Just because a bunch of idiot Leaf fans parrot trading Nylander, doesn't make it a good move. Yes, I'm reluctant to move a 40g player.



I don't know why you showed a bunch of ES PPG stats from those players just to say they replaced the depth guys we lost. To which, you still haven't answered. who makes up for Nylanders production? What about Matthews goal differential... or, his whopping 0 goals per say? Are you going to trade Marner for Parayko next just because Marner scored 1 point in the second round? Our issue wasn't defense, it was a lack of scoring. We literally couldn't score, doesn't mean we should trade anyone in the big 4 for some overrated DFD's that would likely collapse in Keefe's system. You've failed to address that.



The only true statement here is that the defense got better. The bottom 6 you've magically brewed in a potion of bargain bin players is quite literally abysmal. And you removed an 80 point player and replaced him with a bunch of crappy bottom 6 guys to fix an issue we didn't have. Good lord. You can't slap Jonny Toews as our 3C then say we're structured for the playoffs LOL



So then why not just play Robertson and McMann* (not McCann) instead of electing to sign dinosaur toews and 2m to a terrible comtois?

And where are you hearing any of this lol. Brad had stated in an interview prior to July 1st that he was looking to add depth scoring and depth on the back end, which he addressed by adding Domi, Bert, and Klingberg. There's no news about him pushing to move any one of the big 4 just to bring in a defenseman. This is all fodder from people on capfriendly. You gotta watch for another 7 years man you are LOST.

Calling me delusional because I'm opting to keep a ppg forward rather than trading him for this sites most overrated DFD as if the hockey world has learned NOTHING from the Hall for Larson trade. Not even mentioning you traded Brodie after how good he was last year. Let me guess, you were among the people thinking we should just buy him out, right?

Your takes are comical. Have a good night and make sure not to drive when drinking,

People keep saying this like they don't realize we're always the team to have more cap invested in our forwards than our opponents. Put together a collection of elimination games from any playoff series and most will be low scoring affairs. That's why teams talk about building from the net out and being able to win those 2-1 games. The formula has been rubbed in our faces over and over again and yet we still continue to double down on this theory despite our failures.

How did we win our first elimination game in 19 years? We played a perfect defensive checking game and waited for our chance. How many goals did we need to win? Two, one in overtime. We probably would have won 1-0 if not for an egregious error by WIly as well.

As for your last point, this couldn't be further from the truth... Over that 7 game stretch Nylander had 2 goals, one a fluky bounce off the ref to leave him alone in front, the other a turnover he was able to skate on to and score what was a rare softie short-side on Bob. Over that 7 game stretch he had a -7 goal differential despite being sheltered from the top two matchups and often starting in the offensive zone.

Marner, Matthews and Rielly have all been better of the last 3 years, as were ROR and Knies in his short stint last year.

The Knights of Nylander are truly a loyal bunch...

People keep saying this like they don't realize we're always the team to have more cap invested in our forwards than our opponents. Put together a collection of elimination games from any playoff series and most will be low scoring affairs. That's why teams talk about building from the net out and being able to win those 2-1 games. The formula has been rubbed in our faces over and over again and yet we still continue to double down on this theory despite our failures.

How did we win our first elimination game in 19 years? We played a perfect defensive checking game and waited for our chance. How many goals did we need to win? Two, one in overtime. We probably would have won 1-0 if not for an egregious error by WIly as well.

As for your last point, this couldn't be further from the truth... Over that 7 game stretch Nylander had 2 goals, one a fluky bounce off the ref to leave him alone in front, the other a turnover he was able to skate on to and score what was a rare softie short-side on Bob. Over that 7 game stretch he had a -7 goal differential despite being sheltered from the top two matchups and often starting in the offensive zone.

Marner, Matthews and Rielly have all been better of the last 3 years, as were ROR and Knies in his short stint last year.

The Knights of Nylander are truly a loyal bunch...

In 5 of the last 7 games in which the Leafs have been eliminated, the opposing team has scored 3 or more goals, Leafs have scored more than 1 goal in 2 of those same 7. Outscoring the other team is all that matters, however you do it. Defense and offense are two sides of the same coin, but there's no debating that the offence has let them down time and again.

Placing that goal purely on the shoulders of Willy is horsesh*t and you know it. Knies coughs the puck up, Gustafsson stands by the half wall with his thumb in his ass way to long and gets left in the dust by his man, Gio abandons his assignment to cover for Gus... Nylander could have and should have tracked back with Stammer if he realized what was happening, but he was one of 4 Leafs to f*ck up in the span of about 2 seconds on that play.

I'm talking about Nylander over the last 3 years here, (over which time he has undeniably been our most consistent goal producer, not sure how you could possibly say that couldn't be further from the truth) not specifically that 7 game stretch, but since you brought it up those two goals were tied for the team lead over that stretch, and he was a -3, not -7, not that +/- is reliable for individual performance, especially over that small a sample.

