Forums/Armchair-GM

Did Ray Shero Make Any Bad Trades In Pittsburgh

Created by: vic997
Initial Creation Date: Jul 30, 2019
Published: Jul 30 at 11:31 am
Team: 2019-20 Pittsburgh Penguins
Team Explanation
Shero got a lot of crap for things out of his control.
MAF was abolustely horrendous for 3-4 straight playoffs with absolutely stacked Pens rosters.
His trades (not signings) were mostly all wins. He did exactly what he needed to do to make sure the Pens didn't waste prime Crosby and Malkin.

Feb 26, 2008:
Pens Get: Marian Hossa, Pascal Dupuis
Atlanta Gets: Colby Armstrong, Angelo Esposito (bust), Erik Christiensen, 2008 1st (bust)
Hossa helped bring Pens to finals with 26 pts in 20 games
Dupuis had a career high 59 pts and was a consistent 15-20 goal scorer for the Pens.

March 4, 2009:
Pens Get: Bill Guerin
NYI Get: Cond. 3rd (Guerin got 15 pts in pens 2009 cup run)

Feb 21, 2011:
PENS GET: JAMES NEAL, MATT NISKANEN
DALLAS GETS: Alex Goligoski
-His best trade by far. Aboluste robbery

June 4, 2012:
Pens get Tomas Vokoun for a 7th from Washington.
(Vokoun had to constantly bail fleury out when he was not on his game)

June 22, 2012:
Pens get: Brandon Sutter, Brian Dumoulin, 2012 8th overall - used for Pouliot
Carolina got: Jordan Staal

He got a damn second round pick for Tyler Kennedy
He got Jarome Iginla for literally ZERO! - a near ppg player that year

Worst Trades:
Getting Douglas Murray for 2 2nds
Getting Goc for a 3rd and 5th
Buried
  • Casey DeSmith: $175,000 ($1,250,000)
  • Erik Gudbranson: $2,925,000 ($4,000,000)
  • Matt Murray: $2,675,000 ($3,750,000)
  • Brandon Tanev: $2,425,000 ($3,500,000)
  • Alex Galchenyuk: $3,825,000 ($4,900,000)
  • Justin Schultz: $4,425,000 ($5,500,000)
  • Patric Hörnqvist: $4,225,000 ($5,300,000)
  • Nick Bjugstad: $3,025,000 ($4,100,000)
  • Jack Johnson: $2,175,000 ($3,250,000)
  • Jared McCann: $175,000 ($1,250,000)
  • Jake Guentzel: $4,925,000 ($6,000,000)
DRAFT YEARROUND 1ROUND 2ROUND 3ROUND 4ROUND 5ROUND 6ROUND 7
2020
PIT
PIT
PIT
PIT
PIT
2021
PIT
PIT
PIT
PIT
PIT
PIT
2022
PIT
PIT
PIT
PIT
PIT
PIT
PIT
ROSTER SIZESALARY CAPCAP HITOVERAGES BONUSESCAP SPACE
4$81,500,000$66,800,416$132,500$132,500$14,699,584
Left WingCenterRight Wing
PIT
Crosby, Sidney
$8,700,000
C
NMC
UFA - 6
PIT
Malkin, Evgeni
$9,500,000
C
NMC
UFA - 3
Left DefenseRight DefenseGoaltender
PIT
Dumoulin, Brian
$4,100,000
LD
UFA - 4
PIT
Letang, Kris
$7,250,000
RD
NMC NTC
UFA - 3
ScratchesInjured Reserve (IR)Long Term IR (LTIR)
PIT
Rust, Bryan
$3,500,000
RW, LW
UFA - 3
PIT
Simon, Dominik
$750,000
RW, LW
RFA - 1
PIT
Angello, Anthony
$833,750
C
RFA - 1
PIT
Haggerty, Ryan
$675,000
RW
UFA - 1
PIT
Aston-Reese, Zach
$1,000,000
LW, RW
RFA - 2
PIT
Blueger, Teddy
$750,000
C, LW
RFA - 2
PIT
Drozg, Jan
$809,166
LW, RW
RFA - 3

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Jul 30 at 11:36
#1
Joined: Jun 2018
Posts: 7,388
Likes: 1,487
"MAF was abolustely horrendous for 3-4 straight playoffs with absolutely stacked Pens rosters."

