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Shanesaw9

Habs 2010
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May 10, 2020
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Forum: Armchair-GMYesterday at 12:06 a.m.
<div class="quote"><div class="quote_t">Quoting: <b>Campabee</b></div><div>I don't disagree with you, in fact I said I don't want to lose him but the truth is Poehling has outplayed him and we aren't likely going to move many of our wingers unless we go into rebuild mode which I don't think is the plan. If I had my choice I would keep both Lehkonen and Evans and move Hoffman and Armia but this was more of what I expect than what I want to happen.</div></div>

To be honest, if I was Gorton I'd be calling LA to see what they'd offer for Gallagher. He had great chemistry with Danault, Bergevin is there now and loves him to a fault, and Dustin Brown's contract is up so they have the space to add him.

If you want to make a spot for Caufield then trading the other undersized RW on the team makes sense. Of course it sucks to lose Gallagher leadership, but long term Gallagher's contract will be a problem.

They could also likely move Armia if they retain a bit of salary. $3.4M is too much but $2.5M is reasonable, a team that wants a big playoff RW that can kill penalties would be interested I'd think, Armia has been one of MTL's top performers in playoffs the last two seasons.

Move just one of those guys and you've got a spot for Evans at 4th line RW.

I think Lehkonen should definitely be traded, his value will never be higher as he is still an RFA. MTL doesn't need to pay him with Byron returning and guys like Poehling, Pitlick, Pezzeta, Dauphin, Ylonen etc. fighting for spots.

Edit:
There's also the fact that Caufield is terrible right now, he might not even be ready the NHL next season which would also open a spot for Evans. I don't know what's going on with Caufield but he needs to get his mojo back, might take an AHL stint to find it again.
Forum: Armchair-GMJan. 5 at 7:26 p.m.
Forum: Armchair-GMJan. 1 at 1:16 p.m.
Forum: Armchair-GMJan. 1 at 1:01 p.m.
<div class="quote"><div class="quote_t">Quoting: <b>coga16</b></div><div>Are you having compressions issues, they are Random Pro Scouts...that is what is RANDOM, they are just 5 dudes they decided to ask what do you think Price would get in a trade. I didnt think I had to spell it out that literal for you.

What does listing GMs who used to be scouts have anything to do with pro scouts never being involved in Trade talks. That is the most irrelevant thing you could post to try to make a point here. Show me 1 example that a Pro Scout, has that much say in a front office that they are negotiating trade value.

Once again I cant believe I had to explain this to you so literally. so lets go back to your comment...you will do anything to ignore these evaluations because they don't align with your opinion" ....do you not see the irony here once again</div></div>

Gonna have to block you if you keep this up fella, I can't keep going in circles with you. For the last time:

I said: "These are anonymous pro scouts."
You said: "They are random scouts, they arent head or pro scouting, they are just 5 random scouts."

I then repeated the fact that no, these are by definition pro scouts (you just tried to dispute that fact with your quote above?). They aren't necessarily totally random either, if you read the article or quote I provided, they were selected because they have spent significant time evaluating montreal players.

Lastly, I'm not claiming that these pro scouts are responsible when it comes to trades, and I never have made that claim. What I'm saying is these are people who are hired and work for NHL organizations and they specialize in evaluating talent at the NHL level. Yes they aren't the GM's making the calls, but they've worked there way into an NHL organization because they obviously have good hockey knowledge. I listed 6 examples of Eastern conference GM's for this reason - you are insinuating that pro scouts don't know what they are talking about when it comes to making trades, yet at least 37.5% of the GM's started as scouts... so that contradicts your claim.

Let's put it this way, when you work for an NHL organization come talk to me, until then I'm gonna side with the opinion of the pro scouts on this one.

Colorado paid a 1st + a prospect for one year of Kuemper (pending an extension).

You don't think a team will pay a 1st + a prospect for 4 years of Price at $5.25M? Actually you stated in your original post that you wouldn't even give up a 1st OR a prospect for Price, so why am I even asking again?
Forum: Armchair-GMJan. 1 at 12:42 p.m.
Forum: Armchair-GMJan. 1 at 12:40 p.m.
<div class="quote"><div class="quote_t">Quoting: <b>coga16</b></div><div>they are random scouts, they arent head or pro scouting, they are just 5 random scouts, their is no additional value of their opinions from one another, they are just random scouts.

are scouts telling the GM what they should give up in a trade? Give your head a shake man. Scouts say they like players, the GM takes that into consideration, they are the ones that make sure the cap and value makes sense, scouts are not in trade talks. Do you understand how minimal importance a scout has a terms of trade framework. They give analysis on the player, their skating, their IQ, their shot, their positioning etc, they arent saying Joe you should give up a 1sst and prospect for this player, I think hes worth that much.</div></div>

I don't think you understand what a pro scout is. A pro scout is someone who evaluates players in the NHL. These aren't random scouts, these are pro scouts... by definition, I have no idea why you are even trying to dispute this fact.

"Five pro scouts who have watched the Canadiens extensively this season agreed to anonymously share their perception of some of those players with The Athletic and what their value on the market might represent."

