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Was LA Better Off Before

Created by: tryger
Team: 2023-24 Los Angeles Kings
Initial Creation Date: Jul. 13, 2023
Published: Jul. 18, 2023
Salary Cap Mode: Basic
Description
Still not a fan of moving Vilardi, but hard to argue that the team isn't better.

Blake turned:

G: Cal Petersen, W: Gabe Vilardi, C: Rasmus Kupari W: Alex Iafallo, D: Sean Durzi, D: Helge Grans, 2nd rounder ($11M+Vilardi + Kupari & no LD2 & no goalie starter)

into

G: Cam Talbot, C: Pierre Luc-Dubois, W/C: Trevor Lewis; D: Vlaidsav Gavrikov, D: Andreas Englund ($1M+8.5M+775K+5.875+1M= $17M)


Cal Petersen retention to offset the $2M from Provorov.
Free Agent Signings
RFAYEARSCAP HIT
1$900,000
2$4,000,000
Trades
1.
2.
3.
LAK
WPG
4.
5.
6.
LAK
  1. Petersen, Cal ($2,000,000 retained)
PHI
7.
Retained Salary Transactions
Termination Fees
DraftRound 1Round 2Round 3Round 4Round 5Round 6Round 7
2024
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2025
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2026
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ROSTER SIZESALARY CAPCAP HITOVERAGES TooltipBONUSESCAP SPACE
22$83,500,000$80,601,667$0$3,712,500$2,898,333
Left WingCentreRight Wing
Logo of the Los Angeles Kings
$894,167$894,167 (Performance Bonus$2,650,000$3M)
LW, C
RFA - 1
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$10,000,000$10,000,000
C
NMC
UFA - 1
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$5,500,000$5,500,000
LW, RW
UFA - 3
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$4,200,000$4,200,000
LW, RW
M-NTC
UFA - 5
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$5,500,000$5,500,000
C
NMC
UFA - 4
Logo of the Los Angeles Kings
$4,250,000$4,250,000
RW, LW
UFA - 1
$4,000,000$4,000,000
RW, C
RFA - 2
Logo of the Los Angeles Kings
$1,675,000$1,675,000
C
RFA - 1
Logo of the Los Angeles Kings
$7,875,000$7,875,000
RW, LW
NMC
UFA - 6
Logo of the Los Angeles Kings
$894,167$894,167 (Performance Bonus$212,500$212K)
RW, LW
RFA - 1
$900,000$900,000
C, LW, RW
RFA - 2
Logo of the Winnipeg Jets
$4,000,000$4,000,000
LW, RW
UFA - 2
Left DefenseRight DefenseGoaltender
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$4,125,000$4,125,000
LD
UFA - 8
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$11,000,000$11,000,000
RD
M-NTC
UFA - 4
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$3,000,000$3,000,000
G
M-NTC
UFA - 2
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$1,700,000$1,700,000
LD/RD
RFA - 1
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$3,150,000$3,150,000
RD
UFA - 1
Logo of the Los Angeles Kings
$1,500,000$1,500,000
G
UFA - 1
Logo of the Los Angeles Kings
$775,000$775,000
LD
RFA - 2
Logo of the Los Angeles Kings
$863,333$863,333 (Performance Bonus$850,000$850K)
RD
RFA - 3
ScratchesInjured Reserve (IR)Long Term IR (LTIR)
Logo of the Los Angeles Kings
$1,300,000$1,300,000
LW, RW
RFA - 1
Logo of the Los Angeles Kings
$1,000,000$1,000,000 (Performance Bonus$1,000,000$1M)
G
NTC
UFA - 1
Logo of the Los Angeles Kings
$775,000$775,000
C, LW, RW
RFA - 1

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Jul. 18, 2023 at 2:17 p.m.
#1
Danny B is here
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Team definitely seems better imo
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Jul. 18, 2023 at 2:19 p.m.
#2
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Miss the playoffs.
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Jul. 18, 2023 at 2:22 p.m.
#3
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I think Iafallo is the big loss in the trade, not Vilardi. Vilardi showed promise, but had consistency and health issues.

Iafallo is one of the best defensive forwards in the game, and is an offensive catalyst for his linemates. He's one of the most underrated players in the NHL IMO, and the fact that Blake threw him in the PLD trade as a cap dump is a travesty.

