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Forum: Armchair-GMJan. 14, 2020 at 8:51 p.m.
Thread: Saad and Murphy for Nylander and Ceci
<div class="quote"><div class="quote_t">Quoting: <b>Aussie_Blackhawk</b></div><div>I stopped reading once I seen that there was retention involved for CHI. Thats a big red flag for us and would kill the deal regardless of the trade. That would be like paying Nylander $10m+ and he's not worth that. CHI would say No just as much as TOR fans on here would say no.

Ultimately this doesn't work for either side.</div></div>

Yeah this was more of a line up idea I had and decided to test the value to see if it could happen. I can agree that neither team would probably want to do this. I also don't think the Hawks have any interest in moving Murphy at all.

As for the retention, I personally don't see it being a huge problem to retain some salary on Saad (if they decide to move him) if they could vastly improve the return. But all that also depends on if Seabrook, Shaw, De Haan will play next year.
Forum: Armchair-GMJan. 14, 2020 at 2:56 p.m.
Thread: Saad and Murphy for Nylander and Ceci
<div class="quote"><div class="quote_t">Quoting: <b>MadLin27</b></div><div>I respectfully disagree. I don't have a link for you, but I distinctly remember reading a CHI fan on capfriendly saying something along the lines of "The more and more I watch Saad, the more and more I realize he isn't a top 6 forward."
Not saying I agree with that 100%.

Saad may play on Chi's top line, but that doesn't make him a "top line forward".

I am done with this thread, but I will sum up and give you some credit:

I would consider Saad a 2nd line winger. Not a top line guy on a competitive team however.
I'll remove the "fringe" and call Murphy a legit top 4 Dman. But again, not a top pairing Dman.

In my opinion Nylander is too much of an asset to trade for what I would call "very good accessory/supplementary pieces"
You can build a line with a Nylander. He drives his line. He actually creates plays for Matthews and Tavares, not as much vice versa. Anybody who watches the Leafs would know that.
You can't build an offense around Saad and can't build your D around Murphy.

So.. No disrespect to those Chicago players. I agree, they are good players, but I would never make that trade if I was the Leafs and I honestly believe for a soon to be rebuilding Chicago team, getting a 23 year old star forward for older, soon to be expiring contract, accessory pieces, is a no brainer. If you disagree that is fine. Its obvious we won't see eye to eye on this one</div></div>

I can see both sides to this. I never meant it as a serious "this should happen" trade, was mostly just for fun to see if this was enough value to get him. It doesn't make sense for the Hawks to give up players who fills roles that they need and retain that much salary either. And like I said in an earlier reply I got lost in the win now buzz around Toronto to forget how young their core still is. Their window isn't closing in two years anyway so they have no need to do this.

Also thinking about it how both Nylanders are mostly playmakers, using them around a center that's not a sniper might work against the Hawks too.
Forum: Armchair-GMJan. 14, 2020 at 2:50 p.m.
Thread: Saad and Murphy for Nylander and Ceci
<div class="quote"><div class="quote_t">Quoting: <b>ChiHawk</b></div><div>Saad is not a middle 6; he plays the top line. Murphy is not a "fringe" 2nd pairing, that is insane. This tells me you don't watch the Hawks and therefore don't know what either player brings to the ice outside of what you read on a stat sheet; a big mistake a lot of folks do on here trying to evaluate players.

Murphy is a top liner in Chicago and would be in toronto. Easily would become Toronto's best defensive defender.

Where have you heard Saad is "barely' a top 6 winger? He's the best winger behind Kane this year and yes, that includes better then Cat or Toews.

I watch a fair amount of hockey outside of the Hawks, unlike most fans on here, and know what Nylander is worth. I love the guy, even when a lot of Leafs fans were down on him, but realistically no way does chicago do this and retain $3.3m that is just poor cap management while creating two holes to plug one. Toronto plugs two holes and creates a big one. Doesn't make sense for either team.</div></div>

I agree that this isn't a great trade for the Hawks. It was never meant to be a "this should happen trade". I was just an idea I had about re-uniting the Nylanders and wanted to hear opinions on the value on this. But if you want to be serious, there are other much better options for the Hawks than this, probably for the Leafs too. Maybe a true lose-lose trade then, lol.
Forum: Armchair-GMJan. 14, 2020 at 2:47 p.m.
Thread: Saad and Murphy for Nylander and Ceci
<div class="quote"><div class="quote_t">Quoting: <b>BurgerBoss</b></div><div>CHI needs to add. A lot. Saad and Murphy are near 30 with only couple of years left on their contracts, Nylander's what, 23 with 5 years left. Also he's better than both of them. There's 0 incentive for TOR to even consider it.</div></div>

Fair enough. Maybe I got a bit lost in the buzz around "how will Toronto win this year with all the injuries" and forgot how young the core still is. This was maybe more set up for a team who's window to win is closing in the next two years. And I thought a 27yo Saad, consistent 50ponit 2-way winger and a 26yo defensive D-man would be worth a 23yo 60-70point offensive winger in that scenario. But with how young the Leafs still are I can certainly see why you'd want to keep the younger guy with more term.

Also I don't think this is necessarily even a great move for the Hawks either. Was just thinking about possible line ups and thought I'd try to see if I could make it work cap wise and value wise in a trade.