Jul 3, 2017
San Jose Sharks
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<div class="quote"><div class="quote_t">Quoting: <b>linehan10</b></div><div>Kuznetsov now had four seasons under his belt, and skates with arguably the greatest sniper ever. Only this year did he record 80 points, but he has still not yet recorded 85. He also skated behind Backstrom for a few years - he didn't record 80 points then either. Bias or not, its arrogant to say Barzal isn't a star, if not a superstar. To rank him behind Getzlaf? Well, thats just ludicrous.</div></div>
Getzlaf, who had 61 points in 56 games last year, and had a better point/game number than Barzal. Getzlaf, who 875 points in 917 games in his NHL career. Getzlaf, who has won a Stanley Cup. Getzlaf, who has won TWO Olympic Gold Medals.
Yeah, Barzal is SO much better.
Let me know how things are going when Barzal has 50 points at the end of the year. I never said he wasn't a good player, and he will be a superstar in this league.
You act like offensive numbers are the only thing that matter. Who gave up the most goals last year? Oh, the Islanders. So he got 85 points last year. Great. Good for him. What else did he do? Well, he was a +1, so he was on the ice for a lot of goals against then, if he was on the ice for 85+ goals. That's simple math. He also ONLY won 42% of his faceoffs. Okay, the kid can put pucks in the net. He obviously has a lot of other things to work on. Settle down.
<div class="quote"><div class="quote_t">Quoting: <b>linehan10</b></div><div>give me barzal over kuzy, getzlaf, eichel, and a bunch of others any day. Simple phrase: if you don't perform as well as a certain player, you're not better than that player</div></div>
Okay, so you're saying you want a player who had a bunch of points, looked honestly below average in his own zone, and couldn't help his team make the playoffs over Evgeni Kuznetsov, who really should have won the Conn Smythe this year?
Barzal could lead the NHL in scoring. That doesn't mean he's the best player. FACT. Connor McDavid lead the league in scoring. He didn't win the Hart. You know who once won the Art Ross? Jamie Benn. Would you call him the best player in the league? Hell no. He's a great player, don't get me wrong. Probably on of the top 10 wingers in the league right now. But he is NOT the best player in the league.
Get a grip and lose your hometown bias towards Barzal. Prove to me he can play at that elite level without a superstar ahead of him on the depth chart, and for more than just one year.
Barzal is a good player, and he will probably be a great player for a long time. But settle down. He has a lot to prove yet.
<div class="quote"><div class="quote_t">Quoting: <b>DragonRaptorHybrid</b></div><div>This example would work better if Tippett weren't still CHL-eligible. He gets 9 games to prove himself for Florida, and, if he doesn't, he's going back to Missisauga and may or may not play for Springfield at the tail end of the year.
I would argue they don't necessarily need to have their younger players start immediately with the Panthers. Springfield's been a crap team for the past couple of years, and re-vamping their farm system would probably help in terms of prospect development. Waiver eligibility's also an important consideration. Borgström and Malgin both still have waiver exemption and probably will start the year with Springfield. Tippett's likely playing with Missisauga, and Vatrano has a spot on the roster, methinks, on the 3rd line with McCann and McGinn. Next year, though, Haley, MacKenzie, McGinn, and Brouwer's contracts are all up, and the Panthers might promote more young players at that time.</div></div>
All strong points.
<div class="quote"><div class="quote_t">Quoting: <b>Icegirl</b></div><div>While it's true that he could go to the minors, the fact that it's a one-way makes me think he'll prolly be with the big club. If the kids are ready to go, then they might not have more to show in the minors, too. As a guy on Twitter said, coaches will bench rookies who do the wrong thing by mistake in favor of veterans who do the wrong thing on purpose. It's a cultural thing.</div></div>
True, and I'm not saying that won't happen. But I don't see the fact that the contract is one-way makes a big difference. So they are going to pay him $850,000 no matter what. If he is the 17th best forward in the organization, there is no reason why he should be on the NHL roster. I agree that coaches generally pull kids out when they make a couple bad mistakes, but that doesn't mean that Brouwer won't start in the AHL or the kids will be bad enough to get benched for Brouwer.
My point, though, was this was a good signing because you either get a good fourth line player in Brouwer, or you get organizational depth because you can send him to the minors and bring him back whenever you want.
Let's say Owen Tippett makes the team out of camp and has ten bad games in his own zone. Well, you probably want him to play a lot to learn and grow. Maybe he doesn't have anything left to prove offensively in the AHL. He obviously isn't up to par defensively for the NHL. You tell him go play in the AHL for a couple of weeks to work on your defensive game, while we bring up a guy we know can play in all three zones. Give the kid a couple games to correct some of his bad habits, bring him back up, and send the veteran back down. You can't afford to give away games to develop aspects of young players games. If you give Owen Tippett a month to correct his mistakes at the NHL level, you could end up missing the playoffs by one point again.
