Forums/Washington Capitals

Wilson is an IDIOT - 12 games

Oct 2, 2018 at 1:06
#76
Joined: May 2018
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Quoting: Capitalfail67
below average? .75 ppg in the playoffs is average? again in the past he was a 4th line guy who player 5-8 minutes. realistically he should played In Hershey and developed his skills then came up but he never got a chance to do this. ask yourself this question if wilson get 45-50 points and caps win another cup and he gets 15-18 points in the playoffs is it worth it then?


1) Wilson has never been a scorer, even in junior he was a secondary player
2) Fernando Pisani scored 14 goals and 18 points in the 2006 playoffs. Those numbers are better than Wilson's and he did it playing 3rd line in those playoffs. He then was signed to a 4 year 10 million dollar contract and that contract was bad. It was bad 20 games into the next season and got worse every year. Why? Because pretty much every team has a better player making less money who can do the roll that guy offers.

Wilson hits lots, so does Matt Martin, Cal Clutterbuck etc all make significantly less than Martin
Wilson scored at around .5 points a game over a small sample size on the top line. It would not surprise me if I could find 31 players (1 for each team) who have better stats and make less money than Wilson.

That is why its bad, even if he scores 50 points this season (which he will be out of the lineup for the next 10 games or longer) its still a bad contract. If he moves down the lineup because someone shows better with the star players (Which I don't think is a stretch but is the likely scenario) then you'll have 5 million + playing on the 3rd line scoring around 20 points a season.

If Wilson scores 20+ goals and adds 50+ points this season, I'll completely admit I am wrong. Its just not going to happen.
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Oct 2, 2018 at 2:28
#77
Joined: Jun 2018
Posts: 945
Likes: 247
Quoting: LoganOllivier
Nothing as a player he says, LOL!!!!!

Look dude, I understand that you love your players, Washington has a lot of really good players. I am not taking anything away from them, but saying Kuznetsov is better than Matthews is just silly. He didn't win the Con Smythe, because Ovie willed the caps to victory. He lead the team and gave everything he had to win and it was well deserved. If TO wins the cup, (Nothing is guaranteed) Matthews will be at the heart of that, because he is the best player in Toronto. Everyone who watches hockey knows this, Tavares is of course amazing and Marner and Nylander are also extremely great players but Matthews can just do stuff they can't. He's a 20 year 6'3" 220 pound monster who can skate better than most. I give it a month before you lower your head and realize that despite Kuznetsov being as good as he is, he just isn't at Matthews level. THE KID IS 20 and is already a top 5 centre in the league.

Be proud of the cup you guys won, personally, I was thrilled to see them win. Just don't let yourself get silly, every year a team wins the cup and almost every year the team that wins it makes a lot of bad decisions contract wise after they win. Rewarding guys for what they did but failing to see that, they are highly unlikely to ever reach that level again. (Wilson is not worth 5 million dollars, literally everyone outside of Washington knows this)

So instead of jumping on Matthews, which is hilarious all in itself, just look at what he offers objectively. Take your emotions out of it, we all get it you love the guy, and just look at what he actually brings to the table and see what others making similar money are making or what similar players to Wilson are making. If you do that, its a terrible contract because Wilson is a bottom 6 grinder, they don't deserve more than 2 million.


ovi shouldn't have gotten the conn, he only got it because name recognition. Kinda like Crosby in 2016. In 2016 kessel was much more deserving but media likes Crosby a lot more so sid got it. In 2018 I would have put holtby and kuzy both over ovi but the media doesn't always go with who deserves it most so ovi got it instead.
Oct 2, 2018 at 2:31
#78
Joined: May 2018
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Quoting: awesome
ovi shouldn't have gotten the conn, he only got it because name recognition. Kinda like Crosby in 2016. In 2016 kessel was much more deserving but media likes Crosby a lot more so sid got it. In 2018 I would have put holtby and kuzy both over ovi but the media doesn't always go with who deserves it most so ovi got it instead.


