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Quoting: dorby

Why not sign Panarin instead of Jeff Skinner for Panarin money?

They could try for either but I’m guessing Panarin signs somewhere where he is the go to guy in a big city/warm climate. Multiple reports saying that’s the case at least.

May 14, 2019 at 3:36 p.m.

#4

Caps fan idk why

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why would the avs do this? kessel is good but for how long? "jugs" is terrible.....just awful. jarry is good but hes worth maybe a 3rd? Zadorov is a solid bottom 4 dman who is physical....avs were 1 game away from the wcf no need to make major changes

May 14, 2019 at 3:39 p.m.

#5

PotatoChips

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Quoting: Capitalfail67

why would the avs do this? kessel is good but for how long? "jugs" is terrible.....just awful. jarry is good but hes worth maybe a 3rd? Zadorov is a solid bottom 4 dman who is physical....avs were 1 game away from the wcf no need to make major changes

caps fan commenting on a penguins post = opinion doesn't count

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May 14, 2019 at 4:05 p.m.

#6

Caps fan idk why

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Quoting: PotatoChips

caps fan commenting on a penguins post = opinion doesn't count

I live in pittsburgh and a bad trade is a bad trade doesnt much matter who I root for.

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May 14, 2019 at 4:41 p.m.

#7

DiehardRedWingsFan58

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Sure and the Hawks take Byram with their #3 overall pick then.

May 14, 2019 at 5:07 p.m.

#8

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Kessel and some throw away trash for the 4th overall and a very good Zadorov who is a Top 4 Physical Dman thats good Defensively too.

Keep Dreaming Pens fans...your whole reasoning is Avs dont need another A+ prospect. Um did you actually write that believing it? Every team wants another A+ prospect no matter what...holy crap that might be the worst homer trade rationale ever on this site hahahaha

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May 14, 2019 at 5:48 p.m.

#9

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Quoting: DiehardRedWingsFan58

Sure and the Hawks take Byram with their #3 overall pick then.

They`ve drafted dmen with their top pick last 3 drafts theyre gonna take a forward.

May 14, 2019 at 5:56 p.m.

#10

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Quoting: coga16

Kessel and some throw away trash for the 4th overall and a very good Zadorov who is a Top 4 Physical Dman thats good Defensively too.

Keep Dreaming Pens fans...your whole reasoning is Avs dont need another A+ prospect. Um did you actually write that believing it? Every team wants another A+ prospect no matter what...holy crap that might be the worst homer trade rationale ever on this site hahahaha

You don`t get it. They still get their A+ prospect in Spencer Knight, best goalie prospect in years and future franchise goalie. Plus another top 20 talent. Plus a massive second/third line center winger, plus one of the elite point producing wingers in the NHL who still produces at a point a game clip. The rationale is that they don't need the 4th because they have their core and they are trying to win NOW. They`re rationale is that they drop 15 spots in the draft and lose a dman that many Avs fans blame for their series loss and they can easily replace with their prospects or in FA and get back all of that in return. It just makes sense for both teams. Nobody they draft at #4 will produce like Phil in the next few years, maybe ever. They have a young core. They add a 2x Stanley Cup champ who is still playing at an elite level. How could you not see the rationale? The Avs aren't rebuilding anymore. They are/should be in win NOW mode. Win now mode means you take stop adding to you`re massive prospect pool and add the best players available. Don`t give me that crap.

May 14, 2019 at 6:00 p.m.

#11

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Quoting: Capitalfail67

why would the avs do this? kessel is good but for how long? "jugs" is terrible.....just awful. jarry is good but hes worth maybe a 3rd? Zadorov is a solid bottom 4 dman who is physical....avs were 1 game away from the wcf no need to make major changes

Alright 1. Jugs is not terrible. But you gotta think about what the Avs plan is now. They have a tonne of cap space right now. They are in win now mode. They have their young core. You add Phil for 4 years of elite production left and just that alone is going to be worth more than the 4th pick who won`t make an impact like Phil for at least a few years, maybe ever. You add Stanley Cup experience. You add a 2nd/3rd line monster. You add a backup goalie. Not to mention you STILL have two first rounders this year. In a very deep draft. It makes too much sense to me for both teams to do this. I liked some Kessel to Arizona ideas but this one seems to make more sense for both teams.

