Everyone except ottawa

How so?

Norris and Chabot are bad contracts.

I think pens win the trade but Ottawa will win a cup with this trade and one more to get a good goaltender.

Yep you are right, but they seem to not think so, but this doesn't fit their timeline at all though. Chychrun is really good and 2 firsts is a lot to give up for older guys (still really good of course, but not the right time).

There are also the nmc clauses and long contracts for older players, I guess not so much Malkin but the point still stands. Also not sure that Pitt would retain that much for so long either.

I do think it is a neat idea though.

Why is Ottawa trading 2 firsts for that package. All players they receive are good, but they are giving up much younger talent who at their best serve the same role. Ottawa get's 2 years of Letang and Malkin at most, and Karlsson is good but isn't what the Senators need. If anyone is adding picks, it would be the Penguins, since they are already making their team half as old with this trade.

Because Letang Malkin and Karlsson may be old but they're still very good players and they're retaining 4 million a year off Karlsson in the deal.

Break the trade down individually and tell me what you think each pens player is worth and then add it up and see if my trade is off.

In my opinion I have Ottawa overpaying by maybe the Boston 1st round but cause of so much salary retention for so many years I think it's balanced

It is a lot to give up...I agree. But it's the type of trade that would literally have them become contenders and win (if they got a good goalies)

Right now if they don't make a Trae like this where they sacrifice future for present...they're gonna throw away the last 7 years of rebuilding and end up with 2.generations of rebuild assets that dont overlap well.

Said in Morgan Freedman voice "Ottawa, in fact, did not win"

Lol explain how this is an L for Ottawa.

I give you it's overpay a bit. You wanna knock the Boston first down to a 2nd I could see Pittsburgh saying yes still even with the retention.

I'm sorry but Malkin would fetch a first and a young prospect atleast as would Letang....you guys see Karlsson is coming back at 6 million cap hit for the remainder of his contract and finishjng his career in Ottawa...

You seriously see this as a total L trade?

Ok Lets break it down,

Malking is signed for 2 years after this one and is 37 years old with a major injury history of his own, that does not get better with age. Why would the sens want the last 2 years of his career. His PPG pace has gone down year over year and that will not stop. Malkin could fetch a 1st and a prospect if he didn't have 2 more years on his deal, but he does, and that's a liability not an asset.

Letang and Karlsson experiment has proven they do not work on the same team, this was very predictable after Karlsson and Burns failed as well. Why would you want to import both of them when they failed together. That makes absolutely no sense. Plus Letang is signed for 4 more years with again, a major injury history. Getting ride of Norris and his injury issues doesn't really help if you are importing more. They may need to pay to get out of that deal in 2 years.

Karlsson at 40% retained, I am game for that, he hasn't played bad, but a system needs to be built around him to thrive and the sens can do that so he could work out there. He also has a bad injury history. A Karlsson and Chycrun trade as a foundation is something I would be open to.

So, you want the sens to give yup 2 younger d men, one of which is signed long term at a decent cap hit (you can think its bad all you want, its not), a 35 goal scorer with major injury issues but is young and may work past it, plus 2 firsts for players that were great in their prime but are past that now, and are one injury away from being done based on their past. You are literally making the pens younger and flush with more draft capital, while making the sens older, declining, giving them 2 players who don't work together, and depleting a prospect pool that is already near the bottom of the league. That is why its an L, no way around it

I think Chabot is not a good contract...sorry but for 8 mill hes gotta be way more solid than he is.

Okay let's do this then.

What does it cost to get only Karlsson?

Probably cych, the 2 firsts and then some.

I'd much rather bridge the gap with the rest of my trade and have to eat Letang for 4 years than Chabot and norris for 8 years

If we removed our first and gave them Boston first and our second and then used that first for a goalie trade.

Is that any better? Or you still don't like bringing in Letang and Malkin period.

So it cost more to get Karlsson now then what the pens paid? No, he is a great player but also has not worked there and is a contract dump regardless of retention, no GM would ever pay that much for him, and keep their job Chyc alone gets a 1st and a good prospect when traded, so you want the sens to trade at 3 first round picks and a prospect for Karlsson lol. Hell thats more than the sens initally got for him when he was 5 years younger and didn't have that anchor of a deal, it was pure luck that pick was 3rd overall. You dont seem to grasp the market, teams are not lining up for Karlsson, the pens have no leverage here, especially when you consider Karlsson no trade clause.

I'm fine with Chabot at 8. The teams defense goes to hell when hes not in the line up and he logs a ton of minutes, he might be over paid but by like a mil maybe, not enough to break your cap and not enough to be worry about.

I wouldn't touch Malkin or Letangs deals ever. They are too old with too many miles on them. Its pretty sad when Karlsson is the youngest in this deal. And again, Letang and Karlsson do not work together, why would you want to import that problem, they are both better on separate teams.

Chycrun will most likely be traded by the deadline, based on the rumors. I would love to unload Norris' contract due to his injury history but whats the point if you are just going to kneecap yourself with 2 past their prime players, and Chabot/Sanderson are the 1-2 punch on the blue for years, they just need another RHD to finally give them a real top 4 when you include Zub.

Did Karlsson not fetch more?

You're right I am out of touch with the market these days I used to be a superfan but haven't watched for a decade and started again this year.

And not gonna lie I was membering Karlsson fetching a good return both times but maybe I'm membering wrong


What about cych Norris and Chabot and our 2nd... removing the 2 firsts?

Good deal? Or you still flat out wouldn't want Letang and malkin cause of their injury history and age?

Yeah you must be remembering wrong. To the Sens the received a 1st, Norris, Demelo, Balcer and a conditional pick I belive. Demelo was traded for a 3rd and Balcer busted. Norris looked great but as we now know has a shoulder made of glass, and the sharks took a meteoric dive down the standing from the previous year to end up in the lottery which the sens get Stu at 3rd, that was pure luck.

Outside of a 1st and a low goalie prospect, the pens mostly dumped contracts for Karlsson.

Again, I do not want anything to do with Letang and Malkin due to age and injury history. They could be fine, but thats a massive risk, especially with Letangs contract length. Karlsson for Chycrun + i would do and the + would completely depend on how much retention they make, max a 2nd if they hold 40%, which they won't

That's totally fair. I legit thought the trade haul for Karlsson both times was a little bigger.

If that's the case I think cych Boston's first and like two 3rd rounders and a low line potential with high likelihood of making it to the NHL would do it even with the retention...maybe not 40% but I think we could get 25% retention if we made a fuss about it.

I still think that is an overpay unless they retained 50%. Karlsson has a no trade clause so they lose leverage and return for a trade, also if he wants to go home and no where else, then even getting Cych for him would be a win for the pens

Good discussion overall!

Well hopefully he handcuffs them and says please let me go play in Ottawa and we get him for pennys on the dollar.

I mean we're due some good karma after gifting Tarasenko right? That's how that works right? You gift players for good karma?

At least that's what I assume our GM thinks to not just say "no thanks we'll keep him for the year in that case thank you."

Either way I really would like to bring Karlsson back home especially if he wants to as well.

And yes good discussion bud, thank you for being civil and not jumping down my throat despite the fact that yes I did indeed have the trade at a massive overpay.

Cheers man