What do you think?

Forums/Armchair-GM

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Created by: Canadian_Rednek

Team: 2016-17 Toronto Maple Leafs

Initial Creation Date: Dec. 31, 2016

Published: Dec. 31, 2016

Salary Cap Mode: Basic

Description

Ok first trade is both teams working from positions of strength. Carolina has a ton of good young Dmen in both the NHL and in their system. Faulk is possibly the best of them right now but should be surpassed in that role shortly. Carrick is an up and comer that should fit right in with the rest of the young guys and JVR gives them a offensive boost.
The second and third trades go together. Chicago needs to dump Kruger's contact and could use help on D and Kruger gives the Leafs a good 3C. They lose some offence but Kruger plays a much better 200ft game and can kill penalties. Arizona has tons of Cs coming through the system but needs a stopgap to fill that role until hey are ready to take over. Stone upgrades the 3rd pairing for a playoff push this year.
The fourth trade is where it gets interesting. Anaheim needs good cheap offence and the Leafs need defensive help. Theodore gives the Leafs a very good defensive group and should develop into a very good top 4 guy or even a top 2 guy in a couple of years, right around when Gardiner's contract is up. Basically he improves the team now and more in the future. Now to get that kind of talent one needs to give up talent. Nylander is a very good player and has tremendous skill but the Leafs have tons of talent and especially at RW.
These trades obviously take away from the Leafs strength of an overwhelming offence. But Kapanen should be able to mostly fill Nylander's role and the team should become a defensive force and be able to more resemble a Mike Babcock type of team that has a chance to play in the playoffs and maybe do more than just make it.
Feel free to comment I'd be happy to explain my thinking further.

Trades

TOR

Faulk, Justin
Nordström, Joakim
2017 3rd round pick (CAR)

CAR

TOR

Krüger, Marcus

CHI

Polák, Roman ($1,125,000 retained)

TOR

Stone, Michael
2017 3rd round pick (DET)

ARI

Bozak, Tyler

TOR

ANA

Buyouts

Tim Gleason: $1,333,333
Mikhail Grabovski: $0
Jared Cowen: -$650,000

Retained Salary Transactions

Phil Kessel: $1,200,000 (15%)
Roman Polák: $1,125,000 (50%)

Buried

Nate Thompson: $650,000 ($1,600,000)
Brooks Laich: $3,550,000 ($4,500,000)
Milan Michalek: $3,050,000 ($4,000,000)
Colin Greening: $1,700,000 ($2,650,000)

Draft	Round 1	Round 2	Round 3	Round 4	Round 5	Round 6	Round 7
2017
2018
2019

ROSTER

LONG-TERM OUTLOOK

EMBED

TEXT-EMBED

ROSTER SIZE	SALARY CAP	CAP HIT	OVERAGES	BONUSES	CAP SPACE
23	$73,000,000	$57,452,832	$512,000	$4,915,000	$15,547,168

Left Wing	Centre	Right Wing
Hyman, Zach $900,000$900,000 RW, LW UFA - 1	Kadri, Nazem $4,500,000$4,500,000 C UFA - 6	Marner, Mitchell $894,167$894,167 ($850,000$850K) RW UFA - 3
Nordström, Joakim $1,275,000$1,275,000 LW, RW UFA - 2	Matthews, Auston $925,000$925,000 ($2,850,000$3M) C UFA - 3	Kapanen, Kasperi $863,333$863,333 RW UFA - 3
Komarov, Leo $2,950,000$2,950,000 RW, LW, C UFA - 2	Krüger, Marcus $2,775,000$2,775,000 C UFA - 3	Brown, Connor $686,667$686,667 ($182,500$182K) RW, LW UFA - 1
Martin, Matt $2,500,000$2,500,000 LW, RW UFA - 4	Gauthier, Frédérik $863,333$863,333 C UFA - 2	Soshnikov, Nikita $736,666$736,666 ($182,500$182K) RW UFA - 2
	Smith, Ben $675,000$675,000 RW, C UFA - 1

Left Defense	Right Defense	Goaltender
Rielly, Morgan $5,000,000$5,000,000 LD UFA - 6	Faulk, Justin $4,150,000$4,150,000 RD UFA - 4	Andersen, Frederik $5,000,000$5,000,000 G UFA - 5
Gardiner, Jake $4,050,000$4,050,000 LD UFA - 3	Zaitsev, Nikita $925,000$925,000 ($850,000$850K) RD UFA - 1
Theodore, Shea $863,333$863,333 LD/RD UFA - 2	Stone, Michael $2,000,000$2,000,000 RD UFA - 1	Tokarski, Dustin $600,000$600,000 G UFA - 1
Marincin, Martin $1,250,000$1,250,000 LD UFA - 2	Corrado, Frank $600,000$600,000 RD UFA - 1

Scratches	Injured Reserve (IR)	Long Term IR (LTIR)
		Lupul, Joffrey $5,250,000$5,250,000 LW, RW M-NTC UFA - 2
		Horton, Nathan $5,300,000$5,300,000 RW NMC UFA - 4
		Robidas, Stephane $3,000,000$3,000,000 RD M-NTC UFA - 1

Dec. 31, 2016 at 4:19 p.m.