May 14, 2019 at 6:48 p.m.

#12

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Quoting: ChampEddy

You don`t get it. They still get their A+ prospect in Spencer Knight, best goalie prospect in years and future franchise goalie. Plus another top 20 talent. Plus a massive second/third line center winger, plus one of the elite point producing wingers in the NHL who still produces at a point a game clip. The rationale is that they don't need the 4th because they have their core and they are trying to win NOW. They`re rationale is that they drop 15 spots in the draft and lose a dman that many Avs fans blame for their series loss and they can easily replace with their prospects or in FA and get back all of that in return. It just makes sense for both teams. Nobody they draft at #4 will produce like Phil in the next few years, maybe ever. They have a young core. They add a 2x Stanley Cup champ who is still playing at an elite level. How could you not see the rationale? The Avs aren't rebuilding anymore. They are/should be in win NOW mode. Win now mode means you take stop adding to you`re massive prospect pool and add the best players available. Don`t give me that crap.

you are scrambling so hard to justify this....so they trade for a good Jarry in your opion (which is not true) just so they can draft a better goalie prospect in Knight. You are trying way way way too hard to justify your homer trade.

Avs can just take the 4OA and still be "in win it now mode", which for your record starts this year offseason with their core locked up, lots of cap space to sign their RFAs and still make an impact UFA signing. Hontestly my man you are so far off in trying to figure out what the Avs want and need, its hilarious. Off the mark, and all over the map in your attempt to justify how they "dont need an A+ prospect". Avs are linked to Panarin who has interest to sign there as well. Why would they trade for Kessel and take on some other terrible throw away parts when they can keep Zads, add an elite talent on an ELC and get an impact UFA vs Kessel and a guy who would never make to the NHL if ht does is a back up and a 3rd line C who is marginal at best with an expensive contract

Its a bad trade and bad justification, its ok to admit it on a second look at it

May 14, 2019 at 8:19 p.m.

#13

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Quoting: coga16

you are scrambling so hard to justify this....so they trade for a good Jarry in your opion (which is not true) just so they can draft a better goalie prospect in Knight. You are trying way way way too hard to justify your homer trade.

Avs can just take the 4OA and still be "in win it now mode", which for your record starts this year offseason with their core locked up, lots of cap space to sign their RFAs and still make an impact UFA signing. Hontestly my man you are so far off in trying to figure out what the Avs want and need, its hilarious. Off the mark, and all over the map in your attempt to justify how they "dont need an A+ prospect". Avs are linked to Panarin who has interest to sign there as well. Why would they trade for Kessel and take on some other terrible throw away parts when they can keep Zads, add an elite talent on an ELC and get an impact UFA vs Kessel and a guy who would never make to the NHL if ht does is a back up and a 3rd line C who is marginal at best with an expensive contract

Its a bad trade and bad justification, its ok to admit it on a second look at it

I said cheap backup, who could end up starting. I don't know if they will draft Knight. I think they should draft him but even then hes 2-3 years from starting in Colorado. Panarin is not signing in Colorado. Its been reported for months he is going somewhere he gets paid huge money, is the go to guy and is in a big city like New York/LA or in a warm climate. Hes not going to the Avs. Neither is Duchene. I`m the only one who has justified anything. All you have said is how terrible it is when it clearly makes sense for them to do it. If it was Kakko/Hughes they were getting then no, they probably wouldn't do the deal. But this is a deep draft. And based on what they need it would make more sense for them to trade down and acquire Phil the Thrill to push them to that next level. Whoever they draft at 4 is not going to do that for them. So don't say I`m scrambling. Its just that obvious that anyone would be able to look at the pieces in this trade and say that it benefits both teams. Obviously the 4OA pick would benefit the Avs. But to say Kessel, Jarry, Bjugstad and 21OA isn`t superior, especially in the short term, is absolutely ****.

May 14, 2019 at 8:27 p.m.