Clearly you are a fair weather hockey fan, who doesn't know much about how the game is played. Scoring the most points does not make you the MVP, being the best player all over the ice and leading your team to the cup is the MVP. Ovie back checked like he never had before, he scored huge goals when they needed it and he never let up at all. He was a monster all over the ice and his desire to win spread across the rest of the team. That's why he was the MVP, same as Crosby was. Sure Kessel scored a bunch but he's a soft player who didn't have any tough assignments and played on the 3rd line, and got top PP time on the leagues best powerplay. Kessel is a great player but he isn't a leader nor is he the reason why they won the cup. Crosby was, he out played the other teams best player every single series.
Oct 2, 2018 at 2:40
#79
Joined: Jun 2018
Posts: 945
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Quoting: LoganOllivier
Clearly you are a fair weather hockey fan, who doesn't know much about how the game is played. Scoring the most points does not make you the MVP, being the best player all over the ice and leading your team to the cup is the MVP. Ovie back checked like he never had before, he scored huge goals when they needed it and he never let up at all. He was a monster all over the ice and his desire to win spread across the rest of the team. That's why he was the MVP, same as Crosby was. Sure Kessel scored a bunch but he's a soft player who didn't have any tough assignments and played on the 3rd line, and got top PP time on the leagues best powerplay. Kessel is a great player but he isn't a leader nor is he the reason why they won the cup. Crosby was, he out played the other teams best player every single series.


ovi backchecking for the first time in his life doesn't earn him it, that should be expected. The fair weather fan would be the one giving a guy the trophy because he is the most well known or liked the best(and using the leadership excuse, which isn't easily quantifiable at all so they get away with it). Kuzy scored some huge goals during their run, holtby made some even bigger saves. I would put ovi third.
Oct 2, 2018 at 3:17
#80
Joined: May 2018
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Quoting: awesome
ovi backchecking for the first time in his life doesn't earn him it, that should be expected. The fair weather fan would be the one giving a guy the trophy because he is the most well known or liked the best(and using the leadership excuse, which isn't easily quantifiable at all so they get away with it). Kuzy scored some huge goals during their run, holtby made some even bigger saves. I would put ovi third.


Great, I don't care. Honeslty the whole point here is Wilson's contract is terrible and he is doing exactly what I said he would. Make way too much money and feel the need to do more to prove he's worth it and get suspended. Now watch whoever plays the first 10 games or whatever with the top line, steal the position from Wilson and immediately his contract is the worst in the NHL. If he isn't on the top line, its wasted money and finding someone who will score more points and add more to that line will not be hard to do. Vrana is 100 times the player Wilson is, I give it a handful of games before Washington realizes this as well.
Oct 3, 2018 at 12:05
#81
Joined: May 2018
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Quoting: Capitalfail67
I can get on board with that. Top 10 center is way more realistic


Remember that time you tried to argue that Kuznetsov is way better than Matthews? I'm going to just leave this here.

https://www.sportsnet.ca/hockey/nhl/definitive-ranking-nhls-top-20-centres-three-seasons/
Oct 3, 2018 at 12:39
#82
Caps fan idk why
Joined: Dec 2016
Posts: 5,334
Likes: 1,744
Quoting: LoganOllivier
Remember that time you tried to argue that Kuznetsov is way better than Matthews? I'm going to just leave this here.

https://www.sportsnet.ca/hockey/nhl/definitive-ranking-nhls-top-20-centres-three-seasons/


remember the time kuzy scored more points than Matthews and won the cup scoring 30+ points and Matthews lead the leafs to a 7 game series loss scoring 2 points........ wow Canada media overrating a tml player thats never happened haha
Oct 3, 2018 at 12:41
#83
Joined: May 2018
Posts: 12,894
Likes: 3,977
Quoting: Capitalfail67
remember the time kuzy scored more points than Matthews and won the cup scoring 30+ points and Matthews lead the leafs to a 7 game series loss scoring 2 points........ wow Canada media overrating a tml player thats never happened haha


Your love of Kuznetsov is adorable. This wasn't an opinion piece, read the article dude, it uses a tonne of information to value players beyond just points and its very accurate. Also Backstrom is still better than Kuznetsov, I don't think it'll be for much longer, but he's still the best centre in Washington.
Oct 3, 2018 at 12:44
#84
Caps fan idk why
Joined: Dec 2016
Posts: 5,334
Likes: 1,744
Quoting: LoganOllivier
Remember that time you tried to argue that Kuznetsov is way better than Matthews? I'm going to just leave this here.