Don't get me started on the Petersen/Provorov trade. They did the same thing with Walker that they did with Iafallo.

I don't disagree that the on-ice product is better than it was last year, but it came at a huge cost to organizational depth, especially at RHD. They gave up a ton of assets, and all they have to show for it is an overpaid pair of players.
Jul. 18, 2023 at 2:45 p.m.
#4
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Quoting: tkecanuck341
I think Iafallo is the big loss in the trade, not Vilardi. Vilardi showed promise, but had consistency and health issues.

Iafallo is one of the best defensive forwards in the game, and is an offensive catalyst for his linemates. He's one of the most underrated players in the NHL IMO, and the fact that Blake threw him in the PLD trade as a cap dump is a travesty.

Don't get me started on the Petersen/Provorov trade. They did the same thing with Walker that they did with Iafallo.

I don't disagree that the on-ice product is better than it was last year, but it came at a huge cost to organizational depth, especially at RHD. They gave up a ton of assets, and all they have to show for it is an overpaid pair of players.


In regards to Iafallo, I'm waiting to see if Moore's game returns next season and if Byfield can continue to develop the defensive side of his game. In those two I see enough to offset his loss, but Byfield needs to take a step and Moore needs to return to how he looked two seasons ago. Iafallo, Kupari, and Vilardi is a rough loss defensively, but stronger center depth might offset this, in the Kings system, PLD could actually become a legit 2-way threat.

Walker is just bad circumstances, Spence and Clarke are upgrades and deserve the ice time. I think we knew his time was done by the end of the season and we weren't getting much value for him. And we knew Durzi had production but like JMFJ he was too poor in his own zone.

My hope is PLD and Fiala produce better together than they ever have apart, which is a heck of a gamble for two players who haven't played together.

I think the best part of these trades is LA has time for our future top-9 center to come up and more room for prospects to come up, If Roy is signed long-term like Mikey Anderson, we really don't need to worry about too much RD depth: Doughty, Clarke, Roy, Spence can work for us for quite some time.
Jul. 18, 2023 at 3:43 p.m.
#5
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Quoting: tryger
In regards to Iafallo, I'm waiting to see if Moore's game returns next season and if Byfield can continue to develop the defensive side of his game. In those two I see enough to offset his loss, but Byfield needs to take a step and Moore needs to return to how he looked two seasons ago. Iafallo, Kupari, and Vilardi is a rough loss defensively, but stronger center depth might offset this, in the Kings system, PLD could actually become a legit 2-way threat.

Walker is just bad circumstances, Spence and Clarke are upgrades and deserve the ice time. I think we knew his time was done by the end of the season and we weren't getting much value for him. And we knew Durzi had production but like JMFJ he was too poor in his own zone.

My hope is PLD and Fiala produce better together than they ever have apart, which is a heck of a gamble for two players who haven't played together.

I think the best part of these trades is LA has time for our future top-9 center to come up and more room for prospects to come up, If Roy is signed long-term like Mikey Anderson, we really don't need to worry about too much RD depth: Doughty, Clarke, Roy, Spence can work for us for quite some time.


I have no problem with the acquisitions other than I think the Kings overpaid PLD by roughly $500k and Gavrikov by $1.5M per season.

I have a huge problem with the assets the Kings had to give up to acquire and sign these players (including the Petersen dump).

Also, I think you overestimate PLD's defensive ability. He's not a liability on defense, but he's not going to be in the Selke conversation either.
Jul. 18, 2023 at 4:26 p.m.
#6
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Quoting: tkecanuck341
I have no problem with the acquisitions other than I think the Kings overpaid PLD by roughly $500k and Gavrikov by $1.5M per season.

I have a huge problem with the assets the Kings had to give up to acquire and sign these players (including the Petersen dump).

Also, I think you overestimate PLD's defensive ability. He's not a liability on defense, but he's not going to be in the Selke conversation either.


100% with you on PLD and Gavrikov, however, if the cap is going to jump as much as they say in the next two seasons, I'm ok with PLD, and if Gavrikov and Clarke are successful together this season, personally, I will be fine with this.

The team gave up a lot, I agree, but here are the facts: Vilardi is an injury-prone winger and would have been difficult to move for a 1st rounder before last season and likely challenging to sign this year, Iafallo was set to take on 4th line minutes (with Vilardi and Fiala likely to take 3rd line minutes), Kaliyev would continue wasting away as well on the 4th line, Kupari was having issues taking Lizotte's role on the 3rd line, Walker was still impacted by his injuries, Campbell was never getting back the starter job, and Durzi didn't score enough to offset his defensive flubs.