#14

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Quoting: ChampEddy

I said cheap backup, who could end up starting. I don't know if they will draft Knight. I think they should draft him but even then hes 2-3 years from starting in Colorado. Panarin is not signing in Colorado. Its been reported for months he is going somewhere he gets paid huge money, is the go to guy and is in a big city like New York/LA or in a warm climate. Hes not going to the Avs. Neither is Duchene. I`m the only one who has justified anything. All you have said is how terrible it is when it clearly makes sense for them to do it. If it was Kakko/Hughes they were getting then no, they probably wouldn't do the deal. But this is a deep draft. And based on what they need it would make more sense for them to trade down and acquire Phil the Thrill to push them to that next level. Whoever they draft at 4 is not going to do that for them. So don't say I`m scrambling. Its just that obvious that anyone would be able to look at the pieces in this trade and say that it benefits both teams. Obviously the 4OA pick would benefit the Avs. But to say Kessel, Jarry, Bjugstad and 21OA isn`t superior, especially in the short term, is absolutely ****.

Try harder In justifying your terrible trade with flawed logic and no incentive for the avs. The more you try the worst you make it

Also for the record, Avs beat writers have sources say Panarin is interested in the avs bc he can get big money there, bright future to win the cup, and the way the avs treat Russians.

So yeah I guess you are smarter than actually paid and professional hockey writers with real sources

May 14, 2019 at 9:15 p.m.

#15

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Quoting: coga16

Try harder In justifying your terrible trade with flawed logic and no incentive for the avs. The more you try the worst you make it

Also for the record, Avs beat writers have sources say Panarin is interested in the avs bc he can get big money there, bright future to win the cup, and the way the avs treat Russians.

So yeah I guess you are smarter than actually paid and professional hockey writers with real sources

I`ve never heard such a thing and I`ve looked a lot of different places. I`ve only heard NYR, LA, Florida as realistic spots.

Once again, I`m not trying hard to justify it. I`m trying to explain the incentive for the Avs. But you are somehow failing to see it. Pretty clear to me. Lets put it this way sweetie.

Colorado Avalanche Position: Young, cheap contracts. Elite core. Cap space. All in on win now mode.

Option 1: Phil Kessel - 4 years of elite offensive production. Stanley Cup experience. Cheap cap hit.
Nick Bjugstad - 2C/3C or top 6W, Massive, Elite Shot, 1st round pick.
Tristan Jarry- >700k cap hit, backup goalie with potential for more.
21OA- Deep draft gives plenty of options. I would go with Spencer Knight. Could also target some real good F/D here too if they want. They also have 16OA and could potentially trade back up if they wanted but I doubt that would happen and wouldn`t recommend it.
2019 3rd- Sweetener. Could use pick or use it to pick up something at trade deadline.

Option 2: 4OA- Draft Turcotte, Byram, Cozens, Dach, Podkolzin ETC...
None of these players play right away. None will match Kessels production next 3 years. Likely never. Will be difficult to establish themselves in an ultra talented top 6F and top 4D.
Zadorov- Physical, serviceable bottom 4D. Replaceable. Will be pushed for playing time by multiple up and coming Avs D prospects.

Obviously trading such a prized selection is rare. Obviously any team would love to have any of the players that will be available there. BUT, if you look at it realistically from the Avs perspective you would have to be pretty dumb not to see that it makes more sense for them to trade down and acquire an elite talent and some depth to push them over the top. They were 1 game away from the WCF. Pretty sure they are going to want to go all in.

Want me to go back and look at some recent top picks traded and their return? Since you clearly don`t follow the NHL very closely?

2017- 7OA and Tony DeAngelo for Derek Stepan and Antti Raanta.
2012- 8OA and Brandon Sutter for Jordan Staal and Brian Dumoulin.
2011-8OA and Jake Voracek for 3rd rounder (Nick Cousins) and Jeff Carter
2010-9OA 2011 and 2OA 2010 and 2nd Rounder for...Phil Kessel.

WOW! I could find others but those were just some off the top of my head, like the 99 Sedin draft trades. But wow, these trades make mine look pretty damn good for the Avs, eh? Maybe when you actually look at it from a team building perspective you can see that the team is looking to make a splash and push for the cup in the next few years. And anyone would be unbelievably dumb to try and argue that option 2 is superior to option 1 when considering that fact.

