yeah, 3-4 years when your best forwards are almost 30! That's totally what a competitive window opening looks like.

you talk more about the leafs than you do the red wings, hey, i get it, ive seen the wings roster

Bruh, I've made you eat **** on claims about:

1. Holl not being a plug signing.

2. Your claim that "Detroit is right in the middle of their 22-27 year old window".

3. "Debrincat was a sign that Detroit is in win now mode!"

And you've abandoned ship on all of them.

I've further asked you what other plug options Detroit had at RHD in UFA over the summer, which you refused to answer multiple times.

Tell me more about how I'm only talking about the Leafs. You make **** arguments and when they get destroyed you move on to the next **** argument.

Or... and hear me out, I know this is hard to process when your team has had 1, maybe 2 good prospects in the last decade... That's when Larkin and DeBrincat are at the tail end of their prime, Edvinson has mpre experience and a major role, Raymond (the 30 goal scorer at 22 years old) and Seider (by far most difficult matchups in the salary cap era) are entering their prime, Kasper, Danielson, and (SHL Champion and Salming Trophy winner) Sandin Pellika have all made the team, and Cossa and Augustine should be vying for the starting gig. Crazy how having a top rated prospect pool makes your team's future bright, especially when they just missed the playoffs with a roster half full of plugs.

Three years from now:

Larkin - 30

...

...

...

Raymond - 25
Kasper - 23
Danielson - 22

Yeah bro. Very close to 30.

wow, the w

1- You said Yzerman only liked guy with compete, he over paid for holl who you yourself say i 'a plug' and thus doesnt have compete
2-yeah, like i said, they are literally in the middle of their window with this roster. reading is hard apparently
3-trading for a guy in his prime is literally a try and win now move, especially when you sign a bunch of vets to bolster your roster. This is literally what teams trying to compete do every single year

i didnt abandon anything, you just keep repeating things over and over again and throwing insults around like it makes your points better

So back to the original point, Yzerman would be all over a Marner trade if he could, especially since he clearly has the same amount of compete as the rest of his recent big moves

Debrinecat -28
Fabbri-30
Rassmussen-27

I do love how you had to include guys who havent even made the NHL yet or showed they can play at any sort of high level to try and prove your point though, bang up job!

Repeatedly fails to acknowledge the obvious difference between signing a plug while your kids develop and trading multiple assets for an overpaid winger who doesn't show up.



"I didn't abandon anything!" Reading is hard huh? You never answered this...





Again. "I didn't abandon anything!" Both myself and @HypotheticalImpossibility addressed this.





You conveniently declined to respond to either post.

Tell me more about how you don't make **** arguments and then abandon them when they fall apart.

RIP

It's truly weird that you:

1. Think Rasmussen and Fabbri are among Detroit's top forwards even right now. 8th and 10th respectively among Detroit's forwards in scoring.

2. Think Yzerman views Debrincat as a core player. This was already addressed, (Which you failed to reply to while claiming you don't abandon arguments) he declined to sign Debrincat to the 8 year deal that he wanted and only gave him four. Wonder why that is...

tell me again how Yzerman loves guys with compete yet keeps signing and trading for guys who dont have it, you've been dodging that since the start, and no "he's a plug' isnt an answer, especially when you insist that you arnt trying to win and simply not paying a guy way too much for way to long to not play for you i a better option.
So, here's a hot tip, If you dont want Marner, simply say "the wings dont do that trade" or "giving up more futures for another high paid winger doesnt make sense" dont go for a lazy, untrue fake narrative crap thing like "Yzerman only likes guys with compete" because clearly he doesnt.

well I figure if you're including guys who havent even sniffed the NHL it's only fair to include guys that wings fans have been talking up as amazing since they dawned the winged wheel. Hell, Rassmussen has been talked up so high by wings fans here you'd think he was your best player most nights.

"I don't abandon arguments!"

... Responded to one point and completely skipped over the two that had quotes showing arguments you abandoned.

Up until last season people were ****ing about Rasmussen incessantly, what the **** are you smoking.

