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How will this work ifwhen injuries hit

Created by: BigDaddyOvech
Team: 2020-21 Toronto Maple Leafs
Initial Creation Date: Nov. 5, 2020
Published: Nov. 5, 2020
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Ok I need some help understanding how this will work. So I get that they will probably ice a 21 man roster for opening night and we can debate who will be on it but I just picked this group for now. Performance in training camp will ultimate determine who's on the roster and who's not. I understand the concept of accruing cap savings as the days go by. But how will they make it work if injuries start to happen early? Especially how can it work if the injuries aren't serious enough to go on LTIR? I'm under the impression that players on the IR still count against the cap unless they go down. is that true or am I wrong?
If that's the case they wouldn't expose someone like Holl or Kerfoot to waivers right? Would they realistically consider icing a team with less than 20 skaters some nights?

Thanks just trying to learn!
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ROSTER SIZESALARY CAPCAP HITOVERAGES TooltipBONUSESCAP SPACE
18$81,500,000$81,074,741$0$0$425,259
Left WingCentreRight Wing
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$2,250,000$2,250,000
RW, LW
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C, LW
NMC
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RW
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$925,000$925,000
RW, LW
UFA - 1
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$900,000$900,000
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C, LW
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LD
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G
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$874,125$874,125
LD/RD
UFA - 1
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$1,000,000$1,000,000
RD
NTC
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LW, C, RW
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Nov. 5, 2020 at 2:13 p.m.
#1
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There will be more then 23 man rosters this season. They'll have reserve teams like baseball except there will be some way to avoid overages I assume. No team can run just a 23 man roster this upcoming season unless they play well under 40 games. Goalies will specifically be a problem
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Nov. 5, 2020 at 2:16 p.m.
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Even if there is a 21 man roster, I'm pretty sure they can do "emergency callups" or like player loans that don't technically count against the cap? I could be wrong though. They have lots of guys who are waiver exempt so they can just bounce them up and down 24/7 regardless.

Quoting: Jack_
There will be more then 23 man rosters this season. They'll have reserve teams like baseball except there will be some way to avoid overages I assume. No team can run just a 23 man roster this upcoming season unless they play well under 40 games. Goalies will specifically be a problem


this will prob be the case though ^ taxi squads
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Nov. 5, 2020 at 2:16 p.m.
#3
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Quoting: Jack_
There will be more then 23 man rosters this season. They'll have reserve teams like baseball except there will be some way to avoid overages I assume. No team can run just a 23 man roster this upcoming season unless they play well under 40 games. Goalies will specifically be a problem


So far nothing is confirmed in terms of how that would work with the cap though correct? Could really work to the Leafs advantage if they had a taxi squad that was essentially waivers exempt but could move cap on and off the roster.
Nov. 5, 2020 at 2:17 p.m.
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Quoting: Lyle_Bubas
Even if there is a 21 man roster, I'm pretty sure they can do "emergency callups" or like player loans that don't technically count against the cap? They have lots of guys who are waiver exempt so they can just bounce them up and down 24/7


I get that. in my example above they don't have enough cap space left to call up anyone, even at min contract. That's where I get confused.
Nov. 5, 2020 at 2:23 p.m.
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Quoting: BigDaddyOvech
So far nothing is confirmed in terms of how that would work with the cap though correct? Could really work to the Leafs advantage if they had a taxi squad that was essentially waivers exempt but could move cap on and off the roster.


