worth it but I put him as overpaid for that reason and adding some grit that van needs. I’d argue they could use another player like Joshua/Barbashev. I’m hoping Podz can mould into a player this year as well.

Also adding him into Van because of Milstein hahaha.

Canucks overpaying for UFA seems to be a Canucks tradition. Falling in love with a player who had a good run on very good team, doesn't necessarily translate to a good run for five years on middling team, especially five more years at age 28 years 10 months when the season starts.

I’m also basing this an Aquilini’s wish for playoffs. So it’s a bit more of an aggressive UFA signing for sure. I personally would rather have the cap space tbh because I don’t think we’re contenders at all. But I have to base this on a playoff revenue hungry owner.

Lemme try to explain the Hawks' situation vis-a-vis Vancouver. What I think you're undervaluing is that cap space is also an asset; indeed, a PRECIOUS one. When you are over the cap, you MUST make distasteful moves to get under it. Hawks fans know how painful it is to be in cap hell. We lived it for years. You can't improve your team! Indeed, if you have all great players, you STILL gotta sell meaningful assets to do it.

I've shared it on this site before, I'll share it again. Do you think the Hawks wanted throw Teravainen into the Bickel dump (no one knew about his MS then; very sad)? Of course not! The Hawks did it BECAUSE THEY HAD TO make a deal work. And it takes two to make a deal - each team has to get what they need or a deal won't happen.

You can talk until you're blue in the face about "free assets," but that doesn't mean the Hawks will willy-nilly just gobble up your least favorable assets - to whom you're paying big dollars.

If a team is over the cap, they MUST get under it and if just giving away your least favorable assets for "free" won't work, then you must include assets that the other party values. In the Hawks case, management has torn the team down to the studs as the first necessary step to what will undoubtedly be a LONG rebuild. Players beyond a certain age are unlikely to help us win in 5, 6, 7, 8 years, no matter how good they are now. What rebuilding teams want are good draft picks and prospects; as many of them as they can get.

The Hawks are probably best situated to help the Canucks; to take on your least favorable assets with big contracts without having to worry about hitting the cap. But our interest in doing so is NOT gaining a player who's time frame doesn't comport with when the Hawks will again be competing for a Cup. It'll be for the draft picks and prospects who grow over time into meaningful pieces that WILL be relevant when the Hawks need them to be.

I hope this has helped. Cap space is a precious asset, one that trumps how good or bad a player is when your team is over the cap. The Hawks are best positioned to help you get under the cap, but only if we get what we need out of the deal to be competitive again in the future - terrific prospects and/or good draft picks. If VAN is unwilling to part with those kind of assets, then VAN will be faced with negotiating with another team in a re-tool or rebuild. In that instance, I bet those other teams will squeeze VAN even harder because they'll have less space to work with than the Hawks do.

Cheers

Yeah I get what you’re saying completely. But Vegas did it twice lol. And the biggest key to this is Myers being a UFA. Like sure add in another asset but at what point would Van even bother giving up so much for a deal that is just going to expire at the end of the season and they can just trade him at the deadline as well. Their easiest route to clear cap space is Beauvillier. I would love to get rid of Myers but it’s not gonna make sense to give up a copious amount for an expiring deal with no term.

If CHI doesn’t want it, there could be another team that’s willing. You can say some team will try squeeze them for more and they rightfully should, it’s just proper business. But why would you let another team at the bottom gain assets when you could? It’s the same thing. Just because you don’t wanna help a team out doesn’t mean you don’t take a decent deal right now at this moment and then turn it into a great deal down the line. Package those assets and move up in the draft. Or just keep accumulating draft picks.

Smart GMs aren’t gonna care, if they can squeeze value where they can they will. Like I said if the deal is good enough in the short term and can make it a great deal in the future, you do it. If I’m CHI looking at this deal of course you’re gonna want more. Every team in the league would want more coming back and to win a trade outright at all costs. But if you can net assets to make bigger moves you can.

We can agree and disagree all we want, bring up tons of examples but it’s really not gonna matter because we will both just keep finding examples for either of our cases haha. I just want to see some ballsy moves in the NHL. Some more exciting moves. Plus CHI wins either way whatever deal they do, they have Bedard!

Yes, the Hawks could also flip assets acquired at the TDL, for more picks. But anything can happen in the interim... injuries can make all the difference when relying on the ability to flip an asset at the TDL. I'd think it'd be bordering on malpractice, frankly, to count on that future return as part any deal, if something changed and that return greatly diminished. And let's face it, things change ALL THE TIME. (Reminds me of a joke: "Know how to make God laugh? Tell him your plans!")

