Listen, I know who Dobson is but he is no Sandin. Sandin is the second comming of Nic Lidstrom or Borge Salming and you can take your pick. Dobson is a good young defenceman but does not have the upside of Sandin.

So you're biased then

Actually calling Sandin the second coming of Lidström sounds hilarious as f*ck.

The only Swedish D that'll compare to him is Dahlin...

You can see the difference between Dobson and Sandin in one thing and that is the fact that NYI didn't let Dobson go to the 2020 WJC tournament, because he was too important factor as a NHL player after his first year coming off juniors. In which he dominated btw,

Sandin's current achievements are either from that WJC tournament in which NYI didn't let Dobson partake or from the AHL.

I don't see Sandin being any way better D in future than Dobson is.

What are you talking about???? To my mind there is no comparison between the two players and that the Sandman is vastly superior. Dobson is good but he is not going to be a great defenceman like Sandin and certainly not while playing on the Islanders. Sandin was the top defenceman in the world junior tournament and if the Islanders had half a brain they would have let Dobson play in the tournament as well but instead they are choosing to ruin him which they are really good at not developing young players.

Blues decline.

It's a different situation when the player is too important to risk his health.

As for your opinion regarding the two, there's no helping a biased one.

Why are the Penguins losing their goalie for free? Is Toronto the only team that they are allowed to deal with?
If he resigns and is taken in the expansion draft then it is basically exactly the same as your bad trade offer. The Pens keep a vet goalie for next year (vs Anderson), then don't have some other ok player picked in the ED (vs Johnsson). Actually, having Murray picked in the ED would save the Pens the 3rd compared to your trade. So it would be a better option than your trade suggestion.

Thanks for pushing your bad trade offer until it was completely debunked.

And I said "Then keep your "better" goalie."


... or are you just trying to talk yourself into that? Oh, sorry... continue...

I don't get your logic, but whatever.

They either lose him for free, or they get a minimum offer...

If you want a good value deal for Murray, I don't see you getting much better than this... A clear 1G for next year's playoff run and a decent mid-6 winger for Murray is easily the best you could get.

I previously explained why this deal works for Pens (you might want to take a look).

Now that there's a lot of goalies in the market, Pens will not receive high value for Murray...especially after his bad year.

Don't think the Isles take this. Not the worst value but Dobson is held in very high regard. We also aren't getting back legitimate forward help. Giving up Bellows, who looked promising while up for little bit this season, makes it even less palatable.

A. Make your trade
vs
B. Resign Murray, he is picked in the ED

A. Have Anderson for next year then he is gone (UFA)
B. Have Murray for next year then he is gone (via ED)
Net: zero

A. Have Johnsson but someone other than Murray is taken (most likely a F based on projected protection list) so +1 F in Johnsson, -1 F in whoever gets taken (potentially Johnsson himself), +1 -1 = 0 change at F
B. Murray taken so no F taken, 0 change at F
Net: zero

A. Pens sent a 3rd to Toronto
B. Pens keep the 3rd
Net: Pens have the 3rd

Therefore: Net zero + net zero + 3rd = Pens ahead by a 3rd by not doing your trade and just settling for having Murray lost "for free" in the ED. They end up with more by not doing your trade.

What part of this logic do you not get?

There no bias here just plain truth. You need to get yourself into reality because you are out to lunch.

Anyone: That's not a good idea.
justaBoss: You're obviously just biased. (On a message board which is based on people posting and discussing non-measurable trade value of players.)

He has blasted people a few times for being biased. Someone must have told him that that was a good debate tactic or something. That person was wrong.

Nothing prevents you from re-signing Andersen.

Probably going to be slightly cheaper option, really.

Also I believe Johnsson will belong to those 7 forwards that'll get protected. Imo they'll protect Crosby, Malkin, Guentzel, Zucker, Rust, McCann, Johnsson, Letang, Dumoulin, Pettersson and Jarry.

You'd lose one player regardless in the ED, so adding it to a minus value for this trade is just stupid. This trade have nothing go to do with the fact - it only helps you in way that you won't be losing a good asset in Murray. You'd probably lose someone like Simon or Blueger anyway, no matter whether you do this trade or some other Murray trade, really.

Also it's likely that Pens will do some move strengthening move anyway, and gaining a Johnsson level player for a 3rd should be a good deal a in itself.

What has Sandin achieved that Dobson haven't in your eyes that makes him "a much potential player."

Oh f*ck off I'm not flaming anyone in here. He has provided NOTHING but his own opinion regarding Sandin being the better option than Dobson is.

You don't seem to understand that other teams could also make deals for Murray. If your deal only (at best) leaves us slightly ahead, why not trade with a team like Detroit or Ottawa that could give us a significantly better package of futures or players better than Mango. If we trade Murray, it means they're confident enough in Jarry to make him the #1, therefore no need to add another goalie

I literally said there and few comments above that Murray can be dealt to other teams as well - however I'm quite certain that Pens will not receive much better package than this...a goalie that is pretty much as good as Murray is and a depth winger.

I dunno what you think you'd get of these mentioned teams but I'd advise you to not get your hopes too high...goalie market is low this year due to many options being there and Murray's very subpar year lowers further his value.

Nothing prevents the Pens from signing Anderson even if they don't trade for him He will be a UFA.



That's why I said "potentially Johnsson himself" But it is still basically a wash.



Yeah, I basically covered all of that. I just said that Johnsson might be the one taken.



But that wouldn't be the offset. It would be the 3rd PLUS whoever was taken in the ED for Johnsson. Which, again, if it is Johnson it is just the Pens losing the 3rd for nothing.

In the end, as clearly outlined... this trade does not help the Pens and they pass.

I didn't say that you were flaming anyone, where did I say that you were flaming anyone? I said that you are using flawed discussion and debate tactics.

However, I do like that you tell me to f off then immediately say that you are not flaming anyone.

Or TOR just re-signs him themselves. That's an option for them as well.



Yeah that's a wash



Why it would be PLUS someone when you'd lose someone anyway? And as clarified, the player you'd lose won't be anyone substantial. Johnsson is an upgrade over every potential player that might get picked...if the 3rd is the biggest issue, then just drop the pick. Main idea of the trade was a goalie that doesn't need to protected and a long-term depth asset in exchange a goalie that'll be taken and a cap dump...plenty of logic if you ask me.



Its not a flawed discussion when there's a clear bias in his/her opinion. They provided nothing of value in the discussion, unlike you did, which I hate to admit.

You're probably the biggest smartass I've ever dealt with on this site.

Anyone can, simply proving that your argument doesn't hold water.



Just thorough, and I do enjoy pointing out when others are not.

Anyone can at the point he hits the free agency, which I doubt ever happens.

It's his last potentially "big" $ contract. Unless the offer is super he goes to free agency.

He'll be 32 by the time his new contract would start running... If TOR don't go after a younger G, could see them offering him a 3-4 year deal, with $5-6M cap hit.

He'd have pretty much no reason to decline...unless he wants to head to a team that actually can defend lol.