^ this right here is why MAF is in Vegas and the penguins play Murray
Jul 30 at 11:37
#2
cnb17
Joined: Feb 2016
Posts: 319
Likes: 28
and now NJ is LOADED and could make a serious run for the Metro. Still don't think they beat the Caps out but the way Pitt is right now, they'd be lucky to make the playoffs. Defense is horrible and that bottom six may be worse. SMH
vic997 liked this.
Jul 30 at 11:37
#3
Joined: Jul 2019
Posts: 189
Likes: 25
As good as the Neal trade was(and it was absolute robbery) the Staal trade you could argue was even better. Sutter turned into Bonino and him Dumoulin were huge in their cup runs!
vic997 liked this.
Jul 30 at 11:40
#4
Thread Starter
Joined: Jun 2017
Posts: 421
Likes: 121
Quoting: pharrow
"MAF was abolustely horrendous for 3-4 straight playoffs with absolutely stacked Pens rosters."

^ this right here is why MAF is in Vegas and the penguins play Murray


what's your point? I honestly think Murray is just as good if not better than MAF.
The Pens did not have bad teams throughout those 3-4 years. In fact, I'd even say those teams were even better than our current lineup today.
MAF picked up his game afterwards and played extremely well when he was splitting with Murray in the playoffs.
Jul 30 at 11:41
#5
Thread Starter
Joined: Jun 2017
Posts: 421
Likes: 121
Quoting: Hissam87
As good as the Neal trade was(and it was absolute robbery) the Staal trade you could argue was even better. Sutter turned into Bonino and him Dumoulin were huge in their cup runs!


We have GMJR to thank for Bonino though smile
Dumo is the best piece from that trade imo
He's the best and most consistent defender on the Pens roster
Jul 30 at 11:42
#6
Thread Starter
Joined: Jun 2017
Posts: 421
Likes: 121
Quoting: cnb17
and now NJ is LOADED and could make a serious run for the Metro. Still don't think they beat the Caps out but the way Pitt is right now, they'd be lucky to make the playoffs. Defense is horrible and that bottom six may be worse. SMH


Shero has been absolutely killing it in NJ.
Jul 30 at 11:52
#7
Joined: Jul 2019
Posts: 189
Likes: 25
Shero served that one up on a platter and Rutherford took advantage of it.
Jul 30 at 11:59
#8
Thread Starter
Joined: Jun 2017
Posts: 421
Likes: 121
Quoting: Hissam87
Shero served that one up on a platter and Rutherford took advantage of it.


Shero wouldn't have signed JJ or Tanev at those terms
Jul 30 at 12:01
#9
Joined: Jul 2019
Posts: 189
Likes: 25
True that. As good as JR was during the cup runs he has matched that with stupidity the last couple years.
vic997 liked this.
Jul 30 at 12:06
#10
Joined: Nov 2018
Posts: 1,258
Likes: 275
The Staal Trade was so important because of the trade tree it started. Sutter got flipped for Bonino and Clendenning was part of the Hagelin Trade.
vic997 liked this.
Jul 30 at 12:14
#11
BrandonDubinskyGoat
Joined: Apr 2019
Posts: 2,164
Likes: 453
Quoting: pharrow
"MAF was abolustely horrendous for 3-4 straight playoffs with absolutely stacked Pens rosters."

^ this right here is why MAF is in Vegas and the penguins play Murray


You really shouldn’t be hating on Fleury. Yes, he had his lousy playoff runs but before 2012 and after 2014, he played really well. The Penguins lost him in the expansion draft because Murray was sensational, a young goalie who backstopped the team to 2 cups. If they didn’t have Murray, no doubt in my mind they would keep Fleury over DeSmith in the expansion draft.
Jul 30 at 12:16
#12
Joined: May 2019
Posts: 241
Likes: 110
I think Shero's best moments came when he was able to get "throw-in" players in these deals (Dupuis, Niskanen, etc.) that ended up being stars in their own right
Jul 30 at 12:24
#13
BrandonDubinskyGoat
Joined: Apr 2019
Posts: 2,164
Likes: 453
Quoting: cnb17
and now NJ is LOADED and could make a serious run for the Metro. Still don't think they beat the Caps out but the way Pitt is right now, they'd be lucky to make the playoffs. Defense is horrible and that bottom six may be worse. SMH


