Buying out Skinners contract is a stupid idea. He can still be a productive player if he’s given proper linemates. Part of the reason he had a crappy season was the idiotic coach stuck him on the fourth line, and then kept him in the press box when he wasn’t scoring. He basically scored all of his goals after Ralph Krueger was fired. Even if he is destined to be bought out, there’s much too much time left on his contract for that to be feasible.

Okposo gets bought out if he does not retire. There’s no point in retaining on him in a trade when you can just get rid of him without giving up other assets. I’m not sure what the plan with Ristolainen is, but I doubt he yields a first round pick in a trade.

Calgary declines

I personally just think it would be better to get rid of skinner, yes he can be productive but everytime I watch him he just seems like he's lost his step and I'm not sure if he can get it back. Trading okposo makes more sense I think cause we basically keep the same cap hit over 2 years but we just get a different player (hence changing the locker room a bit).

I think Risto could definitely yield a first round pick especially with an added asset (remember the pick i added is 33rd overall)

There is a major difference between "a 1st round pick" and 12th over all.

If you’re giving up a 33rd overall pick with Risto just to get rid of him, that’s basically a first round pick already.

but the idea is to use him to move up

12th overall isn't something of massive value, 33rd and risto is plenty to get it done in my opinion

Nope, zero interest in moving 12th for Risto, maybe you can get Winnipegs 1st but not a top 15 pick

I agree risto on his own couldn't get it but thats why I added in 33rd which is also pretty good value. together i think it works

He thinks so little of Ristolainen, he’s trying to tell you that he has no value, or worse yet a negative value. Trading a late first equivalent with a guy who should be a top 4 defenseman just to move up only a few spots would be embarrassing.

Skinner scored 5 goals in 27GP after Kreuger was fired. That's 15 goals inan 82 game season. I'm willing to give Skinner one more year if Jack is back. Heck, I'll give him one more year anyway, just because of the investment. But if he's at the 14-15 goal mark yet again, buying him out is not stupid. You would save a TON of money. Just go look at the buyout calculator here...

2022-23 $2,500,000 $9,000,000 $7,500,000 $2,300,000 $9,800,000 $200,000 $8,800,000
2023-24 $10,000,000 $9,000,000 $0 $2,300,000 $2,300,000 $7,700,000 $1,300,000
2024-25 $10,000,000 $9,000,000 $0 $2,300,000 $2,300,000 $7,700,000 $1,300,000
2025-26 $7,000,000 $9,000,000 $0 $2,300,000 $2,300,000 $4,700,000 $4,300,000
2026-27 $5,000,000 $9,000,000 $0 $2,300,000 $2,300,000 $2,700,000 $6,300,000
2027-28 $0 $0 $0 $2,300,000 $2,300,000 -$2,300,000 $2,300,000
2028-29 $0 $0 $0 $2,300,000 $2,300,000 -$2,300,000 $2,300,000
2029-30 $0 $0 $0 $2,300,000 $2,300,000 -$2,300,000 $2,300,000
2030-31 $0 $0 $0 $2,300,000 $2,300,000 -$2,300,000 $2,300,000
2031-32 $0 $0 $0 $2,300,000 $2,300,000 -$2,300,000 $2,300,000


You are saving a ton of money for 5 years and then you bite the $2.3mm bullet for 5 seasons. It's not a dumb idea. I think there are alternatives though. I'd just bench him until he retires or removes his NMC.

No I don't think you are getting this, I am declining your offer. Risto would play 3rd pair and PP only in Calgary, that 1st is way more valuable to us. I am also fairly certain a team picking in this top 15 outside of maybe Philly is not looking to to trade way down for a pending UFA defenseman, and Philly really doesn't need a Risto style dman

No that's not what I'm saying at all

The thing about convincing him to waive his no movement clause is someone else has to be willing to take him. And no, retaining half his contract is also a stupid idea. Buying out his contract would hamstring the team for a decade. Since we are not trying to smash the league record for consecutive seasons with no playoffs, we are already poised to set a new one anyway. I see Skinner as a guy who can still put in 20 goals and 40 or 50 points in a full season. He may never be worth the money we’re paying him, but he’s worth more than buying him out.

We will see about that. In the 2022 buyout scenario, in 2023, you have $7.7mm. You can get 2-3 20 goal scorers with that kind of money. 60 >20.

NHL salary inflation in the last 20 years has really screwed up what a player’s value really is. It used to be a guy basically earned $1 million for every 10 goals he scores in a season. That’s an oversimplification, but it generally checks out. Now every guy who scores 20 goals thinks he’s a $5 million player, and guys who score 30 or more think they deserve $7-$10 million per season. This calculation doesn’t take into consideration the intangibles a guy might bring to the table, or assists and total points for that matter, so yeah it’s flawed. But it still stands up.

Umm, inflation happens... Botterill screwed up the Sabres. Two totally different things. Even if we double your metrics, Skinner would be worth $3mm. He was a gross overpay, and yes, seriously misused, but ROR >>>> Skinner. Blame Botterill, not "NHL salary inflation"

That’s not what I’m talking about. Consider that Skinner got the contract after scoring 40 goals in a season as well. There was no indication that he would have such a far drop off so immediately after that. The expectation was he could hit 30 goals a season going forward pretty easily if Jack continued to play well with him. I guess my point in relation was you can’t expect $7.5 million dollars to get you 2 20 goal scorers, it would get you one and a third liner who might score 10 goals.

Why would Detroit even consider doing that trade? Pánik is 3 years younger and can be traded at the deadline in his last year.

same cap hit for a similar player. all it is doing is changing the scenery for each player. they both have the same time left on their deals

And who do you think will regress the most, the 30 year old or the 33 year old?

In two years time Pánik will still be a half decent player while Okposo will be even more of a shell than he already is.

Nobody will give you anything back for Okposo, you'll have to pay for dumping his salary. It'll cost at least a 1st and a 2nd (or a bluechip prospect) for any team to take on his contract.

I disagree, I think a deal like this could get done, maybe panik is the wrong guy but I don't think it's too far off

If Nielsen had had 2 years left on his contract would you trade Okposo straight up for him? Nielsen is three years older than Kyle is.

It's not about the value the players have now, it's about the value they will have over the entire rest of their contract. Detroit is a rebuilding team they're not going to trade a younger player for an older one. Detroit will consider using their cap space for salary dumps but that's not free, it'll cost.

Yes I would do that :P.

I agree that cap dumps aren't for free, thats why washington had to give up a little extra in the mantha trade so that Panik could be dumped. That's not whats happening here though the salary stays almost exactly the same. Okposo's and Panik's production are also similar.

That's exactly what's happening here!

A 33 year old player will always regress faster than a 30 year old one!

The deal is you trying to get rid of a player that'll be totally useless for the next two years and get one back that still will be useful and pay a pittance for the privilege.

No team on this planet will accept that deal!

If you need to dump Okposo it'll cost you a 1st and a 2nd to get rid of him.