https://www.sportsnet.ca/hockey/nhl/definitive-ranking-nhls-top-20-centres-three-seasons/


so they rated malkin over Crosby......nate McKinnon who had 97 points in 74 games at 8th.....jack eichel at 10th over backstrom kuzy tavares stamkos and Scheifele. this is what you leave......every player I just named had a better season than Matthews and hes rated 5th.....yeah haha keep trying kid
Oct 3, 2018 at 12:49
#85
Joined: May 2018
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Quoting: Capitalfail67
so they rated malkin over Crosby......nate McKinnon who had 97 points in 74 games at 8th.....jack eichel at 10th over backstrom kuzy tavares stamkos and Scheifele. this is what you leave......every player I just named had a better season than Matthews and hes rated 5th.....yeah haha keep trying kid


I'll say it again, because captain defensive didn't read it the last time. This article uses a lot of stats beyond just goals and assists. It uses turnovers, puck retrieval, passes through the slot in defensive zone, etc etc. What makes a player great goes well beyond just points. Read the article man, you'll learn a lot about hockey. I know its not a huge thing down there in the states but its a far more complex than scoring goals.

For example, Kuznetsov is one of the best players in hockey at transitional offence, meaning when he gets the puck in the neutral zone, he's the best at turning it up ice and turning that into a scoring chance. He's also not very interested in his own zone, doesn't retrieve loose pucks well and allows a lot of passes through the slot.

So I suggest you actually read the article instead of skimming the placing of each player.
Oct 3, 2018 at 12:51
#86
Caps fan idk why
Joined: Dec 2016
Posts: 5,334
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Quoting: LoganOllivier
Your love of Kuznetsov is adorable. This wasn't an opinion piece, read the article dude, it uses a tonne of information to value players beyond just points and its very accurate. Also Backstrom is still better than Kuznetsov, I don't think it'll be for much longer, but he's still the best centre in Washington.


kind of like your blind love for Matthews.....his career high is >70 points? hasnt made it out of the 1st round of the playoffs with a pretty stacked leaf team.....yeah 2 points in 7 games last season is so good hand him the conn..... 1 ppg yeah thats pretty good but doesn't warrant the elite level you are giving him..
Oct 3, 2018 at 12:58
#87
Joined: May 2018
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Quoting: Capitalfail67
kind of like your blind love for Matthews.....his career high is >70 points? hasnt made it out of the 1st round of the playoffs with a pretty stacked leaf team.....yeah 2 points in 7 games last season is so good hand him the conn..... 1 ppg yeah thats pretty good but doesn't warrant the elite level you are giving him..


Guy is given article that outlines what makes the best centres in the game the best.
Checks to see where his favourite player is ranked and doesn't read anything else.
Calls the article crap without reading it because his favourite player isn't listed as high as he wants.
Attacks other player who is ranked higher than his favourite player.

Read the article, learn some stuff and then we can have a discussion. Right now you sound like a toddler having a temper tantrum.
Yojimbo liked this.
Oct 3, 2018 at 1:08
#88
Caps fan idk why
Joined: Dec 2016
Posts: 5,334
Likes: 1,744
Quoting: LoganOllivier
Guy is given article that outlines what makes the best centres in the game the best.
Checks to see where his favourite player is ranked and doesn't read anything else.
Calls the article crap without reading it because his favourite player isn't listed as high as he wants.
Attacks other player who is ranked higher than his favourite player.

Read the article, learn some stuff and then we can have a discussion. Right now you sound like a toddler having a temper tantrum.


guy claims a 20year old is a top 5 player
guy is shown stats that show his elite player isn't top 5 and very comparable to kuzy
guy then searches fr 3 days for an article that would support his case
guy shows people article that highlights stats that aren't lateral between every team
guy also makes argument that wilson sucks bc he doesn't score a lot of points and is a 4th liner and ignores stats that he is showing benefit his current argument

coughcough hypocrite
Oct 3, 2018 at 1:19
#89
Joined: May 2018
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Quoting: Capitalfail67
guy claims a 20year old is a top 5 player
guy is shown stats that show his elite player isn't top 5 and very comparable to kuzy
guy then searches fr 3 days for an article that would support his case
guy shows people article that highlights stats that aren't lateral between every team
guy also makes argument that wilson sucks bc he doesn't score a lot of points and is a 4th liner and ignores stats that he is showing benefit his current argument

coughcough hypocrite


What stats? Points from 1 season?

What is with Cap fans? You guys really love cherry picking stats to help your stance but ignore everything else because it hurts you.