Although goaltending was considered the chief issue for LA, the real issue was who could play 2LD. The Kings had no one in their system or on their radar who could beat out Gavrikov, they overpaid but now have a defense that will make Copley and Talbot's job much easier and likely to face fewer shots. After 2LD was addressed, the real concern was what is the stop-gap or long-term plan for Kopitar being phased out. Danault and PLD have both proven they can eat top-line minutes and are used as PKers. Is he a better 2-way player than Kopitar or Danault, probably not, but at this payment, the Kings are betting he hasn't hit his final gear, which is either scoring more goals, defending better, or most likely expertly feeding the puck to Fiala and Kaliyev to become a 80 point player. Playing him against weaker competition with Fiala on his wing, I think it's not an awful bet.
Jul. 18, 2023 at 5:13 p.m.
#7
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Quoting: tryger
100% with you on PLD and Gavrikov, however, if the cap is going to jump as much as they say in the next two seasons, I'm ok with PLD, and if Gavrikov and Clarke are successful together this season, personally, I will be fine with this.

The team gave up a lot, I agree, but here are the facts: Vilardi is an injury-prone winger and would have been difficult to move for a 1st rounder before last season and likely challenging to sign this year, Iafallo was set to take on 4th line minutes (with Vilardi and Fiala likely to take 3rd line minutes), Kaliyev would continue wasting away as well on the 4th line, Kupari was having issues taking Lizotte's role on the 3rd line, Walker was still impacted by his injuries, Campbell was never getting back the starter job, and Durzi didn't score enough to offset his defensive flubs.

Although goaltending was considered the chief issue for LA, the real issue was who could play 2LD. The Kings had no one in their system or on their radar who could beat out Gavrikov, they overpaid but now have a defense that will make Copley and Talbot's job much easier and likely to face fewer shots. After 2LD was addressed, the real concern was what is the stop-gap or long-term plan for Kopitar being phased out. Danault and PLD have both proven they can eat top-line minutes and are used as PKers. Is he a better 2-way player than Kopitar or Danault, probably not, but at this payment, the Kings are betting he hasn't hit his final gear, which is either scoring more goals, defending better, or most likely expertly feeding the puck to Fiala and Kaliyev to become a 80 point player. Playing him against weaker competition with Fiala on his wing, I think it's not an awful bet.


I don't agree with your assessment of Iafallo. Blake has said that the plan is to continue to develop Byfield as a center, so when Byfield moves back, Iafallo's spot would have been on Kopitar's wing. Kopitar isn't going to be 1C forever, so Iafallo as a 2LW next to Kopitar would have been ideal.

Last summer, Vilardi wouldn't have gone for a 4th round pick. He was the target of many "waiver pickup" articles before the season because he hadn't cracked the lineup yet. However, he had his breakout season and was beginning to look like a star player in the making. Look at Brandon Hagel for an example of what a player like that should return on the market after only a single successful season.

I also strongly disagree with your assessment of Sean Walker. If anything, he proved that he was not hampered by his injuries after he returned. He is a quality RHD on a team-friendly contract, and should not have been treated as a cap dump. At worst, the Kings should have gotten a 3rd round pick for him.

Jack Campbell hasn't played for the Kings in 3+ years.

Not sure where you're getting your stats from, but PLD played an average of 4 seconds per game on the PK last season with the Jets and has a combined total of 42 minutes of PK time in his entire 6 year career. He does not kill penalties and is not ever used in defensive situations. Like I said, I wouldn't go so far as to call him a defensive liability, but his defense is below average at best.

Pierre-Luc Dubois SH TOI

As I said before, I have no issues with the additions to the roster, but the Kings dramatically overpaid for what they brought in. Depth and redundancy is a good thing to have in the NHL, and the Kings went from a team that had an abundance of both to a team that has very little of either. The Kings will be better this year maybe, but I think the 2025-26 Kings look significantly worse than they did 4½ months ago.
Jul. 18, 2023 at 5:45 p.m.
#8
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Quoting: tkecanuck341
I don't agree with your assessment of Iafallo. Blake has said that the plan is to continue to develop Byfield as a center, so when Byfield moves back, Iafallo's spot would have been on Kopitar's wing. Kopitar isn't going to be 1C forever, so Iafallo as a 2LW next to Kopitar would have been ideal.