In 5 of the last 7 games in which the Leafs have been eliminated, the opposing team has scored 3 or more goals, Leafs have scored more than 1 goal in 2 of those same 7. Outscoring the other team is all that matters, however you do it. Defense and offense are two sides of the same coin, but there's no debating that the offence has let them down time and again.

Placing that goal purely on the shoulders of Willy is horsesh*t and you know it. Knies coughs the puck up, Gustafsson stands by the half wall with his thumb in his ass way to long and gets left in the dust by his man, Gio abandons his assignment to cover for Gus... Nylander could have and should have tracked back with Stammer if he realized what was happening, but he was one of 4 Leafs to f*ck up in the span of about 2 seconds on that play.

I'm talking about Nylander over the last 3 years here, (over which time he has undeniably been our most consistent goal producer, not sure how you could possibly say that couldn't be further from the truth) not specifically that 7 game stretch, but since you brought it up those two goals were tied for the team lead over that stretch, and he was a -3, not -7, not that +/- is reliable for individual performance, especially over that small a sample.

The biggest issue for Toronto in the playoffs has been producing goals/offence (went 7 straight games this playoffs with two goals or less en route to elimination) and Nylander has been our best and most consistent guy for that over the last 3 years.

Thank god, a toronto fan with common sense.

I wouldn't be moving him if he didn't have value, and yes, I literally did tell you who'd be replacing his scoring; Bertuzzi, Domi, Klingberg, Knies, Skjei, and Toews if healthy. No I'm not going to trade Marner, Matthews or Tavares because we can't. Our absurd investment of cap into the forward core has brought us nothing but failure.

I shared those stats to show he was not the best forward these playoffs. The formula to winning in the playoffs has been rubbed in our faces time and time again; we finally win our first elimination game in 19 years against Tampa and how many goals did we need? Two, one if not for an egregious mistake by Nylander. Everybody says you need to build from the net out and be able to win those tight-checking 2-1 games, but the leafs will show you how it's done!

Our second best D in the playoffs was 33 year old career bottom-pair Luke Schenn, who walked for nothing. Our best defensive previous to that suffered a career ending injury. Guys like Gio, Holl, McCabe, Brodie all struggled mightily in the playoffs, that's what truly matters. Our starter's have had a sub .900% each of the last 2 playoffs, something the D shares responsibility for.

We'd be adding the shutdown pair from one of the league's best defensive teams, a pair that led in ice-time over even the Slavin pair, one that just made it to the conference finals again.

We find the type of partner Rielly typically has success with, but one who can actually skate and move the puck. This pushes McCabe and Klingberg down to the 3rd pair.

So instead of signing Toews to see if he could regain some of his old self after getting healthy, while only asking him to play in the bottom 6, we'll just bring up McCann (who was a healthy scratch much and last year and have Holmberg (healthy scratch much of last year) and Kampf as our centers?

After Tre added those pieces he was asked about adding to the backend, to which he replied, "I do like D with long sticks".

Also, you keep forgetting this is not a 1 for 1 trade....

Well the key to winning was scoring one regulation goal. We did not have clear possession and were trying to lockdown a 1-0 game. Nylander should be on Stamkos like glue yet he's literally on an island. There are so many of these plays from Willy that you can't simply chalk it up to a mistake. He's sheltered from the top 2 matchups, gets mostly offensive zone starts and still manages to post the worst goal differential of any forward on the team, you don't see any issue with that?

The people who dismiss this act as if the other side is clueless, when in reality the evidence is right before your eyes....

Pesce and Skjei are successful because Brindy runs his system where he deploys his top 4 in equal usage. They are a possession driven team and don't spend a lot of time in the defensive zone. When they do, guys like Pesce and Skjei aren't very involved because all 5 guys on the ice are able to contribute defensively. With Toronto, it's the opposite. Guys like Brodie are great because he's very involved in the defensive zone and is able to bail out Mo because of Mo's defensive mistakes.

Keefe, however, does NOT run that system. We see what happens when GM's overvalue DFD's after sheltered seasons. Look at Parayko and Chiarot. Got more usage and now suck. Skjei and Pesce would likely falter in Keefe's system because he deploys his defense core much differently. You're also banking on Skjei overshooting again and scoring 18, when Keefe does not like his back end players taking shots. This is also why we signed Klingberg to fix that issue.
You'd essentially be bringing in two linemates from a completely different system then slapping them on our first pair. And to move Nylander to do that? Absolutely terrible asset management. You'd be fired into the sun yesterday.

The trade is essentially Pesce for Nylander, Brodie for Skjei. Which, still have no idea why you're so keen on making a sequel to Hall for Larsson lmfao.

This team still isn't better than our current team, and your bottom 6 still sucks.

I see the issue with our Richard winner last season scoring 0 goals in round 2. It's not Willy's fault the supporting cast doesn't show up. Not going to trade him for overrated dmen just because of it then scrounge the bargain bin to fill our bottom 6.

