Leaf owners Bell and Rogers aren't worried about paying the remaining 10.6m on Horton's contract. Want money, they raise our telecom rates. The trade is really Tanev for Liljegren, I doubt if the Leafs do that. Also added that cap for this year may not be the best for the Leafs. And having 4.4m in cap next year might be more important to the Leafs than Tanev.
Is Spezza rarely the mentor you want?

A Tanev for Liljegren makes zero sense from a Leafs perspective. The huge weakness that you're using to justify this cost is the need for top pairing right handed defenceman. You don't trade exactly that for an older version with zero upside. (Tanev is what he is, it won't get better. Don't get me wrong its very valuable, but Liljegren is exactly what Toronto needs 2-3 years from now and Tanev could be declining by then due to injuries and just getting older.)

That is the only reason that matters in the arguement of how much Tanev is worth. He's worth a lot and I'd consider moving Sandin for Tanev but definitely not Liljegren.

too many salaries retained. can only have 3 max

As much as that is probably true, getting another team to eat that money is always better than doing it yourself. And Tanevs caphit proposed here is 2.225 with 50% retained for this and next year, not 4.4.
No matter how rich the team is and can happily afford to pay a player to be injured until they retire, there is also the worry that Horton could manage to pass the physical and is cleared to play, thus no longer being eligible to be on the LTIR for cap relief. If that happens, the Leafs are on the hook for his full cap hit, and very few teams are going to take him without serious compensation in return. Every GM knows the Leafs are in serious cap trouble going forward with AM, MM, KK, CC and Gardiner all needing new contracts next summer with Nylander needing his contract this summer.


No, Spezza is not the mentor off the ice, but he is still decent enough on the ice that he is an offensive upgrade over just about anyone else up the middle. And for a single year, wouldn't be that big of a concern if he's poor-ish in the dressing room as long as he can help transition Pettersson to the middle for 2019/20 and put up some points. The Canucks lost ~140pts with the departure of the Sedins and Vanek... Need to replace those points somehow, and all that load on rookies is a lot to ask.



Would you not say Tanev would have been exactly what the Leafs needed in the Boston series this spring? The lack of a stabilizing defensive guy on that top pairing cost the leafs that series, imho.
Liljegren projects to be a top pairing guy, but that could be 2-3+more years away, or never. Jack Johnson was projected to be an Elite #1 in the NHL, he's never gotten there and has always been more of a complementary/filler top4 guy.

With Tanev, you get a very defensively sound player that will stabilize and fill a major hole on the top pairing with Rielly, giving the leaf the chance to win now for a manageable cap hit going into 19/20. You are right though,
Hutton is an RFA and in the right system could easily be a top4 guy and will probably take a pay cut on his next contract unless he blows up this season. He actually had a decent year to start 2017/18, but then was the victim of poor deployment and pairings which slid him down the depth chart to a healthy scratch. Hutton has been a victim of a terrible coach that ran his confidence into the ground in Willy.D, and a coach who was forced to play him with Gudbranson due to injury issues, castrating his play and exaggerating his weaknesses. He was on the positive side of all of the analytics while playing with Tanev at the start of the season.

Like a Lot of Leafs fans who keep seeing Tanev for Liljegren trade scenarios, most focus on basically a straight up trade. I'm proposing the Leafs get Tanev, a project with a high potential upside in Hutton and getting out from under a potential cap nightmare should Horton pass his physical. The latter is a calculated risk that has ramifications that would likely result in the loss of a player like Liljegren and/or more if realized.

Sandin might be a better option for the trade, but that would also require another piece or 2 back (2nd/3rd rounder and/or another B-level prospect for the farm) for 2 roster D and eating Horton's salary and potential to become a cap nightmare. What would you propose as a trade scenario with Sandin as the main piece coming back?

Thanks tips. I am well aware of the 3 limit, these are trade options that need refining... Nothing is set in stone.
Maybe make suggestions vs pointing out the obvious.

Sutter can be straight up for Spezza since he is a 2+mil cap relief trade anyways.
Baertschi needs to be retained to work for the caps going forward, similar to the Tanev deal. But something like Hutton and taking Horton back might be enough to get Sandin, and Tanev could get dealt elsewhere without retained salary. Curious to hear what LoganOllivier has to say about that.