Last summer, Vilardi wouldn't have gone for a 4th round pick. He was the target of many "waiver pickup" articles before the season because he hadn't cracked the lineup yet. However, he had his breakout season and was beginning to look like a star player in the making. Look at Brandon Hagel for an example of what a player like that should return on the market after only a single successful season.

I also strongly disagree with your assessment of Sean Walker. If anything, he proved that he was not hampered by his injuries after he returned. He is a quality RHD on a team-friendly contract, and should not have been treated as a cap dump. At worst, the Kings should have gotten a 3rd round pick for him.

Jack Campbell hasn't played for the Kings in 3+ years.

Not sure where you're getting your stats from, but PLD played an average of 4 seconds per game on the PK last season with the Jets and has a combined total of 42 minutes of PK time in his entire 6 year career. He does not kill penalties and is not ever used in defensive situations. Like I said, I wouldn't go so far as to call him a defensive liability, but his defense is below average at best.

Pierre-Luc Dubois SH TOI

As I said before, I have no issues with the additions to the roster, but the Kings dramatically overpaid for what they brought in. Depth and redundancy is a good thing to have in the NHL, and the Kings went from a team that had an abundance of both to a team that has very little of either. The Kings will be better this year maybe, but I think the 2025-26 Kings look significantly worse than they did 4½ months ago.


Ah lots of flubs here from me, I meant Petersen instead of Campbell and totally right about PLD PK.

This season the plan was to play Byfield on the first line, which would have put Iafallo on the bottom line, Kaliyev and Iafallo on the bottom line while JAD and Grundstrom ride the pine. That also didn't seem ideal.

You'll hear no argument about moving Vilardi, other than we likely would have been forced to deal with his contract before dealing with figuring out a goalie situation. I didn't think we'd get a Hagel return, as he wasn't already signed or on a team with cap constraints. But I did hope Vilardi + 2nd would have been enough for PLD, but I guess Montreal or other teams must have pushed the price.

I think Walker really didn't provide the offense we needed from the bottom pairing, he and Edler didn't work, and the Kings will likely be better off with Clarke or Spence in his position. Every team wouldn't bite on him because they knew the Kings were against the cap, it was less "what was he worth" and more "what was his worth to the Kings." At that point the Kings needed the cap space for moving him, more than they need the player, that by definition is a cap dump. I think this is similar logic to why Iafallo was moved, but I would have prefered we moved Moore over Iafallo.
Jul. 18, 2023 at 5:59 p.m.
#9
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Quoting: tryger
Ah lots of flubs here from me, I meant Petersen instead of Campbell and totally right about PLD PK.

This season the plan was to play Byfield on the first line, which would have put Iafallo on the bottom line, Kaliyev and Iafallo on the bottom line while JAD and Grundstrom ride the pine. That also didn't seem ideal.

You'll hear no argument about moving Vilardi, other than we likely would have been forced to deal with his contract before dealing with figuring out a goalie situation. I didn't think we'd get a Hagel return, as he wasn't already signed or on a team with cap constraints. But I did hope Vilardi + 2nd would have been enough for PLD, but I guess Montreal or other teams must have pushed the price.

I think Walker really didn't provide the offense we needed from the bottom pairing, he and Edler didn't work, and the Kings will likely be better off with Clarke or Spence in his position. Every team wouldn't bite on him because they knew the Kings were against the cap, it was less "what was he worth" and more "what was his worth to the Kings." At that point the Kings needed the cap space for moving him, more than they need the player, that by definition is a cap dump. I think this is similar logic to why Iafallo was moved, but I would have prefered we moved Moore over Iafallo.


Blake obviously decided that guys like Walker and Iafallo were the odd men out from the Kings roster, but that doesn't mean he should have sold them for pennies on the dollar, which is exactly what they did. The Kings decided that in order to fit Dubois and Gavrikov on the roster, they had to move Iafallo, Walker, and Petersen out (Vilardi, Kupari, Grans, and Durzi went too, but those were value return without significant cap implications). Instead of shopping around and getting a solid value return for Iafallo and Walker, Blake just threw them in the trade as cap dumps with absolutely no effect on the trade value, and that's a travesty.