Hell, @puzzledactuary just had a post today complaining about his whopping $3.2M contract. Sounds like top forward money to me!

wait, you mean Wings fans talked up a guy who wasnt very good and over estimated his abilities? You dont say!

he says, refusing to talk about the original argument

Yes, adding good young players to a team is a W. Dare I say they may even make it out of the first round more than once during their window.
To your points...
1) Being a plug is not an indicator of a player's compete. It means that you're a temporary fill for a roster, not a major piece going forward. Like David Kampf, for example. Holl is a plug and has compete. He's just not good.
2) The Wings have as many, if not more high-rated prospects in their system than good players on the roster. How is that "in the middle of a window," especially considering half of their good players are 23 and under?
3) Again, a bunch of plugs were added to the roster. Yzerman saw an opportunity to trade a late round pick that is less likely to amount to something, along with some spare parts, and fill a major need on the roster. He took it. The objective was to make the Wings less likely to get blown out on the regular, not to win the cup. Your argument is misframed.

DeBrincat will be in his prime.
Fabbri may not get a contract extension. Like the guy, but he's a bottom 6 scoring winger. Not a core piece.
Ras is a good complementary piece. Solid defensive-minded middle 6 winger. Plays a role, sure. Core piece, not so much.

Any more players we need to evaluate?

Dude I asked you two pages ago and multiple times after to name better plug options at RHD that were:

1. Cheap
2. Would agree to short term

You provided nothing. Don't come at me with this "Wont talk about the original argument" ****. You run like a **** any time you face opposition.

Rasmussen? The guy that most Wings fans were against drafting in the first place? The guy that was held up as the shining example of Ken Holland's draft failures? What are you on about?

What part of "They were ****ing about him incessantly up until last year" didn't click in your hollow head?

1- I was as big a Holl supporter as there was around here when he was a Leaf (IE I was aware he was simply an OK number 4 most of his tenure in toronto) and yet I was told constantly that he had no compete, that is why I presented them to your buddy there who has done nothing but talk him down and wont even say he has compete
2-prospects are prospects, and until they prove they can do anything at the NHL level, they are simply that. The wings dont have a McDavid or Mackinnon in the wings who is all but a lock to be a star and push a competitive window. If you cant even see the window, you cant say it's gonna open ever. So we go by what the wings are icing now.
3-no, a bunch of plugs dont need to be added to the roster. A guy like Perron? Kane? Sure, get a vet leader or two who has been there. Yzerman has added and over paid for Compher, Copp, Holl, Husso, and Chariot, and then added other vet guys in Ghost, Petry Maatta etc. He has spent a lot of money to be as good as he would be if he shopped in the bargain bin

Debrincat is already past the middle of his prime by average. Prime scoring age is 22-27. He is 27 in December.
Fabbri is there because I wasnt going to use guys who were already 28+ and there really isnt a lot a head of him on the roster as far as forwards go in that regard
And as I stated before Ras was there because half a dozen redwings fans got really mad at me last year when I said the exact same thing you did here because he was apparently gonna be a 2C beast just I wait.

Michael Rasmussen's HFDetroit Draft thread:

https://forums.hfboards.com/threads/at-9th-overall-the-detroit-red-wings-select-michael-rasmussen.2361557/

Just some highlights from page one, draft day comments:

"Fire Holland. This is unacceptable."

"rip bust"

"vilardi and liljegrin on the board, selects the the ent that can only score on the pp"

"underwhelming pick"

"Do not want"

"Hope these scouts know something that we don't, Because this was a terrible pick. Vilardi, Necas, Tippet, Liljegren any of them would've been better then Rasmussen."

"I legitimately think this pick will be laughed at forever. Worst case scenario. I hate this team so much."

"I thought Rassmussen was supposed to be more like a tenth or 11th pick. The Wings took him at ninth when Vilardi, who was supposed to be a 4th or 5th pick, not to mention a few others raked better were still available. Is this a new way of tanking? Or maybe he's a guy who interviews well. Or something."

"Holland can't even make an obvious pick. Just unbelievable. We are a ****ing laughing stock."

"But...why?"

Ya bro, Wings fans LOVE Rasmussen. Any other bull **** you're selling?

yes, I know, I was right about Rasmussen all along and the wings fans here were very very wrong about him. It's a theme

No hope after they're 27, bro. I agree.

Next year:

Matthews - 27
Marner - 27
Nylander - 28
Rielly - 30
Tavares - 34

OOF. So if Boston wipes them out here, I guess that's the window slamming shut on the Leafs core with one whole game won outside the 1st round. No Cup. No Cup appearance. No Conference Finals. Not even a Conference Finals appearance.

Ouch.