Once again, its not hard to justify the trade. Its difficult to try and explain something so simple to someone who has no idea what he`s talking about. You have provided NOTHING of a rebuttal to why option 2 is superior. You just say the trade is awful without any substance because you can`t make as good of an argument as I have.

The truth is the Avs are in a real good position either way. Its just evident that they would be better off making this deal, if the Pens agreed to give up so much that is.

May 14, 2019 at 10:34 p.m.

#16

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Quoting: ChampEddy

I`ve never heard such a thing and I`ve looked a lot of different places. I`ve only heard NYR, LA, Florida as realistic spots.

Once again, I`m not trying hard to justify it. I`m trying to explain the incentive for the Avs. But you are somehow failing to see it. Pretty clear to me. Lets put it this way sweetie.

Colorado Avalanche Position: Young, cheap contracts. Elite core. Cap space. All in on win now mode.

Option 1: Phil Kessel - 4 years of elite offensive production. Stanley Cup experience. Cheap cap hit.
Nick Bjugstad - 2C/3C or top 6W, Massive, Elite Shot, 1st round pick.
Tristan Jarry- >700k cap hit, backup goalie with potential for more.
21OA- Deep draft gives plenty of options. I would go with Spencer Knight. Could also target some real good F/D here too if they want. They also have 16OA and could potentially trade back up if they wanted but I doubt that would happen and wouldn`t recommend it.
2019 3rd- Sweetener. Could use pick or use it to pick up something at trade deadline.

Option 2: 4OA- Draft Turcotte, Byram, Cozens, Dach, Podkolzin ETC...
None of these players play right away. None will match Kessels production next 3 years. Likely never. Will be difficult to establish themselves in an ultra talented top 6F and top 4D.
Zadorov- Physical, serviceable bottom 4D. Replaceable. Will be pushed for playing time by multiple up and coming Avs D prospects.

Obviously trading such a prized selection is rare. Obviously any team would love to have any of the players that will be available there. BUT, if you look at it realistically from the Avs perspective you would have to be pretty dumb not to see that it makes more sense for them to trade down and acquire an elite talent and some depth to push them over the top. They were 1 game away from the WCF. Pretty sure they are going to want to go all in.

Want me to go back and look at some recent top picks traded and their return? Since you clearly don`t follow the NHL very closely?

2017- 7OA and Tony DeAngelo for Derek Stepan and Antti Raanta.
2012- 8OA and Brandon Sutter for Jordan Staal and Brian Dumoulin.
2011-8OA and Jake Voracek for 3rd rounder (Nick Cousins) and Jeff Carter
2010-9OA 2011 and 2OA 2010 and 2nd Rounder for...Phil Kessel.

WOW! I could find others but those were just some off the top of my head, like the 99 Sedin draft trades. But wow, these trades make mine look pretty damn good for the Avs, eh? Maybe when you actually look at it from a team building perspective you can see that the team is looking to make a splash and push for the cup in the next few years. And anyone would be unbelievably dumb to try and argue that option 2 is superior to option 1 when considering that fact.

Once again, its not hard to justify the trade. Its difficult to try and explain something so simple to someone who has no idea what he`s talking about. You have provided NOTHING of a rebuttal to why option 2 is superior. You just say the trade is awful without any substance because you can`t make as good of an argument as I have.

The truth is the Avs are in a real good position either way. Its just evident that they would be better off making this deal, if the Pens agreed to give up so much that is.

Try harde rand you right the ramblings of a lunatic...hahaha holy crap...and your trades, those are 7th and 8th overall. Not the 4th overall. So you did all this for no reason and still look like you are off your rocker trying to justifying this gong show of a trade

May 14, 2019 at 11:53 p.m.

#17

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Quoting: coga16

Try harde rand you right the ramblings of a lunatic...hahaha holy crap...and your trades, those are 7th and 8th overall. Not the 4th overall. So you did all this for no reason and still look like you are off your rocker trying to justifying this gong show of a trade

haha wow you`re an absolute Neanderthal

May 15, 2019 at 1:04 a.m.

