1) Montreal is rebuilding, they don't want to go "all in" now

Also, not smart for Ottawa to trade for an injury prone player, they have enough injury problems

2) Not a good trade for Ottawa, like at all.

3) High price to pay but Pulock is kinda worth it


Just like Suzuki is the next Bergeron? Please...

Also Dach has been injured a lot, his value is dropping

Also, this is what Chabot is capable of doing :

Andy & Rono
Thomas Chabot from the Ottawa Senators is done for the season with a fractured hand. It is big loss for the Senators without any doubt. The best player on the team, he was also one of the best defensemen, maybe even TOP10, in the NHL this season. Elite defenseman.

Yes mike matheson= thomas chabot...... what are ya smoking bud?

MTL glazers just cant comprehend that Chabot is actually good lol

You just proved our point with that graphic! All offense, no defense, Guhle has tha same offensive acumen but with elite defensive abilities, think prime Roman Josi. Dach has elite 1C skill, sure he has had injury issues but with a cap hit of just under 3.5 mil, that out weighs any injury concerns GM's have. Also you are yapping about Dach having injury concerns even though he is only paid 3.3 mil and you don't think Chabot does makes you a hypocrite. Chabot has played in 7 NHL seasons and has yet to play a full season, if Dach's value is declining after 5 seasons Chabot's has already hit rock bottom. You are just too blinded by your man crush on Chabot to see the reality of the situation and not even Sens fans are agreeing with you. Sorry, I know you don't like this but its a very, very easy pass for the Habs

No Matheson is better defensively too, it's like you only see the offensive side and think that's what makes a good D man

You gotta man crush on every guy on the Habs roster bud including mike matheson lmao hilarious

I am done with you, you won't listen and are too ignorant to waste any more time on. Have a nice short life crackhead

Chabot is not a Top 2D though, he is always ranked among the league's Top-20/30 and is considered or makes Team Canada


18th best PPG among D-men since 2018-19, his 21 y/o season (the age Guhle was last year), 2nd in TOI/GP in the whole league behind only Doughty. He did that without much help on a rebuilding team.


It's more Stutzle + Sanderson compared to Dach + Guhle that is quite ridiculous...


Chabot has been scapegoated by some Sens fans so it means he is not good. That's all it takes for the average hockey fan. However pretty much all the hockey world (players, management, coaches, analysts, etc) think he is quite good. I'm sure there's some Habs fans here ready to say that Guhle is going to be better than Erik Karlsson.

Defense is not just throwing checks, blocking shots and pin guys on the boards. Puck recoveries and zone exits (transition) is even more important. The best D-men today are the ones who drive offense (because you don't have to defend if you push the offense) and Chabot is considered Elite in transition but yeah Guhle who has been caved in most of his career so far is obviously better...

Except that Stutzle, Tkachuk and Chabot are a few tiers above Suzuki, Dach and Guhle


Maybe people are busy, you know. I didn't have time to read the thread until now... but hard to pass on these very homerish takes.


Holy cow, are you really basing yourself on that sample size? Chabot plays on a discombobulated team/organization. The team has just been sold, they were finally able to fire the incompetent GM. Coaching staff are next, just need a "reason" like they needed a reason for Dorion. The team is very inexperienced in general but the obvious problem is that they don't play the right way. Judging Chabot with the +/- is going to be heavily misleading. I mean, there's still people who look at that stat?


lol no it's not.

You wanted comments? Here you go


I'm sorry but I really have to call out your takes in this thread

It is extremely unlikely that Dach ever comes close to Stutzle's level. He's 1 year older and has 88 pts less in 7 games less and just got another major injury. Stutzle just paced for 95 pts in his 20 y/o season... He has been playing "badly" for his standards this season and has 10 pts in 9 games... Dach has a lot to do to even be as good as Josh Norris. Only 13 guys have a better GPG since 2021-22 by the way, his 22 y/o season. Norris has a 0.51 GPG since then, Caufield has 0.43 GPG since 2021-22 to put that in perspective. Plus, Norris was one of the best centers defensively in his rookie season, despite facing top competition every night.

Heck, it's not even sure that he will be better than Greig and Pinto...

Now Sanderson vs Guhle... If you expect Guhle to be in the same tier, prepare yourself to be disappointed just like when Montreal silly medias have been comparing Suzuki with Bergeron...

As for Guhle already being better defensively and having the same offensive ceiling as Chabot, this is based on what?


First, it is me who provided that "graphic"... Secondly, the graph shows 64 percentile in defense... This is Guhle graph for last year :



He has a good start this season but you might want to hold back a little. Prime Roman Josi? Seriously?

And where do you see that "elite 1C skill" for Dach?

Also, Chabot played all 71 games in 2019-20 (Covid) and in 2017-18, his rookie season, he also played in the AHL... 2/7 healthy seasons is better than 0/5

Dach has played 72% of possible games the last 4 seasons and is going to play only 2 games this year... In comparison, Chabot played 85% of the games and is going to play more than 2 games this season...

1. Stutlze is where Dach should be based on skill alone but given his injuries, yeah he is ahead for sure. Tkachuk and Zuke are pretty equal players, although Tkachuk has had an 80+ point season Suzuki hasn't been able to play long enough with skilled wingers to put up those kinds of points. If CC wasn't injured Suzuki likely hits 80 last season. Guhle is waaayyy better defensively than Chabot, like it's not even close and as I sain numerous times his offensive ceiling is equal to Chabot's. I would rather have the guy capable of putting up 40-50 points and not being a defensive blackmore than the guy who puts up 40-50 points but is a nightmare in his own end and costs 8 times as much! Guhle quite simply is the better option of the two given age, contract, defensive abilities, even his offense isn't that far below Chabot's.