LoovTrain

Joined: May 2015

Posts: 225

Likes: 13

1) Carolina says no.
2) Ok I guess
3) Leafs sign Stone as a UFA if they want him.
4) No... not even close from a Leafs perspective.

Dec. 31, 2016 at 4:44 p.m.

Elleaf

Joined: Dec. 2016

Posts: 19

Likes: 1

Trade n1 : I love it as a leafs fan. May Canes fan give their opinion on it.
Trade n2 : sure why not. I like it.
Trade n3 : don't think it benefits TO tbh.
Trade n4 : WHY CAN'T PEOPLE ENJOY HAVING NICE THINGS. DON'T TRADE WILLIAM NYLANDER. NERVER. EVER.

Dec. 31, 2016 at 4:50 p.m.

Canadian_Rednek

Thread Starter

Joined: Nov. 2016

Posts: 570

Likes: 71

Why Loov?
1) if Carolina has any hope of getting into the playoffs they need to be able to score. Faulk would be that price and they are getting a 3rd pairing guy with top 4 potential, just needs some coaching.
3) sure they can but that doesn't help them in a playoff push this year.
4) Theodore is going to be a stud and should easily replace Gardiner in a few years and hey have tons of talent on RW. So what makes it close?

Dec. 31, 2016 at 4:58 p.m.

clark

Joined: Nov. 2016

Posts: 2,933

Likes: 362

1, Carolina says NO. Carrick an up can comer is debatable.
2. Leafs need another centre...NOT. Matthews, Kadri, Bozak, Gauthier, and probably Nylander is at centre next year
3. Just what the last place Coyotes need, a veteran with salary. They will be looking for youth for Stone.
4. Leafs are going with Bibeau in as their back up. How many goalies do the Leafs have in their system now, six, and want another. Extracting the extras the guts of the trade is Nylander for Theodore. Theodore a LHD, don't the Leafs have enough of those on the NHL and AHL roster. Theodore has not secured an NHL job this year. Nylander is either the second line RWer or centre of the future for the Leafs.
Elleaf, said it best. Nylander could be traded but it should be for something of value.

Dec. 31, 2016 at 5:24 p.m.

BStone67

Joined: Nov. 2016

Posts: 291

Likes: 12

The Leafs have a strong LHD pipeline with Nielsen, Dermott and Valiev, plus Loov as a possible 7th D if not better. You addressed the RHD but maybe a little too much, since that would mean Stone making 4m+ at the end of the season, Zaitsev earning possibly just around there, Faulk with a 4.8m cap, and then Gardiner and Rielly with 4.05 and 5 million respectively. That's probably around 21 million dollars on the defense that you can't spend on Marner or Matthews. So what if you trade Gardiner - who is playing some nights as the top dman and putting up solid numbers - trading him means that you still have Theodore who might not ever really become a solid spot and god forbid he does because he'll want a lot of money, and then if even ONE of Nielsen, Dermott or Valiev becomes a solid Dman then you have probably another big cap to swallow or you're trading away one of the guys you just got or giving up on the future that the Leafs have so heavily invested in.
Not to mention Nylander has MUCH higher value than that.

Dec. 31, 2016 at 5:29 p.m.

Canadian_Rednek

Thread Starter

Joined: Nov. 2016

Posts: 570

Likes: 71

Clark:
1) Carrick has should be a top 4 RD with a little coaching to fix some of his young man mental errors.
2) I traded Bozak so they only make this trade to fill his position. I also traded Nylander, who I think will more likely take a Galchenyuk type path to C and not be there next year.
3) it is what they need. You can't just fill out your roster with teenagers on ELCs. Ask Edmonton how that works. And they struggle to get to the cap floor every year so salary helps and so would his face off prowess. They would love youth but I think Bozak is still a good trade for them.
4) assuming the first trade the Leafs don't have a lot of needs. This trade improves the Leafs 3rd pairing right now and improves their top 4 in the near future. He is better and younger than Marincin. I know that Nylander is a good player and will be for a long time but with Kadri and Matthews filling the top 1C and 2C roles for he foreseeable future and Marner, Kapanen and Brown, or one of their ample RW prospects should be able to fill he 1RW and 2RW roles so he's a very good bonus right now. As for the LD depth I think Theodore is going to be better than Gardiner which works out nicely as that should happen by the time Gardiner's contract is up. He is also further in his development than anyone in the Leafs system right now.