These are just a few GM's who started as scouts:
- Bergevin
- Dorion
- Hextall
- Dubas
- Benning
- McClellan

That's at least 6 of the 16 eastern conference GM's this season. So in this sample at least 37.5% of GM's started as scouts. Your claim that scouts are totally dissociated from trade evaluations is false - how could it not be when almost half of the GM's in the league were once scouts? Yes they are not the GM's making the final call, but their opinions should still be respected. I for one would put more stock into their evaluations than anyone else's on this site.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.allaboutthejersey.com/platform/amp/2021/9/6/22656442/where-did-32-nhl-general-managers-come-from-part-2-success-before-management
Forum: Armchair-GMJan. 1 at 12:14 p.m.
Forum: Armchair-GMJan. 1 at 12:09 p.m.
<div class="quote"><div class="quote_t">Quoting: <b>coga16</b></div><div>And there is the key factor you are missing...Random Scouts. They are scouts that have 0 weight in terms of a team or a front office trading for or the value of said player, or they have no weight in a front offices plan in terms of cap space management. Scouts have 0 say in trade talk framework. Its all fine and dandy to say scouts believe teams want Price and he could fetch that value, but they dont work in the front office in trade talks. These are probably just montreal scouts that Lebrun interviewed bc this is his story and he was pushing this narrative of Price trade interest.</div></div>

Random scouts? No, these are anonymous pro scouts.

Pro scouts have zero weight in terms of front office plans? Are you serious lol... the job of pro scouts it's to evaluate players and make recommendations to their GM. How many GM's in the league do you think started out as pro scouts? You think these scouts just live with their heads in the sand and don't think about the management side of things? Oh and what's worse is you're insinuating that you, an armchair GM'r like the rest of us, knows more than a pro scout because apparently pro scouts don't have a clue when it comes to managing a team. Just stop and think about that for a second, self reflect on it.

Lastly, you assuming these are just montreal scouts interviewd by LeBrun (that isn't the case) shows your clear bias, you will do anything to ignore these evaluations because they don't align with your opinion.
Forum: Armchair-GMJan. 1 at 12:02 p.m.
Forum: Armchair-GMJan. 1 at 11:56 a.m.
<div class="quote"><div class="quote_t">Quoting: <b>palhal</b></div><div>Avs are contenders with Kuemper as their goalie. No team is gonna trade for Price, so no one knows what he is going to be this year, never mind the following years later.
Best thing for Habs if they want to trade him, first is getting him to play this season. Then even at that he's unlikely to be tradable till the summer.
Price though he has NMC, can be treated somewhat as a UFA. 50% retention and any team that wants him (and Price agrees to) can have him. There will be so few bidders, his trade value just might be a third rounder.</div></div>

Why would the habs trade Price for a 3rd rounder? That's really just an absurd comment. The guy basically beat the leafs single handedly last season.

That's the part I just don't get about Avs fans backlash against this move. To me, Carey Price almost guarantees that team a Stanley Cup and they're scared about giving up a projected 2nd pairing D prospect and a pick (in hindsight Kuemper could likely be flipped for another asset, so the 1st included here is an overpayment... but regardless, <a href="/users/coga16" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer noopener">@coga16</a> "wouldn't trade even one of those assets for Price").

What I don't get is people are acting like this is a biased opinion from a habs fan. This is the opinion of 5 anonymous pro scouts across the league, interviewed by respected journalists not just some random blog.

It's plain as day said there's a definite market for Price and the expected return would be a 1st and a prospect if the habs retained salary. This is said by people working in the NHL... not some commenter on CapFriendly.
Forum: Armchair-GMDec. 17, 2021 at 10:46 a.m.
Forum: Armchair-GMDec. 6, 2021 at 3:58 p.m.
I agree (sort of - I think), there is no need to go full rebuild and blow everything up otherwise you'll end up like OTT, BUF, or even EDM who was bad for a long time before they got McDavid.

1. Sell Chiarot.
- This is a must, they need cap space for next year and Guhle looks like he could be an internal replacement.

2. Sell the valuable depth.
- For me, this is Lehkonen and Jake Allen. Lehkonen could get a 2nd round pick from a contender if the habs retain salary, his RFA status is a bonus for any team trading him since they will keep his rights. Habs already have too many wingers and Byron is coming back, if they can get a 2nd for Lehkonen and not have to resign him next year do it. As for Allen, I think they could also get a 2nd round pick and clear out salary for next year. The team isn't good enough to justify paying &gt; $13M in goaltending, the habs either live or die with price anyways so sign any cheap backup or play Primeau more next season.

3. Sell the pending UFA's.
- Trade Kulak, Perreault, Wideman, Paquette, etc. for late picks (4 - 7).

4. Lottery Pick
- Odds are the habs get a lottery pick this season. The question for me then becomes do they trade it for Lafreniere (might speed up the rebuild?).

5. Hockey Trades (only if it makes sense).
- Makes some moves to reshape this roster. For me this involves moving a LW (Hoffman, Toffoli, Drouin - if they acquire Laffy) and/or a RW (Armia, Gallagher, Anderson) which will allow them to reinvest salary into another area of need (Center and RD). Then I'd also consider trading Petry, only if Gorton could reverse the trade he made with the Jets. Jets fleeced him for Pionk + a 1st for Trouba... can he trade Petry for a young NHL RHD + a pick?