2. You said a lot but really didn't say anything at all lmao. You want us to ignore the season Chabot is having based on the state of the organization then you throw up Guhle's stats from last season (his rookie season) when the organization just went through the 2 worst years in NHL history for injuries and pretend that that doesn't affect Guhle's numbers at all. Also even though Guhle was injured and missed half the season he was still on pace for 33 points in said rookie season, wanna guess what Chabot's pro rated rook season points were? 33, he had 25 points in 63 games, prorated that equals exactly what Gihle was on pace for last year as well.

3. Sorry, my bad, I guess it should be you who I thanked for making my point on how bad Chabot is defensively but I noticed you didn't use the same graphic for Guhle or provide Chabot's JFresh card, so here it is



What you will notice is that Guhle's ES Def was 36%, his finishing was 90%, G/60 87%, A1/60 68% as a rookie on an injury riddled team with 4 other rookie D men, where as Chabot's were 19%, 38%, 85% and 96% respectively. All this to say that Chabot is worse defensively, doesn't finish as well as Guhle, has a slightly lower G/60 than Guhle but put up more A1/60 than Guihle did in his rookie season (not shocking at all)

So as a final note, thank you for proving my point about Guhle having a similar offensive ceiling and being better defensively! All while facing stiffer competition, taking fewer penalties and playing with similar quality teammates

My first post in this thread was to say that this was not the type of move Montreal would be looking to do as they are rebuilding, so they would keep the youngest cheaper players but if you don't see the tier difference between Stutzle, Tkachuk/Sanderson, Chabot and Suzuki, Dach, Guhle then I guess only time will be able to show it to you

Despite all the empiric evidence I have provided you still come back with the silly takes so ok I guess. Let me guess, I would venture to say that you have compared Suzuki to Bergeron in the past?

I have never compared Suzuki to Bergeron, I don't recall ever comping Suzuki to anyone actually.

You may have agreed its not a move the Habs are going to make but you keep saying it's cause they are rebuilding and not its not just that they are rebuilding, the value alone heavily favours the Sens, as I have shown with the Chabot graphic, he is very one dimensional with little to no defensive skill, Guhle was better defensively last season and was on the same scoring pace that Chabot was on in his rookie season. The Habs wouldn't trade a guy who has the same offensive upside but who is also twice as good defensively and then add a 22 year old center who despite his injury history also has top line ppg potential. That is just a stupid move, whether or not you agree about their skill levels, this type of proposal is the same level of ridiculousness as the Sens offering Stutzle + Sanderson for Matheson.

If you are going after one of our top Defensive in Pullock, Pinto needs to be involved.

Finally got a few free minutes to answer this...

Rookie season : Chabot : 0.40 PPG - Guhle : 0.41 PPG
2nd season : Chabot : 0.79 PPG - Guhle : 0.43 PPG

Ok so Guhle paced similarly to Chabot in his rookie season, great. You think he will be able to keep up with what Chabot did in his 2nd season?

You're very quick to determine that they have the "same offensive upside". Guhle was nowhere near as good as Chabot was in Junior or in his last WJC. There's a clear difference in pedigree and upside. It doesn't mean that Guhle can't become a 0.6+ PPG D-man but it's not guaranteed at all

Now regarding defensively... it could be partially because you are not aware of all the aspects of defense in hockey but saying that Chabot "is very one dimensional with little to no defensive skill" shows another lack of comprehension. Look at the graph I posted in post #51, Chabot is elite in possession exits, carries, pretty high end in denials and other aspects. He is elite in transition which diminishes any struggle he could have in the defensive zone, which is compounded by playing in DJ's Smith defensive or more lack there of. It would be very long to explain but it's easy to gain the offensive zone against Ottawa and there's absolutely no structure in the defensive zone with forwards collapsing down low, which affects D-men defensive metrics and make goalie's life hell. You'll see as soon as DJ is canned (we've been waiting as long as we waited for Dorion), how good guys like Chabot, Sanderson and Chychrun really are.

I can guarantee you that real GMs in real life would JUMP on Chabot if he was made available.

A lot of things to address in a not very long post so I am going to post the key defensive metrics from last season :

CA/60 --> TC : 58.43 - KG : 60.32
SA/60 --> TC : 31.59 - KG : 31.54
xGA/60 --> TC : 2.91 - KG : 3.09
CF% --> TC : 51.75%; KG : 43.58%
SF% --> TC : 51.39%; KG : 43.39%
xGF% --> TC : 51.42% KG : 41.02%

If you can't see how much better Chabot was last year (despite you saying "Guhle was better defensively last season") then of course I can't do much. Guhle has progressed this season and will be a top pairing D-man but you might want to slow down a bit with these takes. Guhle is more comparable to Zub as of now.

Yes it doesn't make sense for the Habs to make that swap and I would agree that Guhle has more value due to age and contract (has another ELC year) but you don't have to make all this inaccurate statements.

Finally, how long Dach will still have top line PPG potential? He has 212 NHL games and never paced more than 0.66 PPG with 42% of his production on the PP. I mean, everything is possible but again, you're making a best case scenario as a given, like in Guhle's case.


ok but the point is :

Stutzle >>>> Dach
Sanderson >> Guhle
Chabot >> Matheson

It is not comparable in any way, shape or form despite all the homerism that inhabits you