Dec. 31, 2016 at 5:34 p.m.

Canadian_Rednek

Thread Starter

Joined: Nov. 2016

Posts: 570

Likes: 71

BStone: I don't think the Leafs should resign Stone, he's just a rental. As for the LD depth I refer you to the last comment of my last response. And as for Nylander's value both are essentially considered untouchable so their values are closer than most people think.

Dec. 31, 2016 at 5:53 p.m.

palhal

LongtimeLeafsufferer

Joined: Jul. 2015

Posts: 60,705

Likes: 23,341

What? Carrick can be top four 4 Dman with a little coaching? He hasn't had any in Washington or with the Leafs? If he's that good and coachable maybe the Leafs should keep him and JVR. Geez

Theodore has indicated by Clark has had trouble breaking in with the Ducks. Maybe it's because the Ducks would prefer him playing in the AHL then limited minutes in the AHL. I don't know. But the Leafs do have their own hopefuls at LHD. In Watty's post, you suggested the Muzzin trade could be passed because the Leafs had more pressing needs than a LHD. Fair enough, but on your own post, you defend the Nylander for Theodore you defend that trade. Geez.

Dec. 31, 2016 at 6:06 p.m.

Canadian_Rednek

Thread Starter

Joined: Nov. 2016

Posts: 570

Likes: 71

Palhal, here we go again. He has obviously gotten coaching on both teams he has been apart of but he's young and still learning and with a little more coaching can be a top 4 dman.
And as for the Muzzin trade I was referring to the need at RD over LD and in this post I used the same guy (JVR) to solve that problem. Nylander for Theodore is a luxury trade at this point not a need.
Theodore has played in 20 games this season and plays behind a much better defence than Toronto has but I still think he is an upgrade over Marincin.

Dec. 31, 2016 at 6:56 p.m.

#10

BStone67

Joined: Nov. 2016

Posts: 291

Likes: 12

Marincin isn't playing, Hunwick is. You're literally being a fool by thinking Theodore is untouchable since he isn't doing well enough for a full time spot even this year. And if he's an upgrade over Marincin/Hunwick, wouldn't that mean he's an upgrade over Holzer/Stoner/Bieksa? Well he's not getting minutes over them in Anaheim and there's probably a reason. Nylander is great for the Leafs and is definitely untouchable, while Theodore could be available for the price of a rental winger more than likely. And WHY would the Leafs bring in Stone for a rental? You make these horrible trades that completely undervalue the Leafs and their rookies and then defend them with less than adequate arguments. I've called you out before for this but come on, you're starting to get a little out of hand. If you're posting for fun, then don't defend it tooth and nail and call people out, that's when you're going to get hell for it. And like palhal said, you said YOURSELF that the Leafs needed RHD and that the LHD was full in the pipeline, so you go and get Theodore to even FURTHER clog it? And Carolina wouldn't even take that trade. They need Faulk since he's the strongest defender on their team in most regards and a good stepping stone for the franchise, and what would JVR do for them? Add just another winger? JVR is more valuable to Cup contenders than to low placed/rebuilding teams.
Just... Stop being a hypocrite and stop criticizing people for telling you their opinions on your post.

Dec. 31, 2016 at 7:26 p.m.

#11

clark

Joined: Nov. 2016

Posts: 2,933

Likes: 362

As civil as people has tried to with Canadian Redneck, he seems to be so argumentative. Whether or not it deliberate, trolling or just can't see logic, I don't know.
I wouldn't would to cut any well meaning person off the site, but it is getting to the stage Mr Redneck is not well meaning. Might has well to ignore his ridiculous posts, and his comments.

BStone67 liked this.

Dec. 31, 2016 at 7:27 p.m.