Quoting: cnb17
and now NJ is LOADED and could make a serious run for the Metro. Still don't think they beat the Caps out but the way Pitt is right now, they'd be lucky to make the playoffs. Defense is horrible and that bottom six may be worse. SMH


I don’t think the Penguins defense is that bad, only Johnson is the main concern. Honestly, I feel Evgeni Malkin will have the most impact on the team’s fate next season. If he bounces back and stays consistent by putting up 90-100 points, the Penguins will be a force to be reckoned with. If he continues to decline, the team will suffer.
Hissam87 and cnb17 liked this.
Jul 30 at 12:25
#14
BrandonDubinskyGoat
Joined: Apr 2019
Posts: 2,164
Likes: 453
Quoting: jspenc40
I think Shero's best moments came when he was able to get "throw-in" players in these deals (Dupuis, Niskanen, etc.) that ended up being stars in their own right


Don’t forget Niskanen finished top 10 in Norris voting in 2014. Heck of a defenseman who started off on the third pair. Kind of reminds of Schultz.
jspenc40 liked this.
Jul 30 at 12:29
#15
BrandonDubinskyGoat
Joined: Apr 2019
Posts: 2,164
Likes: 453
Quoting: pharrow
"MAF was abolustely horrendous for 3-4 straight playoffs with absolutely stacked Pens rosters."

^ this right here is why MAF is in Vegas and the penguins play Murray


Quoting: cnb17
and now NJ is LOADED and could make a serious run for the Metro. Still don't think they beat the Caps out but the way Pitt is right now, they'd be lucky to make the playoffs. Defense is horrible and that bottom six may be worse. SMH


Quoting: Hissam87
As good as the Neal trade was(and it was absolute robbery) the Staal trade you could argue was even better. Sutter turned into Bonino and him Dumoulin were huge in their cup runs!


Quoting: vic997
what's your point? I honestly think Murray is just as good if not better than MAF.
The Pens did not have bad teams throughout those 3-4 years. In fact, I'd even say those teams were even better than our current lineup today.
MAF picked up his game afterwards and played extremely well when he was splitting with Murray in the playoffs.


Quoting: dgfresh78
The Staal Trade was so important because of the trade tree it started. Sutter got flipped for Bonino and Clendenning was part of the Hagelin Trade.


Quoting: dgfresh78
The Staal Trade was so important because of the trade tree it started. Sutter got flipped for Bonino and Clendenning was part of the Hagelin Trade.


Quoting: jspenc40
I think Shero's best moments came when he was able to get "throw-in" players in these deals (Dupuis, Niskanen, etc.) that ended up being stars in their own right


Honestly I don’t think Shero was the reason why the Penguins didn’t win a cup from 2012-14 when they had loaded rosters. Those years it was honestly their cup to lose, and they lost it. One reason was due to Fleury’s big playoff pressure but the biggest problem was Bylsma. His stretch pass, dump and chase physical system didn’t fit the players on the team and it showed. He was just another stubborn man who refused to change his ways after winning the cup. Honestly if he coached even a tiny bit more competently, Crosby would have 6 cups instead of 3 and there would be no debate that he’s better than Toews!
Jul 30 at 12:33
#16
Joined: Nov 2018
Posts: 1,258
Likes: 275
Quoting: BrandonDubinskyGOAT
Honestly I don’t think Shero was the reason why the Penguins didn’t win a cup from 2012-14 when they had loaded rosters. Those years it was honestly their cup to lose, and they lost it. One reason was due to Fleury’s big playoff pressure but the biggest problem was Bylsma. His stretch pass, dump and chase physical system didn’t fit the players on the team and it showed. He was just another stubborn man who refused to change his ways after winning the cup. Honestly if he coached even a tiny bit more competently, Crosby would have 6 cups instead of 3 and there would be no debate that he’s better than Toews!