This could be situational but if they change the amount of time a player has to stay on LTIR the leafs could play the majority of the season while rotating Rielly, Muzzin and Brodie on LTIR one at a time so they'll mostly have an extra 5 million in space. Any combo of MR, JM and TJB with Holl, Dermott, Lehtonen, Bogo, Sandin and Liljegren is average but they would be able to maneuver pretty much a 24 man roster since 1 guy will always be on LTIR and have an extra 5 mill in space. That means they could add someone big for the playoffs and everyone would be rested
Nov. 5, 2020 at 2:39 p.m.
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Quoting: Jack_
This could be situational but if they change the amount of time a player has to stay on LTIR the leafs could play the majority of the season while rotating Rielly, Muzzin and Brodie on LTIR one at a time so they'll mostly have an extra 5 million in space. Any combo of MR, JM and TJB with Holl, Dermott, Lehtonen, Bogo, Sandin and Liljegren is average but they would be able to maneuver pretty much a 24 man roster since 1 guy will always be on LTIR and have an extra 5 mill in space. That means they could add someone big for the playoffs and everyone would be rested


I doubt this is the solution. The league has challenged teams before on their use of LTIR (Lupul, Hossa), so I doubt they allow teams to start using it with more or less healthy players.
Nov. 5, 2020 at 2:46 p.m.
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Quoting: BigDaddyOvech
I get that. in my example above they don't have enough cap space left to call up anyone, even at min contract. That's where I get confused.


I've been wondering the same thing. I assume Pridham and Dubas have a better idea then the rest of us in terms of the upcoming season. I wouldn't be surprised if the NHL/NHLPA opened up some different rules around callups and emergency callups, etc. considering more then half the league was been burdened by the flat cap.

I was always under the impression emergency callups/loans happened when a team already had a 23 man roster (otherwise the team hasn't really been managing their cap correctly), but it would make sense if a rule like this one changes this year.

NFL changed the size of their practice squads, and how their IR works. If the NHL doesn't return in a bubble, then players getting COVID is inevitable, so some rules will have to be altered.

At the end of the day, I'm thinking Lehtonen and Barabanov are going to be bouncing back and forth pretty regularly, and Leafs are likely hoping for good health for first stretch of the season.
Nov. 5, 2020 at 2:49 p.m.
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Quoting: Jack_
This could be situational but if they change the amount of time a player has to stay on LTIR the leafs could play the majority of the season while rotating Rielly, Muzzin and Brodie on LTIR one at a time so they'll mostly have an extra 5 million in space. Any combo of MR, JM and TJB with Holl, Dermott, Lehtonen, Bogo, Sandin and Liljegren is average but they would be able to maneuver pretty much a 24 man roster since 1 guy will always be on LTIR and have an extra 5 mill in space. That means they could add someone big for the playoffs and everyone would be rested

The problem with this is you have to be INJURED to go on the long term INJURED reserve... it's not something you can just use to hide cap for healthy players lmfao
Nov. 5, 2020 at 2:54 p.m.
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Quoting: Barilko14
I've been wondering the same thing. I assume Pridham and Dubas have a better idea then the rest of us in terms of the upcoming season. I wouldn't be surprised if the NHL/NHLPA opened up some different rules around callups and emergency callups, etc. considering more then half the league was been burdened by the flat cap.

I was always under the impression emergency callups/loans happened when a team already had a 23 man roster (otherwise the team hasn't really been managing their cap correctly), but it would make sense if a rule like this one changes this year.

NFL changed the size of their practice squads, and how their IR works. If the NHL doesn't return in a bubble, then players getting COVID is inevitable, so some rules will have to be altered.

At the end of the day, I'm thinking Lehtonen and Barabanov are going to be bouncing back and forth pretty regularly, and Leafs are likely hoping for good health for first stretch of the season.