All hail treliving because this toronto fan can't build a team for sh*t.

This is not the same as the Hall for Larsson trade as much as you want to mold it into that., Larsson was not established at that time, now that he is I'm sure most people would trade Hall for Larsson again. Anyway, the more nonsense you spew them more you show you really don't know what you're talking about. In your head you're equating Pesce to Chiarot simply because he's termed a DFD. They are not the same player at all, Pesce is basically an upgraded Muzzin.

You're just so unbelievably dense... Not his fault they didn't show up? Matthews and Rielly carried this team to the second round, where Matthews was getting top matchups in a tight checking battle that saw neither side give up much. Willy is so bad defensively that he had to be demoted to the 3rd and given offensive zone starts only, and he STILL posted the worst goal differential of any forward. To put that in very simple terms, the Leafs were losing at a higher rate when Nylander was being given 3rd lines to matchup against than with any other line. People who see the obvious just laugh at self-assured folks like yourself who really have no clue.

The reason elimination games are so low scoring and why some players seem to disappear is because they're completely commited to tight-checking hockey, something that doesn't leave many opportunities for offense (as is intended). People who only watch for offense think Willy is the only player to step up in these games literally because he cheats for offense and gives himself space to skate around the perimeter, often at the expense of defense. Game 5 against Florida he was atrocious defensively, truly truly awful. Yet fairweather fans only remember him scoring a weak one short-side.

Again, what was the score of the series clinching game against Tampa? 2-1. The only win against Florida? 2-1. Those are the games you need to win, and they have typically not gone our way. Investing more than another team in our forward core hasn't fixed that, maybe time to adjust your thinking?

This is not the same as the Hall for Larsson trade as much as you want to mold it into that., Larsson was not established at that time, now that he is I'm sure most people would trade Hall for Larsson again. Anyway, the more nonsense you spew them more you show you really don't know what you're talking about. In your head you're equating Pesce to Chiarot simply because he's termed a DFD. They are not the same player at all, Pesce is basically an upgraded Muzzin.

You're just so unbelievably dense... Not his fault they didn't show up? Matthews and Rielly carried this team to the second round, where Matthews was getting top matchups in a tight checking battle that saw neither side give up much. Willy is so bad defensively that he had to be demoted to the 3rd and given offensive zone starts only, and he STILL posted the worst goal differential of any forward. To put that in very simple terms, the Leafs were losing at a higher rate when Nylander was being given 3rd lines to matchup against than with any other line. People who see the obvious just laugh at self-assured folks like yourself who really have no clue.

The reason elimination games are so low scoring and why some players seem to disappear is because they're completely commited to tight-checking hockey, something that doesn't leave many opportunities for offense (as is intended). People who only watch for offense think Willy is the only player to step up in these games literally because he cheats for offense and gives himself space to skate around the perimeter, often at the expense of defense. Game 5 against Florida he was atrocious defensively, truly truly awful. Yet fairweather fans only remember him scoring a weak one short-side.

Again, what was the score of the series clinching game against Tampa? 2-1. The only win against Florida? 2-1. Those are the games you need to win, and they have typically not gone our way. Investing more than another team in our forward core hasn't fixed that, maybe time to adjust your thinking?

Carried the team in the first round to f off in the second and be invisible.

Pesce is an upgraded Muzzin until he doesn't know how to play in Keefe's completely different system after spending his career in a sheltered Brindy system. That was my entire point. Chiarot looked amazing under Ducharme and beside Weber, went to Florida, average, then sucked on Detroit because Yzerman thought he could take harder matchups after looking good on Montreal. Once Parayko got more usage on the top pair his defensive stats plummeted. There is a clear trend of overvaluing DFD's then watching them falter in greater roles. Not trying to recreate Hall for Larsson, again.

If you want to acquire Pesce, do so without moving one of our top forwards. Simple. Even then, it's likely Toronto is on his clause. THANK GOD for that.

Well the key to winning was scoring one regulation goal. We did not have clear possession and were trying to lockdown a 1-0 game. Nylander should be on Stamkos like glue yet he's literally on an island. There are so many of these plays from Willy that you can't simply chalk it up to a mistake. He's sheltered from the top 2 matchups, gets mostly offensive zone starts and still manages to post the worst goal differential of any forward on the team, you don't see any issue with that?

The people who dismiss this act as if the other side is clueless, when in reality the evidence is right before your eyes....

Everyone entitled to their opinion - laying Leafs playoff failures at Nylander ‘s feet is a cirque de soleil stretch imo but 🤷🏻…before you anoint Pesce & Skjej as the next Larry Robinson / Serge Savard - check out their numbers in the playoffs; worse than Brodie & McCabe’s.
Again - if you feel the Leafs need to improve their D (at expense of forwards) I disagree but you’re entitled to your opinion - but this is Nowhere near enough of a return for Willy