Just an example. Not trying to rag on Tippett or any of the young guys. It's a cut throat world in the NHL, and if you aren't ready, you need to keep your feet moving. If the Panthers have someone that can play a few games to help the kids learn and grow more, that's good. If he plays 76 games in the AHL this year, no big deal.
Look at Kevin Labanc of the Sharks last season. He had a bad couple of weeks. He went down the AHL, played a few games, and then came back up and tore up the rest of the season. He still has some things to work on, but the fact that he could take advantage of a lesser league for 8 games taught him some better habits, and now he will likely be a top 6 forward for the Sharks this season.
<div class="quote"><div class="quote_t">Quoting: <b>Icegirl</b></div><div>I voted no b/c even though it's a good signing in a vacuum, it doesn't make sense for a team like FLA. They need to find slots for guys like Tippett, Malgin, Borgstrom, and Vatrano, and they already have Haley and MacKenzie taking up space. This also probably eliminates Letestu's chance at a contract. On a team with poor forward depth, this signing would be perfect, but for FLA, it's not a good choice.</div></div>
I agree with you that the kids need to start finding their place on the Panthers' NHL squad. I would argue, however, that if they don't think the kids are responsible enough, why throw them in a situation where they will learn bad habits and hurt the team's chances for success? Would it not be better to give the kids more time in the minors, where they can learn to play a complete game, and come up when they are ready?
On the other hand, what will happen if the kids are ready to play (and I would imagine they will get a really good chance to show it), then the Panthers either trade Brouwer, or they send him to the AHL. They would have to waive him, but if no one claims him, his whole cap hit would be gone, and it wouldn't really matter if they had signed him. Plus, they would be able to bring a veteran guy up in case of injury or need.
I see this as a win-win. An aging veteran scored a guaranteed contract, and the Panthers grabbed at best a decent depth piece, and at worst a good veteran presence for their kids in the AHL.
<div class="quote"><div class="quote_t">Quoting: <b>Claesson4Norris</b></div><div>I'd probably agree that SJ wouldn't be super into trading Hertl, but i don't think its fair to say MD95 had a bad season. Even with the really bad start in Ottawa, he still put up 27 goals and nearly 60 points.</div></div>
We're having the same argument that should have been had in Ottawa before the Matt Duchene trade. They traded a bunch of young futures and Kyle Turris for Matt Duchene. The question is, how much better is Duchene than Turris? On the outside, not much better. Once you start getting down into the detail, Duchene is a better player.
So is Duchene a better player than Tomas Hertl? The short answer is yes, but how much better? If I'm the Sharks, I want Duchene, but not at the cost of Hertl. Doing the Duchene-for-Hertl deal makes the team a lot better, but once you consider taking away Hertl from the Sharks, how much better did they really get? I'll give you Tierney, Donskoi, etc. Honesly, I want Duchene to play WITH Hertl. Same line. Hertl-Couture-Duchene. Ottawa should want the futures, not the players that are in their primes right now. They should want the John Norris or Ryan Merkley or the Dylan Gambrell. They can get more of those, save more money, and be even better in 3-5 years.
Blow the whole thing up. The problem is that Ottawa doesn't want to admit they are bad, they don't want to rebuild. They are losing money, and a rebuild will only drive fans away more. But in order for them to actually have a decent future, they need to trade everything and build it back up. Trade Duchene for a bunch of picks and prospects, not Tomas Hertl. Trade Erik Karlsson (without Bobby Ryan) for the three best prospects you can get out of someone and a couple of picks. Trade Bobby Ryan for another bad contract and a prospect. Trade Mark Stone for a boatload of talent you won't see until after 2020, but will make the team better than it is now.
They got to goalie prospect from Pittsburgh. They have a solid defensive prospect. And they have a couple decent forwards in the development stage. Add more. Look at what the Lightning did by adding Stamkos, Kucherov, Johnson, Point, Killorn, Palat, Droiun, etc. as they rebuilt the entire team. They used that to build up their defense around Victor Hedman. Do it right and tear the whole team down, be bad for two years, and make this team the right way.
I'm not saying Duchene was garbage last year, but it wasn't a "good" year by his standards. You're trying to trade him at his lowest value. He looks like a bad influence by being on two horrible teams in a row, and he didn't necessarily blow things up like MacKinnon did last year after Duchene left. He also only has a year on his deal. My point is his value is really low right now, that's all.