#18

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Quoting: ChampEddy

haha wow you`re an absolute Neanderthal

You haven’t made one solid point, just trying your hardest to justify your homerish stance. It’s ok to be a homer but you don’t have to write and ramble on in a short story without substance.

May 15, 2019 at 6:22 a.m.

#19

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Quoting: coga16

You haven’t made one solid point, just trying your hardest to justify your homerish stance. It’s ok to be a homer but you don’t have to write and ramble on in a short story without substance.

That’s insanity guy. I’ve provided multiple points. You have provided nothing. Zero. Zilch. Nada.

May 15, 2019 at 6:27 a.m.

#20

gregb569

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Quoting: Capitalfail67

why would the avs do this? kessel is good but for how long? "jugs" is terrible.....just awful. jarry is good but hes worth maybe a 3rd? Zadorov is a solid bottom 4 dman who is physical....avs were 1 game away from the wcf no need to make major changes

Regardless if they're 1 game away a team with ample cap space who can add a Top 10 winger in the league for a serviceable top 4 (really a bottom 6 D in Zadorov) would be crazy not to do it.. GG tho

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May 15, 2019 at 9:36 a.m.

#21

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Quoting: ChampEddy

That’s insanity guy. I’ve provided multiple points. You have provided nothing. Zero. Zilch. Nada.

I said avs are targeting Panarin, you dismissed it, I said how Jarry is an AHL goalie and not even a credible back up....26 games with a .906 in the NHL, he has done nothing to show he can even be a back up. Plus Avs have Francouz who was one of the better goalies in the AHL, and put up .943 In 2 NHL games this year. So Jarry has no value like I have said.

Bjugstad is terrible...26 points at 4.1m..there is a reason why you got him for a handful of mid round draft picks, hes a cap dump.

I said no team has traded the 4th overall for the type of low level value you gave, and then you go back and show the 7th overall and 8th overall that range from a few years ago to over a decade ago...again the 4th overall wasn't moved.

What more can I say, you are blinded in your own way trying to be right but you cant even make one solid point. It comes down to Kessel and the Pens pick for the 4th overall and Zads and Avs laugh and keep their side of the deal. You dont have to move the 4th to get Kessel.

May 15, 2019 at 10:52 a.m.

#22

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Quoting: coga16

I said avs are targeting Panarin, you dismissed it, I said how Jarry is an AHL goalie and not even a credible back up....26 games with a .906 in the NHL, he has done nothing to show he can even be a back up. Plus Avs have Francouz who was one of the better goalies in the AHL, and put up .943 In 2 NHL games this year. So Jarry has no value like I have said.

Bjugstad is terrible...26 points at 4.1m..there is a reason why you got him for a handful of mid round draft picks, hes a cap dump.

I said no team has traded the 4th overall for the type of low level value you gave, and then you go back and show the 7th overall and 8th overall that range from a few years ago to over a decade ago...again the 4th overall wasn't moved.

What more can I say, you are blinded in your own way trying to be right but you cant even make one solid point. It comes down to Kessel and the Pens pick for the 4th overall and Zads and Avs laugh and keep their side of the deal. You dont have to move the 4th to get Kessel.

Sorry I didn’t get the EXACT pick for you. But you’re also wrong because Sedin picks were 2 and 3 and Seguin was 2. 7 and 8 are pretty damn close and show you the general value those trades go for.

I dismissed the Panarin signing because everywhere I’ve looked there has been absolutely nothing about the Avs and his agent has described his potential suitors and the Avs don’t fall in place with that.

You’re making it seem like Jarry and Bjugstad are major pieces in this deal but they’re not. Bjugstad is basically good for 0.5PPG almost every year he’s played. He would slot right in and be a useful player on the Avs 2nd or 3rd line. He is a rare type of player because of his size was acquired with McCann for Brassard, Sheehan and 3 draft picks so you’re wrong again...

Jarry once again is not a big part of the deal but gives them depth. They are losing Varlamov. They could use a cheap option as backup and take a chance on a guy who has been thought to be a very good prospect for years. It’s a very insignificant part of the trade and doesn’t need to even be a part of the deal but I think the Avs would be interested. Worst case scenario he doesn’t work out and you flip him for a pick.