Many of your points are misguided.

Horton's back is so bad, he may not be able to walk in a couple of years let a lone pass a physical. When he got hurt in his first year in Columbus they knew it was a career ending injury but the contract wasn't insured so instead of retiring Horton just stays on the payroll until his contract is up, at which point he'll officially retire. Much like Pronger and Marc Savard had to do. So Horton's contract isn't a problem, its actually an awesome loophole the team used to remove other bad contracts.

Now onto your words about Tanev.

Would he have been exactly what TO could have used against Boston? Absolutely! Personally I love Tanev and want him on the team, however not at any cost.

There are a lot of ways Vancouver can get Tanev to TO but it won't involve either of Liljegren or Nylander. Nylander because he's way better than Tanev and not Liljegren because he's a right handed defenceman who should have went much higher in his draft year.

I used Sandin because while he looks pretty talented he's left handed and the Leafs have a lot of depth on the left side.

The poster was just telling you, stop being an **** hole

Fair enough. I read a couple of articles and when they talked about him failing his physicals, they didn't really give off the scope of the problem being so bad that he might not be able to walk in a few years. One also sounded surprised and disappointed he failed his medical. And I know his contract isn't a cap problem currently, and given what you just shared now wont be, but I'm sure paying a guy 8.1mil over the next two years is money they might like to get off the books even if it has no impact on the cap.


Again, you are focusing strictly on it being *Tanev for Liljegren,* which is not what I offered. There is a scenario where Tanev and another piece(s) will bring back Liljegren or Nylander Sure, drop Horton from the deal and you have Tanev and Hutton for Liljegren... RHD are gold in the NHL, so it's not s surprise that a lot of teams will covet high-quality RHD prospects.


Do you think a Sandin for Tanev, straight up, would be a workable deal?

I understood the deal that brought Horton to TO, but i wasn't fully aware of the scope of the injury as i said to Logan.
I stand corrected on that account.


I'm not saying Tanev would have stopped any goals simply by his presence on the ice or on the bench. However, to say he would not have had a positive impact on at least one of the 4 poor outcomes in that series is also laughable. He is not a plugger as much as a lot of Leafs fans like to deminish his value simply because he is on the Canucks.
A big part of the reason why so many trade scenarios involve TO and Liljegren is because he fills a propect hole that is not as easily found on other teams who have less use for a player like Tanev. As much as you might not like the trade ideas floated out there, there are only a few other teams close enough to need a guy like Tanev to maybe be the piece that takes them to the next level or even that puts them over the top. Those teams become even fewer when looking at positional needs for the Canucks in return. Yes, Tanev could probably be easily traded to a number of teams for young forwards, but forwards are not organizational needs for the canucks right now. They have a good stable of young forward prospects and players and too many roaster forwards as it is. If they are going to trade Tanev, they want a D-prospect back as the main piece. Toronto is one of the few teams that need a player like Tanev now, and have a bunch of quality D-prospects in the system since most of the highend forward prospects have already hit.


if they are unable to sign key young players due to not having enough cap space, then that is a cap problem. Infact thats pretty much the definitiion of a cap problem. Sure it can be because of having a ton of crap contracts, buyouts and players burried in the minors, but a team can also be a victim of it's own success. Yes they can trade those or other players, but return on them may not be as high as it could be if you are up against a shrewd GM... There is also the fact that the players you move out and/or get back, dramatically change the makeup of the team causing a step back.
Saying "they can always trade one" as if it's a magic solution to making the team better is also pretty laughable.