Honestly, I think until VAN bites the bullet and figures out a way to dump OEL, it's gonna be a rough go for the team. His deal is at the core of the cap hell the team faces. And IMNSVHO (in my not so very humble opinion), it'll be a big bullet for VAN to bite. If his dump were to happen with the Hawks this year, my guess is that the conversation would have to start with the 2023 and 2024 1st round picks. Would that be painful to you? Believe me, I know it would.

But it'd also be painful to the Hawks. We have just one position that actually is decent in the prospect pipeline - LD. So, in addition to costing the Hawks a **** ton of $$$$, OEL would impede the progress of these prospects who just this year will begin matriculating to the NHL. That's a big cost, too, that must be included in any of the Hawks' calculations. But still, likely more so than any other team, we could make that work. It's just that I suspect VAN will not do what it takes to give the Hawks what they need to assume that contract.

What is worse, biting the bullet now or stringing out the pain of his contract over time? I know what I'd do, but I'm not VAN's GM and I don't have to try and fill the seats in the arena. GMing is hard to do, isn't it? I mean, the Hawks strategy is clear as a bell, but that doesn't mean they'll make it work!

Look at EDM, I gotta believe that after a decade or so of rebuilding that they will deem anything less than a Cup win with McDavid, a failure! They are also in cap hell, and absent being able to dump Campbell's contract they can't really improve their team, either (again, IMNSVHO). Interestingly, the Hawks are one of the few teams that could help them, too - also for a price meaningful to them. We sure don't need Campbell. I think assuming his contract also begins with a couple 1st round picks and/or top prospects heading the Hawks' way. Unless they are willing to bite THAT bullet their window may soon start to close.

The bottom line is that the Hawks could help a LOT of contending teams that are intent on making a "final" run, by taking on some big contracts and affording those teams cap flexibility at a critical time. But there's even a limit to that - even the Hawks could run out of cap room to assume big dumps.

Very difficult to win in the NHL.

Cheers

Thanks for the great discussion... Hate to admit it, but you've given me food for thought! {;- )

Way past my bedtime; good nite!

Starting off I would say it doesn’t put any reader in an agreeable frame of mind when the author puts a description in before he makes an signings or trades that insults & talks down to anyone that doesn’t share the authors limited POV.
Hawk fans are disagreeable to a lot on here because they are listening to what the reall world GM of the team is saying. They are following his train of thought based on what he has said & trying to bring that perspective here.
Things like:
1.) He is set with goaltenders & not looking for any more (aimed at other ACGMs not you)
2.) He is looking at weaponizing their cap space to bring in FORWARDS.
3.) He doesn’t see him making all the picks he currently has for this year.
Could those to guys from your trade end up getting flipped? Sure they could but the Hawks have a bunch of prospects stuck in Rockford that need a chance to play in the NHL. Does it make more sense for the Hawks to plug up their d-corps with other teams cast offs or let the players they drafted develop?
If KD thinks he has more picks then he needs now would another 3rd really tempt him at all?
On a side note: I’ve been watching Myers since the Sabres drafted him & IMO he is overrated by many Canuck fans.

The best part about interpreting anything online is that it’s your perception or your perceived perception, with no room to openly convey your point or where you’re coming from real time. So whenever you or I read something, we are probably not grasping the full context of the posts. Goes both ways. If we could sit down in a room or on the phone to talk about it all I’m sure we would actually be agreeing more than we aren’t online.

That’s exactly my point as well, we both are trying to use the brains of the GMs/Owners in constructing half these proposals. Anyone who actually wants Van to be a contender knows they shoulda been rebuilding years ago.

Trust me, me for one is no way in hell overrating Myers. He’s horrible. BUT he has aspects of his game NHL GMs value. Size, physicality, skating, rhd. So for a contender that needs some added depth, you see it all the time. If it’s TDL or FA, they want size. Myers for his contract is terrible but if it was making 1-2m, would be easier to deal with.

Honestly, I think until VAN bites the bullet and figures out a way to dump OEL, it's gonna be a rough go for the team. His deal is at the core of the cap hell the team faces. And IMNSVHO (in my not so very humble opinion), it'll be a big bullet for VAN to bite. If his dump were to happen with the Hawks this year, my guess is that the conversation would have to start with the 2023 and 2024 1st round picks. Would that be painful to you? Believe me, I know it would.