I literally just posted a story that uses ever stat available to rank centres in the league. What stats are you talking about? The 1 season that a 25 year old Kuznetsov scored over a point a game. In his 5 or 6 seasons in the NHL, while Matthews who is 20, TWENTY YEARS OLD, managed to go over a point a game in only his second year.

On top of that, the article uses many other stats, like passes through the slot in the offensive zone. A very important indicator for defensive prowess, and one Kuznetsov is very poor at.

READ THE ARTICLE, it will help you understand how hockey is played.
Oct 3, 2018 at 1:20
#90
Joined: May 2018
Posts: 12,894
Likes: 3,977
Quoting: Capitalfail67
guy claims a 20year old is a top 5 player
guy is shown stats that show his elite player isn't top 5 and very comparable to kuzy
guy then searches fr 3 days for an article that would support his case
guy shows people article that highlights stats that aren't lateral between every team
guy also makes argument that wilson sucks bc he doesn't score a lot of points and is a 4th liner and ignores stats that he is showing benefit his current argument

coughcough hypocrite


Also the article was released yesterday and I just read it this morning. You would have known this had you, you know, READ THE ARTICLE.
Oct 3, 2018 at 1:35
#91
Caps fan idk why
Joined: Dec 2016
Posts: 5,334
Likes: 1,744
Quoting: LoganOllivier
Also the article was released yesterday and I just read it this morning. You would have known this had you, you know, READ THE ARTICLE.


guy again the stats aren't lateral between every team.....things like systems come into play. I don't feel like arguing with you. you are boring honestly
Oct 3, 2018 at 1:38
#92
Joined: May 2018
Posts: 12,894
Likes: 3,977
Quoting: Capitalfail67
guy again the stats aren't lateral between every team.....things like systems come into play. I don't feel like arguing with you. you are boring honestly


Of course all teams are different, but by using the same stats for each player and then comparing based on important indicators, you get a fairly accurate sense of each players value. Not many people think much of Barkov but he's a monster out there and one of the best defensive centres in the game, but because most people don't understand the finer points of playing hockey, they see he scores less than some guys and that means he isn't as good.

Here is the thing though, every list out there for top centres has Matthews ahead of Kuznetsov. Why do you think that is? It must be because everyone is wrong and Kuznetsov is actually the best player in the game today.
Oct 3, 2018 at 3:52
#93
Joined: May 2018
Posts: 12,894
Likes: 3,977
Well good thing the guy only makes 5+ million to miss the first quarter of the season. LOL endlessly.
Nov 6, 2018 at 12:31
#94
Donald F'n Trump
Joined: Jan 2018
Posts: 399
Likes: 73
I love how this went from talking about the wilson suspension to a fcking war over matthews vs kuznetsov
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Nov 9, 2018 at 3:00
#95
Joined: Apr 2018
Posts: 3,589
Likes: 951
Quoting: LoganOllivier
What is with Cap fans? You guys really love cherry picking stats to help your stance but ignore everything else because it hurts you.


You should live here.

Even worse than cherry picking -> Complain about players kneeling during the anthem... then yell "red" and "O" during the anthem.
Nov 13, 2018 at 12:13
#96
Joined: Apr 2018
Posts: 3,589
Likes: 951
Wilson's suspension is cut and crickets... Where is the joy?
Nov 13, 2018 at 1:49
#97
Thread Starter
Let's GO CAPS!
Joined: Jun 2016
Posts: 935
Likes: 282
Quoting: biglite351
Wilson's suspension is cut and crickets... Where is the joy?


I am super happy. It was too excessive even at the 16 he served. 12 would have been a good strong message. Let's see if he helps the Caps tonight. He should have fresh legs.
Nov 13, 2018 at 1:53
#98
Joined: Apr 2018
Posts: 3,589
Likes: 951
Quoting: netminder71
I am super happy. It was too excessive even at the 16 he served. 12 would have been a good strong message. Let's see if he helps the Caps tonight. He should have fresh legs.


Over/under on the number of games before supplemental discipline is applied again? I say next season, about now-ish.
Nov 13, 2018 at 1:58
#99
Thread Starter
Let's GO CAPS!
Joined: Jun 2016
Posts: 935
Likes: 282
Quoting: biglite351
Over/under on the number of games before supplemental discipline is applied again? I say next season, about now-ish.


Ehhhhhh, I think is happens when we play Pitt next. Malkin better keep his head on a swivel.
 
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