I'd argue that Iafallo was worth a 1st round pick on his own. The fact that you have him pegged for 4th line duties is indicative of why we disagree. Iafallo is a top six player in the NHL.
Jul. 18, 2023 at 6:35 p.m.
#10
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Quoting: tkecanuck341
Blake obviously decided that guys like Walker and Iafallo were the odd men out from the Kings roster, but that doesn't mean he should have sold them for pennies on the dollar, which is exactly what they did. The Kings decided that in order to fit Dubois and Gavrikov on the roster, they had to move Iafallo, Walker, and Petersen out (Vilardi, Kupari, Grans, and Durzi went too, but those were value return without significant cap implications). Instead of shopping around and getting a solid value return for Iafallo and Walker, Blake just threw them in the trade as cap dumps with absolutely no effect on the trade value, and that's a travesty.

I'd argue that Iafallo was worth a 1st round pick on his own. The fact that you have him pegged for 4th line duties is indicative of why we disagree. Iafallo is a top six player in the NHL.


I think Blake figured he had to make his moves early or he'd be left with getting none of the players he wanted and overpaying Vilardi. Doesn't justify moving Iafallo and Walker at losses, but I think I'm coming to terms with it.

I think Iafallo is worth a 1st, but how he was played last season, I think it's unlikely he'd return that 1st. If it were me who was coach/GM Iafallo would be on the top line with Kopitar and Kempe. Iafallo and to a lesser extent Moore, are those glue players that just make lines look stronger and more defensively sound. Iafallo was instead sent out as a 3rd line winger who could move up the lineup due to injuries.I'd always wanted: Kempe-Kopitar-Arvidsson; Moore-Danault-Fiala; Iafallo-Byfield-Vilardi; Kaliyev-Lizotte-Kupari. But ultimately we had too many forwards and money that needed to be reappropriated to goal and defense. They already indicated Byfield would start again on the top-line at wing which meant: Byfield-Kopitar-Kempe; Moore-Danault-Arvidsson, and Lizotte-Fiala were probably more likely to play with Vilardi for the offensive boost than with Iafallo which would have been more balanced (although you are wasting Vilardi on the bottom line). We don't have to agree with it, but it's the likelihood of where he would be played on a healthy kings roster.
Jul. 18, 2023 at 6:47 p.m.
#11
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Quoting: tryger
I think Blake figured he had to make his moves early or he'd be left with getting none of the players he wanted and overpaying Vilardi. Doesn't justify moving Iafallo and Walker at losses, but I think I'm coming to terms with it.

I think Iafallo is worth a 1st, but how he was played last season, I think it's unlikely he'd return that 1st. If it were me who was coach/GM Iafallo would be on the top line with Kopitar and Kempe. Iafallo and to a lesser extent Moore, are those glue players that just make lines look stronger and more defensively sound. Iafallo was instead sent out as a 3rd line winger who could move up the lineup due to injuries.I'd always wanted: Kempe-Kopitar-Arvidsson; Moore-Danault-Fiala; Iafallo-Byfield-Vilardi; Kaliyev-Lizotte-Kupari. But ultimately we had too many forwards and money that needed to be reappropriated to goal and defense. They already indicated Byfield would start again on the top-line at wing which meant: Byfield-Kopitar-Kempe; Moore-Danault-Arvidsson, and Lizotte-Fiala were probably more likely to play with Vilardi for the offensive boost than with Iafallo which would have been more balanced (although you are wasting Vilardi on the bottom line). We don't have to agree with it, but it's the likelihood of where he would be played on a healthy kings roster.


Doing nothing is a perfectly valid alternative to doing something stupid.
Jul. 18, 2023 at 7:46 p.m.
#12
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Quoting: tkecanuck341
Doing nothing is a perfectly valid alternative to doing something stupid.


I'd agree if the team wasn't in such a rush to win now. I'm assuming Blake feared that he'd rather go for it now than risk not going to the playoffs this season. Nonetheless, your point still stands.
Jul. 18, 2023 at 7:53 p.m.
#13
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Quoting: tryger
I'd agree if the team wasn't in such a rush to win now. I'm assuming Blake feared that he'd rather go for it now than risk not going to the playoffs this season. Nonetheless, your point still stands.


That's exactly what he thinks. I'd rather be very good for a decade with a chance to get better, than great for 2 seasons followed by 8 years of mediocrity.
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