Fleury’s playoff meltdowns costed this franchise so many chances. There’s no reason they shouldn’t have won 2-3 cups between 09 and the lockout year. The league was still so far behind to the point that deploying Crosby, Malkin, and Staal on different lines was like playing chess when everyone else was playing checkers...all they needed were the right depth pieces which they had.
Jul 30 at 12:39
#17
BrandonDubinskyGoat
Joined: Apr 2019
Posts: 2,164
Likes: 453
Quoting: dgfresh78
Fleury’s playoff meltdowns costed this franchise so many chances. There’s no reason they shouldn’t have won 2-3 cups between 09 and the lockout year.


For me, 2011 was the biggest disappointment. That was Sidney Crosby at his absolute peak! The hit from David Steckel was an extremely blatant, dirty and intentional elbow to the head. The puck was no where in play and we all know he was never the same afterward. Not to mention Evgeni Malkin got his knee torn from a reckless play by Tyler Myers.
dgfresh78 liked this.
Jul 30 at 12:43
#18
Joined: Nov 2018
Posts: 1,258
Likes: 275
Quoting: BrandonDubinskyGOAT
For me, 2011 was the biggest disappointment. That was Sidney Crosby at his absolute peak! The hit from David Steckel was an extremely blatant, dirty and intentional elbow to the head. The puck was no where in play and we all know he was never the same afterward. Not to mention Evgeni Malkin got his knee torn from a reckless play by Tyler Myers.


I honestly believe that if Crosby, Malkin, and Staal stayed healthy and Fleury remained somewhat competent they could have won 3 in 4 years between 09-12.
Jul 30 at 12:52
#19
BrandonDubinskyGoat
Joined: Apr 2019
Posts: 2,164
Likes: 453
Quoting: dgfresh78
I honestly believe that if Crosby, Malkin, and Staal stayed healthy and Fleury remained somewhat competent they could have won 3 in 4 years between 09-12.


Without a doubt.
dgfresh78 liked this.
Jul 30 at 12:54
#20
BrandonDubinskyGoat
Joined: Apr 2019
Posts: 2,164
Likes: 453
Quoting: dgfresh78
I honestly believe that if Crosby, Malkin, and Staal stayed healthy and Fleury remained somewhat competent they could have won 3 in 4 years between 09-12.


Sid and Geno at their best we’re absolutely unmatchable, in my opinion that duo was even better than Kane and Toews. What’d you think?
Jul 30 at 12:55
#21
Joined: Nov 2018
Posts: 1,258
Likes: 275
Quoting: BrandonDubinskyGOAT
Sid and Geno at their best we’re absolutely unmatchable, in my opinion that duo was even better than Kane and Toews. What’d you think?


I think regardless of Cups or whatever Sid and Geno were better than Toews and Kane. There’s really never been any debate in my opinion.
Jul 30 at 12:56
#22
BrandonDubinskyGoat
Joined: Apr 2019
Posts: 2,164
Likes: 453
Quoting: dgfresh78
I think regardless of Cups or whatever Sid and Geno were better than Toews and Kane. There’s really never been any debate in my opinion.


I agree. Do you think Sid & Geno will be better than Matthews & Tavares?
Jul 30 at 12:59
#23
Joined: Nov 2018
Posts: 1,258
Likes: 275
Quoting: BrandonDubinskyGOAT
I agree. Do you think Sid & Geno will be better than Matthews & Tavares?


I do the only thing that is different in Toronto is that the supporting cast is elite. But I’d still take Sid and Geno in their primes over Matthews and Tavares. This is coming from someone who basically worships what Kyle Dubas is doing in Toronto.
Jul 30 at 1:00
#24
Joined: Jun 2018
Posts: 7,388
Likes: 1,487
Quoting: vic997
what's your point? I honestly think Murray is just as good if not better than MAF.
The Pens did not have bad teams throughout those 3-4 years. In fact, I'd even say those teams were even better than our current lineup today.
MAF picked up his game afterwards and played extremely well when he was splitting with Murray in the playoffs.


what's the point? Exactly what I said is the point. MAF was sent packing because Murray didn't blow it in the playoffs year after year.
vic997 liked this.
Jul 30 at 1:02
#25
Joined: May 2019
Posts: 241
Likes: 110
Quoting: BrandonDubinskyGOAT
Don’t forget Niskanen finished top 10 in Norris voting in 2014. Heck of a defenseman who started off on the third pair. Kind of reminds of Schultz.


Glad he waited until DC to get his Cup though
 
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