All good points. It will be interesting for sure to learn what they will come up with. I didn't think there was a straight forward answer right now but I wanted to see if anyone else was thinking about how they would navigate throughout the year.
Nov. 5, 2020 at 3:33 p.m.
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Quoting: Alfie11
The problem with this is you have to be INJURED to go on the long term INJURED reserve... it's not something you can just use to hide cap for healthy players lmfao


That's not true and they can always make something up. Theres hundreds of injuries that players play through that could be just thrown on ltir

Lmao I dont think you've been watching the league at all over the past few years
Nov. 5, 2020 at 4:03 p.m.
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Quoting: Jack_
That's not true and they can always make something up. Theres hundreds of injuries that players play through that could be just thrown on ltir

Lmao I dont think you've been watching the league at all over the past few years


And there is a minimum you have to be on the LTIR. Can't imagine the players would want to "take a turn" being on LTIR. Plus, if the Leafs constantly rotated someone there as you suggest they most certainly will get investigated by the league.
Nov. 5, 2020 at 4:41 p.m.
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Quoting: BigDaddyOvech
And there is a minimum you have to be on the LTIR. Can't imagine the players would want to "take a turn" being on LTIR. Plus, if the Leafs constantly rotated someone there as you suggest they most certainly will get investigated by the league.


With the shortened season it would mean one of those 3 guys each spends one stint on LTIR. I dont think it would be 30 days like it usually would be in could see it being 20 days.
Nov. 5, 2020 at 5:11 p.m.
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Quoting: Jack_
That's not true and they can always make something up. Theres hundreds of injuries that players play through that could be just thrown on ltir

Lmao I dont think you've been watching the league at all over the past few years

If they’re fit to play they will be playing, and your defense is clearly not good without all three of Rielly/Muzzin/Brodie in the lineup (only had Rielly/Muzzin last year and it sucked). Bs injuries will get you smacked with repercussions by the league, not to mention that the doctors would have to lie about them being fit to play (all sorts of issues there), and I’ll bet you’ll have a hard time convincing a healthy high-level player to take three weeks off mid-season once, let alone every 9 weeks. If they have an actual injury then you’ll have some cap savings but what you are describing is blatant fraud and will never happen, or if it does the Leafs will get eviscerated by penalties and become the laughingstock of the league.
Nov. 5, 2020 at 5:16 p.m.
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Quoting: Alfie11
If they’re fit to play they will be playing, and your defense is clearly not good without all three of Rielly/Muzzin/Brodie in the lineup (only had Rielly/Muzzin last year and it sucked). Bs injuries will get you smacked with repercussions by the league, not to mention that the doctors would have to lie about them being fit to play (all sorts of issues there), and I’ll bet you’ll have a hard time convincing a healthy high-level player to take three weeks off mid-season once, let alone every 9 weeks. If they have an actual injury then you’ll have some cap savings but what you are describing is blatant fraud and will never happen, or if it does the Leafs will get eviscerated by penalties and become the laughingstock of the league.


Lmao you clearly havent watched the nhl at all tears of joy tears of joy tears of joy you just described things that all nhl teams do every season. The leafs d wasnt trash this season, they were at worst league average and had Muzzin and Rielly both miss significant time. I never said all 3 would sit out at the same time. I can tell your a sens fan but not every nhl team has to consider folding at the sight of a fine.
Nov. 5, 2020 at 5:24 p.m.
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Quoting: Jack_
Lmao you clearly havent watched the nhl at all tears of joy tears of joy tears of joy you just described things that all nhl teams do every season. The leafs d wasnt trash this season, they were at worst league average and had Muzzin and Rielly both miss significant time. I never said all 3 would sit out at the same time. I can tell your a sens fan but not every nhl team has to consider folding at the sight of a fine.

You for real? People that are injured sit out. These guys are so competitive that the second they are physically able to, they’re back in the lineup. Nobody is gonna take a third of the year off just for fun, they will all demand a trade if they’re asked to do that. The Leafs literally gave up the third most goals per game last year, only ahead of the two worst teams in the league, there’s literally no argument for it being league average. Fancy stats don’t matter if they give up that many goals. And I never said they would fold, I just said you ruin your entire reputation by blatantly cheating, and while I don’t know what the penalties would be, any sane organization would prefer to avoid large fines and/or picks being taken away, likely resulting in several front office people/doctors being fired. This is an idiotic “plan” you have and it won’t happen.
 
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