#triggered

Laughable? Don't think you understand the cap. Let's imagine the Leafs have cap issues, because they have signed to some players to big by deserved contracts and then more players like Grundstrom, Dermot and Liljegren deserve raises that but the Leafs over the cap. Yes it is very possible the Leafs would have to make a trade. But as I wrote, having too many good players that are tradable is not a problem. Admitting if Marner, Nylander or Matthews are not living up to their contracts then that is a problem getting rid of cap of overpriced players. But that's the nature of cap league. Leafs couldn't afford JVR and Bozak so they left as UFAs, but the Leafs took that 11.75m that two players received and spent on one player the 11m Tavares.
Maybe that's a good reason to keep Liljegren and his 900,000 salary instead of the 4.4, Tanev it helps the Leafs cap. At least Leafs would get cap relief when Tanev is on IR
Fact is that Leafs are still in development mode with their roster this year. Johnston and Kapanen, Dermot, Borgman maybe Ozhignov and Sparks are rookies or near rookies. To think the Leafs have to win in all now when their two of best players Matthews and Marner are entering a third year, is just false.
I just wish Canucks fans could have the ingenuity to trade Tanev to another team to show his value, but again it seems to the Leafs or nothing. If that's the case (in the real NHL), the Leafs have all the leverage in making a deal. It's similar to the Karlsson of Ottawa. If EK only want to sign with Tampa, so Sens don't have much trade leverage in getting a sign and trade done with Tampa

I understand the cap just fine. Yes having tradable assets is never a bad thing, but having to trade key assets to make room for contracts of other key assets does not always generate positive results.
My point was trades are not always instantaneous improvements for either team, especially if they are moving out key younger pieces. Yeah, you might get a great return for one of those key younger players, but those returns might be 1-3years away from having a big impact, or the key roster players do not add value on the ice like hoped. Trades do not always work out, and not every team gets better as a result of a trade is all I was staying.




See above.

No kidding? Wow. The leafs got Tavares? When did this happen?


RTFD I posted, 50% retained, not a 4.4 cap hit. But you are right, 900k<2.2mil... But Liljegren might be a miss, or a shadow of expectations considering he hasn't played a NHL game yet. How did Tyler Biggs work out for the Leafs, considering they moved up in the draft to specifically take him.



If they do not start winning soon, they will have a lot of expensive young talent locked up and not a lot of room to make the moves needed to put them over the top. If you look at the true dynasties, Both Kane and Toews were in their 3rd year and Keith and Seabrook were in their 5th years when they won the cup for the first time; Sid, Letang, Malkin and Fleury were in their 3rd years and lost in the finals and won in their 4th. Doughty and Quick were basically both in their 4th years and 5th years respectively. There are lots of teams who build great rosters year after year and fail to win or take almost 12 years to win *cough*CAPS*cough* or even never do.


Maybe they do, maybe Canucks fans have Tunnel-vision and are fixated on Liljegren. I think a Liljegren-Juolevi pairing would make an amazing potential #1a pairing in a few years, with Hughes-Woo #1b pairing for the Canucks.

Are there other prospects on other teams that could fit the same bill, sure. But virtually no other team has as good of a fit for Tanev in terms of organizational need, now, and a high-end prospect that is not already a major part of the team and future. Most other options would see MORE pieces of lower quality coming back because of lack of depth with that trading partner. But by all means, show me where you think Taneve would work and there would net a quality return?

As much as you are tired of that trade scenario, suggest a better one rather than ***** about it. :P

There, how about that?

.
Since you do not seem to recognize any of the other teams in the NHL besides the Leafs and Canucks, it would be rather futile to try to instruct you about 29 other squads. Also, you don't seem to even appreciate what the Leafs needs are, that makes you knowledgable of just one team in the NHL at most. Your best option would be a Vancouver to Vancouver trade

I'd take that in a second! If Liljegren was left handed I'd consider trading him for Tanev but as we've discussed at length, Right handers are gold.

WTF are you even talking about?
You really struggle with reading comprehension, don't you?
First and repeatedly you were too dense/ignorant to notice 50% retained on the original trade, and yet kept banging away on a "4.4 caphit" like some cantankerous old ******* repeating the same tire "back in my day..." story over and over again. And now you are unable to see that I completely removed the Leafs from my trade list.
So you are right, I am unable to see beyond two teams despite having multiple trading partners listed. Funny how you are the only one in here who doesn't get it.
I will continue to enjoy watching the Leafs get bounced in the first round. Always fun watching Boston trounce the compost just to piss off insipid Leafs fans like yourself.

So that deal under values then.... What about Sandin and a 2nd or 3rd for Tanev?

I'd probably do that, but not until after the preseason and a couple months of playing time. I think the Leafs defence is underrated and some of the young guys coming in are looking like they may be serviceable.