NJD will miss the PO's this year. Hall will have one year left. Will he want to stay long term? Maybe. But not likely.
He will also cost 10+M per (I think 11M sound about right). Will NJD pay it even if they get the chance?
If he wont resign, then it's Erik Karlsson v. 2.0. Elite superstar. Weak team that cant let him walk for nothing = great dougie hunting opportunity.
NJD will also want a a few top forwards, likely at least one good defenseman, at least one or two 1st rounders and a top prospect.
Sharks can offer Kane (top liner), Labanc (young top 9 F), Braun, a solid vet defender, Blichfeld the leading scorer not only in the WHL, but in all of the CHL, as well as Merkley (a 1st rounder who leads the OHL in D scoring) and a 1st round pick. Throw in a solid backup goalie since schneider looks iffy, and it's that much better for them.
Its a huge haul for NJD in exchange for one year of Hall.
For the sharks, they actually drop salary giving space to keep pavs and Erik karlsson. They still have True, Chekhovich, perron, gambrell, Gregor and others who can step up, not to mention the seemingly annual Euro import free agent who steps into the linuep and makes a positive impact (like Donkey, Melker, Heed, Radil, Suomela, etc...), so it's not like the future really is all that mortgaged on such a deal.
Hall is an MVP talent at just 27 years old. The sharks salary structure set up below allows them to resign Hall for 10-11M long term after next year since the cap will be roughly 86M in 2020-21, and the sharks will have 10F (all but Hall and Melker Karlsson), 4D (including vlasic, burns, karlsson, and Ryan), and 2G signed for a total of 68M. That leaves 18M to resign Hall (say 8 x 11), Dillon (4x3.5), and round out the 6/7D and 12/13F at a little under 1M per.
What a team with Hall, Cooch, Pavs, Hertl, Meier, Donskoi as the top 6 with solid depth in Sorensen, Goodrow, Radil, karlsson, and exciting potential in guys like Gambrell, Chekhovich, etc.
And the D would remain with Burns, Karlsson, Vlasic, and Dillon as the top 4, and Ryan, Simek, and Middleton rounding out the lineup.
That's a great lineup today and for many years to come.
This is the type of move Dougie would make and clearly helps both teams in the near term and the long term.
I love Hall, but come the hell on. He's not McDavid.
Two top 6 forwards, a top 6 forward prospect, a top 4 D, a top 4, maybe top 2 D prospect, a backup who might be starter quality and a 1st?
The Sharks are aging, and they can't afford to keep draining the cupboards every six months.
Are the sharks aging? Jumbo is 39, pavs is 34. All other forwards are sub 30. Burns is 33. Pickles is 31. (if they trade braun), all the other D is 28 or less. Jones is 28.
How is this an 'old' team? Also, Hall is 26, not exactly the same as acquiring an Eric stall-type.
Also, who's to say the cupboard is bare? They currently boast the leading score of the entire CHL (blinchfeld), the leading scorer of the QMJHL(checkhovich), the leading scoring Dman in the OHL (merkley), the #7 scorer in the WHL (gregor), the player of the game in the gold medal for world juniors and 2nd on team USA in scoring (Chmelevski), better than point-per-game college player (leonard). They also have teh #1 goalie in GAA and Save % in the QMJHL (Emond). And that does not include solid guys in the AHL like Perron, True, or Gambrell, all cruising around point per game on the best AHL team in the Pacific and 2nd best (out of 31) in the whole AHL.
The cupboard is far from bare, but the sharks want to win now. Hall is the MVP last year. Adding a Norris winner and then the MVP would be pretty awesome. And, they'd still have a pretty solid cupboard...
Well that cap doesn't work. Do you Sharks really want Wilson "swinging for the fences.". Has it been that successful before?
I would argue that it has. They havent won the cup, of course. But since swinging for the fences for Jumbo, they have missed the PO's just once. They swung for Boyle and made the PO's every year in his 6 year tenure. They swung for Burns and he won a norris and has been awesome. The 'swings' have been pretty good, even the cup has been elusive. Now he swung for karlsson, and we'll see what happens. But, I could see him swing for Hall, and giving up Kane (who is overpaid and D liability), Labanc (who is currently playing 8 minutes on the 4th line), Dell (who is a backup goalie and gone after a year), Braun (who is clearly slowing and gone after a year), Blichfeld (who is dominating the CHL, but as an overager. Halb did the same but has struggled some in the A), Merkley (who I still see as a D liability and not a blue chip), and a late 1st. Lots of pieces, but a bunch of B- for an A+ is a good trade.
BTW, they moved a similar amount in the Karlsson deal. a top 9 forward, an nhl Dman, AHL leading scorer, #1 forward prospect, a 1st rounder, and a 2nd rounder. I would figure any deal for Hall would be similarly priced.
No gm would consider giving up that much for one player
you sure? Hall is a pretty great player and with one more year at just 6M, just 26 years old, he's a bargain. There are 31 teams clamoring for talent. Landing an MVP is hard, but to do it for a package of picks, prospects, a #5 Dman (Id put braun behind dillon now), an overpaid forward, and a young promising but poor defensive and inconsistent forward, and a back up goalie is alot of players, but not a huge amount of loss. From the NHL roster Braun+Kane+Labanc into Hall is, to me, an upgrade. It also is a big cap savings for one year, and then a roughly swap after that.