But it'd also be painful to the Hawks. We have just one position that actually is decent in the prospect pipeline - LD. So, in addition to costing the Hawks a **** ton of $$$$, OEL would impede the progress of these prospects who just this year will begin matriculating to the NHL. That's a big cost, too, that must be included in any of the Hawks' calculations.

But still, likely more so than any other team, we could make that work. It's just that I suspect VAN will not do what it takes to give the Hawks what they need to assume that contract.

I don't know how your situation resolves itself without VAN facing down that gun at their head. What is worse, biting the bullet now, or stringing out the pain of his contract over time? I know what I'd do, but I'm not VAN's GM and I don't have to try and fill the seats in the arena. GMing is very hard to do, isn't it? I mean, the Hawks strategy is clear as a bell, but that doesn't mean they'll make it work!

Look at EDM, I gotta believe that after a decade or so of rebuilding that they will deem anything less than a Cup win with McDavid, a failure! They are also in cap hell, and absent being able to dump Campbell's contract they can't really improve their team, either (again, IMNSVHO). Also interestingly, the Hawks are one of the few teams that could help them, too - also for their price. We sure don't need Campbell. I think assuming his contract also begins with a couple 1st round picks and/or top prospects heading the Hawks' way, and unless they are willing to bite THAT bullet their window may soon start to close.

The bottom line is that the Hawks could help a LOT of contending teams that are intent on making a "final" run, by taking on some big contracts and affording those teams cap flexibility at a critical time. But that comes with a price. Even the Hawks could run out of cap room to assume more dumps!

Very difficult to win in the NHL.

Cheers[/quote]



Oh man the day they made that OEL trade, I was in absolute shock. Why… I would have rather made a run at Chychrun. Had all those bad contracts expiring at the end of the year, coulda flipped some at the TDL. Instead they made a horrendous trade to win now for a D man with an anchor of a contract who is well on the decline.
It’s up there for one of the worst contracts and trades in NHL history.

Exactly, you can tank all you want. Rebuild with the best prospects but it still doesn’t mean you’ll win. You need to be healthy all playoffs, team chemistry clicks at the right time, luck, and don’t get screwed over on crucial penalty calls etc.

As a Canucks fan, I pretty much signed myself up for a life of misery. I have a hard time accepting that we will never win a cup, especially with current ownership.

Oh man the day they made that OEL trade, I was in absolute shock. Why… I would have rather made a run at Chychrun. Had all those bad contracts expiring at the end of the year, coulda flipped some at the TDL. Instead they made a horrendous trade to win now for a D man with an anchor of a contract who is well on the decline.
It’s up there for one of the worst contracts and trades in NHL history.

Exactly, you can tank all you want. Rebuild with the best prospects but it still doesn’t mean you’ll win. You need to be healthy all playoffs, team chemistry clicks at the right time, luck, and don’t get screwed over on crucial penalty calls etc.

As a Canucks fan, I pretty much signed myself up for a life of misery. I have a hard time accepting that we will never win a cup, especially with current ownership.[/quote]

Hey, Naslund... Trust me, long-time Hawks fans understand your sentiment. Until "Dollar Bill" Wirtz departed the scene and his son, Rocky, took over, the Hawks were moribund. Attendance was pitiful; virtually no one cared. The Chicago Cubs didn't win it all for over a century. (I remember a Cubs fan stating in 1984 upon losing three games to two to the Padres in the playoffs - after being up two games to none: ("If they didn't break your heart, they wouldn't be the Cubs.")

As I shared earlier in this thread, though, things change - that is a constant. We never know how things will go... Hope springs eternal and we have something to bond ourselves to and with other fans of our team(s)!

Cheers

Oh man the day they made that OEL trade, I was in absolute shock. Why… I would have rather made a run at Chychrun. Had all those bad contracts expiring at the end of the year, coulda flipped some at the TDL. Instead they made a horrendous trade to win now for a D man with an anchor of a contract who is well on the decline.
It’s up there for one of the worst contracts and trades in NHL history.

Exactly, you can tank all you want. Rebuild with the best prospects but it still doesn’t mean you’ll win. You need to be healthy all playoffs, team chemistry clicks at the right time, luck, and don’t get screwed over on crucial penalty calls etc.

As a Canucks fan, I pretty much signed myself up for a life of misery. I have a hard time accepting that we will never win a cup, especially with current ownership.[/quote]

If it makes you feel any better I’m a Buffalo Bills fan, so as close as they’ve come, they have never won a Super Bowl. I know what you mean but life of misery

Not sure how I messed up that last post.