You still are avoiding the main part of the trade which is Kessel stepping right in and delivering elite production that the 4OA wont. Not to mention they still get two firsts this year.

To put it simply, The 4OA pick for the Avs this year is more valuable to them as a trade piece that brings in a game breaking talent to help them win now for numerous reasons I’ve talked about in my other posts. It makes sense from a winning perspective, it makes sense from a prospect/asset management perspective, it makes sense from a salary cap perspective, it makes sense from a coach perspective. What do you think Mackinnon and Landeskog would think about the deal? Do you think it would be nice to add a player like Kessel? Do you think Bjugstads 40+ points next year will hurt? His 4.1M cap hit definitely won’t because the Avs have the room and it’s only for 1 year.

May 15, 2019 at 11:51 a.m.

#23

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Edited May 15, 2019 at 12:04 p.m.

Quoting: ChampEddy

Sorry I didn’t get the EXACT pick for you. But you’re also wrong because Sedin picks were 2 and 3 and Seguin was 2. 7 and 8 are pretty damn close and show you the general value those trades go for.

I dismissed the Panarin signing because everywhere I’ve looked there has been absolutely nothing about the Avs and his agent has described his potential suitors and the Avs don’t fall in place with that.

You’re making it seem like Jarry and Bjugstad are major pieces in this deal but they’re not. Bjugstad is basically good for 0.5PPG almost every year he’s played. He would slot right in and be a useful player on the Avs 2nd or 3rd line. He is a rare type of player because of his size was acquired with McCann for Brassard, Sheehan and 3 draft picks so you’re wrong again...

Jarry once again is not a big part of the deal but gives them depth. They are losing Varlamov. They could use a cheap option as backup and take a chance on a guy who has been thought to be a very good prospect for years. It’s a very insignificant part of the trade and doesn’t need to even be a part of the deal but I think the Avs would be interested. Worst case scenario he doesn’t work out and you flip him for a pick.

You still are avoiding the main part of the trade which is Kessel stepping right in and delivering elite production that the 4OA wont. Not to mention they still get two firsts this year.

To put it simply, The 4OA pick for the Avs this year is more valuable to them as a trade piece that brings in a game breaking talent to help them win now for numerous reasons I’ve talked about in my other posts. It makes sense from a winning perspective, it makes sense from a prospect/asset management perspective, it makes sense from a salary cap perspective, it makes sense from a coach perspective. What do you think Mackinnon and Landeskog would think about the deal? Do you think it would be nice to add a player like Kessel? Do you think Bjugstads 40+ points next year will hurt? His 4.1M cap hit definitely won’t because the Avs have the room and it’s only for 1 year.

You might be the most dense guy on this site. What did I just say about posting trades over a decade ago. Then you bring up the Sedins haha trades in the late 90s and early 2000s do not translate to today and 2 cbas later.

You make a mockery of yourself every time you post haha and you don’t get it. Kessel and other unwanted stuff does not get you the 4th overall and zads. Kessel isn’t worth that. You dont get the 4th overall and a very good young Top 4 Dman for a 31 year old Forward, a late pick and some other unwanted pieces that wouldnt even make the Avs roster

May 15, 2019 at 12:50 p.m.

#24

Caps fan idk why

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Quoting: ChampEddy

Alright 1. Jugs is not terrible. But you gotta think about what the Avs plan is now. They have a tonne of cap space right now. They are in win now mode. They have their young core. You add Phil for 4 years of elite production left and just that alone is going to be worth more than the 4th pick who won`t make an impact like Phil for at least a few years, maybe ever. You add Stanley Cup experience. You add a 2nd/3rd line monster. You add a backup goalie. Not to mention you STILL have two first rounders this year. In a very deep draft. It makes too much sense to me for both teams to do this. I liked some Kessel to Arizona ideas but this one seems to make more sense for both teams.

"jugs" is awful....also avs aren't in win now mode.....they greatly over achieved this year. honestly I would rather see them sign skinner for slightly more and keep the picks.... the need a 2nd line center more than a winger imo. avs if the draft right can be one of the best nhl teams in the next 3 years...

May 15, 2019 at 12:58 p.m.

#25