You gotta give to get. If they can get him for even cheaper that would be amazing, but if not, this is the price to get an MVP. It makes the sharks better now, and if they can resign him (which dougie has a long history of doing (jumbo, burns, kane, etc), then it works great in the future too. Id love to add an MVP at age 27 for the next 8 years or so to partner with the two norris winners on D. Mmmmmmm..... yummmy.......
you sure? Hall is a pretty great player and with one more year at just 6M, just 26 years old, he's a bargain. There are 31 teams clamoring for talent. Landing an MVP is hard, but to do it for a package of picks, prospects, a #5 Dman (Id put braun behind dillon now), an overpaid forward, and a young promising but poor defensive and inconsistent forward, and a back up goalie is alot of players, but not a huge amount of loss. From the NHL roster Braun+Kane+Labanc into Hall is, to me, an upgrade. It also is a big cap savings for one year, and then a roughly swap after that.
You gotta give to get. If they can get him for even cheaper that would be amazing, but if not, this is the price to get an MVP. It makes the sharks better now, and if they can resign him (which dougie has a long history of doing (jumbo, burns, kane, etc), then it works great in the future too. Id love to add an MVP at age 27 for the next 8 years or so to partner with the two norris winners on D. Mmmmmmm..... yummmy.......
Yes im sure, have you ever seen 6 guys - including 5 main roster ever moved for one guy. It doesnt happen
Yes im sure, have you ever seen 6 guys - including 5 main roster ever moved for one guy. It doesnt happen
The only deal I can think of that had so many pieces moving for one guy was lindros to philly...
That was Lindros for Mike Ricci, Kerry Huffman, Ron Hextall, Steve Duchesne, Chris Simon, a 1st rounder (which became peter forsberg, but who knew), and another draft pick. 5 roster players and two draft picks for one guy.
Nevertheless, ff Dell is not included in the deal, it doesnt change much as he adds relatvely little value with one year left as a backup goalie. He can be moved for a mid rounder in a separate deal and it has the same effect. Not including Braun is similarly minor as he is a solid vet signed to a reasonable number and the market for him is definitely there.
So Kane+Labanc+ Blichfeld, Merley, and a 1st. It's still a big price for one guy with one year left, but maybe that is more in line with the Karlsson deal.
I have no problem breaking the Hall trade into small pieces. The key is just doing what it takes to land a #1 winger, Hart Trophy winner, at age 26. So rarely to top line players at that age become available. That's why the Tavares bidding was so fierce, and Panarin likely too. its why the sharks had to give kane such $$ and term. Hall would be up there as well, but I would argue that it's worth it.
The only deal I can think of that had so many pieces moving for one guy was lindros to philly...
That was Lindros for Mike Ricci, Kerry Huffman, Ron Hextall, Steve Duchesne, Chris Simon, a 1st rounder (which became peter forsberg, but who knew), and another draft pick. 5 roster players and two draft picks for one guy.
Nevertheless, ff Dell is not included in the deal, it doesnt change much as he adds relatvely little value with one year left as a backup goalie. He can be moved for a mid rounder in a separate deal and it has the same effect. Not including Braun is similarly minor as he is a solid vet signed to a reasonable number and the market for him is definitely there.
So Kane+Labanc+ Blichfeld, Merley, and a 1st. It's still a big price for one guy with one year left, but maybe that is more in line with the Karlsson deal.
I have no problem breaking the Hall trade into small pieces. The key is just doing what it takes to land a #1 winger, Hart Trophy winner, at age 26. So rarely to top line players at that age become available. That's why the Tavares bidding was so fierce, and Panarin likely too. its why the sharks had to give kane such $$ and term. Hall would be up there as well, but I would argue that it's worth it.
You have to go back to the early 90s to find something comparable, and who did that work out for, not Philly. GMs dont manage like that anymore
You have to go back to the early 90s to find something comparable, and who did that work out for, not Philly. GMs dont manage like that anymore
While, I think the trade worked pretty ell for philly if not for the concussion, I hear your point and I accept your argument.
In light of Radil's extension, I think Dougie is clearly working hard to fill out the bottom six at under 1M per in order to make big offers to pavs and karlsson. I think he's thinking 8 years, 100M for karlsson. pavs might be around 4 years, 30M. That said, if they have enough guys like Radil, Goodrow, Sorensen, Gambrell, and co to round out the bottom six at bargain basement prices, along with Simek, Middleton, and Ryan to round our the bottom 5-7 Dmen at sub 1M per, then Dougie can afford to move some pieces to add a big name up front and really load up the top 6-9F.
I doubt that dougie is finished, and all the dominoes fall once Karlsson decided his future.
Right now all of Gregor, Chmelevski, Chekhovich, and Blichfeld will be barracuda next year. Add them to True, Chartier, Halb, Perron, Gambrell, Truchon-viel, wienger, Wiederer, and others and it's an overcrowded barracuda forward roster full of strong 20-23 year olds. Not to mention the annual euro imports that dougie always seems to find. To me, that begs dougie to get top value for those guys in adding a star forward. He can easily spare several top forward prospects and have several still left to spare.
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