#12

Canadian_Rednek

Thread Starter

Joined: Nov. 2016

Posts: 570

Likes: 71

1) Wow calm down I'm not criticizing anyone I am merely defending my position, it's called debating or disagreeing. Not everyone needs to have the same opinion. So why attack me for having a different one?
2) Marincin is on IR so that's why Hunwick is playing.
3) Theodore is Anaheim's too prospect and has played in a majority of their games this year. He may not have the consistency to play full time on a team with Cup aspirations right now but the Leafs don't have those aspirations yet and will have more patience with him.
4) I did say the Leafs need a RD and I tried to solve that issue first with not 1 trade but 2 so I'm nit sure what your point is?
5) the Leafs have lots of LD in the system that need a couple more years in the minors, Theodore does not and as I have previously stated Theodore bridges that gap and he should replace Gardiner when his contract is up where I don't think anyone else in the system will be able to take that load then.
6) JVR is one of the elite LW in the league not just another winger butwhat do I know I just undervalue people.
7) I'm not trying to undervalue players I'm trying to take my bias out of it.

Dec. 31, 2016 at 7:32 p.m.

#13

Canadian_Rednek

Thread Starter

Joined: Nov. 2016

Posts: 570

Likes: 71

I actually don't know how defending my post is a negative. I'm not trying to attack anyone just defend my point.

Jan. 1, 2017 at 11:40 a.m.

#14

clark

Joined: Nov. 2016

Posts: 2,933

Likes: 362

Quoting: Canadian_Rednek

I actually don't know how defending my post is a negative. I'm not trying to attack anyone just defend my point.

Previously I suggested that Canadian Redneck should just be ignored because you are just trolling to be argumentative. Your "defend my point" comment demonstrates that you don't want to take suggestions or the ability to learn from others, almost be definition is deliberately argumentative.

Jan. 1, 2017 at 1:19 p.m.

#15

Canadian_Rednek

Thread Starter

Joined: Nov. 2016

Posts: 570

Likes: 71

Clark I'm not being deliberately argumentative. I'm not trying to troll anyone. I'm just trying to put forth possible move the Maple Leafs could make. And defend my position as to why I think they should. If you go back and look at my previous post it will show you a progression that would coincide with what I thought were healthy debates about the teams future and I am willing to tweak or straight up change trades and some of my positions if I feel someone has shown me a better one. In this particular post I just disagree on the value of Faulk to the Hurricanes and still think JVR and Skinner would be one of the deadliest 1-2 pinches at LW in the league, among other things that were discussed. If you guys have taken offence from this than I am sorry but I don't think that defending my position and not wanting to take suggestions or have the ability to learn, one does not 'logically' follow the other. My next post should show you my willingness to accept others ideas and adapt to the changing circumstances that is the Leafs season. I hope we can have some more healthy debates and not call each other out next time. Which reminds me if I put your name in my comment it's because I'm responding to yours not because I'm calling you out. I do value other people's opinions and think this is a great site to talk hockey; one of my favourite subjects.

Jan. 1, 2017 at 2:49 p.m.

#16

DiehardRedWingsFan58

Banned

Joined: Jun. 2016

Posts: 33,053

Likes: 8,999

Edited Jan. 1, 2017 at 2:55 p.m. by Jarvis

JVR+Carrick doesn't get you Faulk to even get Ron Francis on the phone for Faulk it would take one of Nylander/Marner just to get the conversation started.

Jan. 2, 2017 at 7:46 a.m.

#17

LoovTrain

Joined: May 2015

Posts: 225

Likes: 13

Quoting: Canadian_Rednek

Sigh...

1) Carolina is not a contender. A vet scoring winger like JVR with 1.5 years left on a contract is not the return they would be looking for in trading a top 4 RD with 3.5 years left on a fair contract. Think young, controllable forwards... Carrick adds little to no value as Carolina has Carricks falling out of their A** . It would take one of the Holy Trinity and I don't make that trade because Faulk doesn't hold that kind of value with me... to wit, he wouldn't be the guy I would trade one of them for.
3) Your logic astounds me. How does trading Bozak help them in their "playoff push" this year? Are we that flush with Centres (even with Kruger)? (The correct answer is no btw). If they are making a "playoff push" you keep Bozak. If they are continuing to build for the longterm, you trade him to a contender for young, controllable futures, you don't trade him for a soon to be UFA who you could sign for free in 6 months. This is a waste of an asset for no good reason.
4) Forget the extraneous pieces... your trade boils down to Nylander for Theodore. What do we know about these players? Nylander is already a top 6 forward and Theodore can't make the NHL full-time yet. Does Theodore have potential? Indeed he does. Top-pairing potential? Possibly. But he is no lock and Nylander is and has demonstrated such already. Now, I could possibly understand trading Nylander for Theodore if you truly believed he was a LOCK to be a TOP 3 Dman... but he would have to be a TOP 3 RDman and Theodore isn't.

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Forums/Armchair-GM

What do you think?

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Trades

TOR

CAR

TOR

CHI

TOR

ARI

TOR

ANA

Buyouts

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