Forums/Armchair-GM

Younger Offense - More Stable defense

Created by: Dmh1055
Initial Creation Date: Jan. 5, 2022
Published: Jan. 5, 2022
Team: 2022-23 Philadelphia Flyers
Team Explanation
Line combinations are intriguing. But deployment will depend on game situations. Giroux will see PP time and time on the wing as needed. Hayes will be deployed as matchups call for it. I would expect he still gets about 15 to 20 mins a game. Even if not scoring he's clogging lanes and playing sound defensively. With those wings he's hardly on what I would expect to perform like a 4th line.

Added Manson, kept Braun and Ristolainen. This leaves room to account for an injury to Ellis. The third pair LD spot can go to Zamula if Ellis gets hurt or the Flyers can make a move for a 3 LD replacement level player, which should not be too difficult.
Free Agent Signings
RFAYEARSCAP HIT
Allison, Wade2$950,000
Lemieux, Brendan2$2,500,000
Sandström, Felix2$825,000
MacEwen, Zack2$900,000
Frost, Morgan2$1,075,000
UFAYEARSCAP HIT
Ristolainen, Rasmus5$3,750,000
Giroux, Claude5$4,500,000
Manson, Josh4$5,000,000
Braun, Justin2$1,800,000
Trades
1.
PHI
  1. Lemieux, Brendan [RFA Rights]
  2. 2022 2nd round pick (LAK)
LAK
  1. Sanheim, Travis
2.
PHI
  1. 2022 2nd round pick (NJD)
NJD
  1. van Riemsdyk, James ($3,500,000 retained)
Buyouts
  • Ilya Bryzgalov: $0
Retained Salary Transactions
  • James van Riemsdyk: $3,500,000 (50%)
DRAFT YEARROUND 1ROUND 2ROUND 3ROUND 4ROUND 5ROUND 6ROUND 7
2022
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2023
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2024
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ROSTER SIZESALARY CAPCAP HITOVERAGES TooltipBONUSESCAP SPACE
22$81,500,000$81,711,023$295,000$762,500-$211,023
Left WingCenterRight Wing
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Farabee, Joel
$5,000,000
LW, RW
UFA - 6
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Couturier, Sean
$7,750,000
C
NMC
UFA - 8
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Atkinson, Cam
$5,875,000
RW, LW
NTC
UFA - 3
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Desnoyers, Elliot
$825,000
LW
RFA - 3
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Giroux, Claude
$4,500,000
C, RW
UFA
Lemieux, Brendan
$2,500,000
LW, RW
RFA
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Lindblom, Oskar
$3,000,000
LW
RFA - 1
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Frost, Morgan
$1,075,000
C
RFA
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Konecny, Travis
$5,500,000
RW, LW
UFA - 3
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Laughton, Scott
$3,000,000
C, LW
UFA - 4
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Hayes, Kevin
$7,142,857
C
NTC
UFA - 4
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Foerster, Tyson
$863,333
C
RFA - 3
Left DefenseRight DefenseGoaltender
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York, Cam
$880,833
LD
RFA - 1
Manson, Josh
$5,000,000
RD
UFA
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Hart, Carter
$3,979,000
G
RFA - 2
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Provorov, Ivan
$6,750,000
LD
UFA - 3
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Ellis, Ryan
$6,250,000
RD
UFA - 5
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Sandström, Felix
$825,000
G
UFA - 2
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Braun, Justin
$1,800,000
RD
UFA
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Ristolainen, Rasmus
$3,750,000
RD
UFA - 5
ScratchesInjured Reserve (IR)Long Term IR (LTIR)
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Brown, Patrick
$750,000
C, RW
UFA - 1
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MacEwen, Zack
$900,000
C, RW
RFA

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Jan. 5 at 10:31 a.m.
#1
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Kings say yes very, very quickly. Or at least, I would if I was in charge of LA. I'm surprised at the low cost of Sanheim. Has he been that bad?
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Jan. 5 at 10:43 a.m.
#2
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Quoting: PuckLuck_77
Kings say yes very, very quickly. Or at least, I would if I was in charge of LA. I'm surprised at the low cost of Sanheim. Has he been that bad?


I don't think he's been that bad. I would much rather trade Sanheim for Vilardi and Lemieux but that seemed to be a no go. LA seems like a good trade partner for the Flyers on Sanheim.
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Jan. 5 at 10:45 a.m.
#3
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Devils pass
Jan. 5 at 10:50 a.m.
#4
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Quoting: Dmh1055
I don't think he's been that bad. I would much rather trade Sanheim for Vilardi and Lemieux but that seemed to be a no go. LA seems like a good trade partner for the Flyers on Sanheim.


The Kings are at such a weird juncture, from a fan perspective. They want to compete now, and start playing meaningful games for their youngsters. But they've hardly given their youngsters the time of day in the NHL. If it wasn't for 'Rona protocols, most of them would still be playing in the AHL until at least after the trade deadline. Which makes it very difficult to say they should or could trade any of them. Heck, they've even got Byfield in the AHL despite the fact he's clearly ready for the NHL. He missed 40% of the season because of injury, and with an ELC that can still slide a year, management probably won't even think about giving him more than 9 games unless they make a run in the playoffs.

With the Kings attempting to move Vilardi to the wing in the minors, I don't see them moving him until they feel they get an idea what he can provide there. That's probably why there was so much pushback. In addition, you won't get both of those players. But Lemieux and a 2nd is probably selling Sanheim short. Kings won't trade a 1st round pick, but I could see a more high-ceiling prospect/player going back instead of Lemieux. But if that's the guy you want, then I would be more than okay as a Kings fan. I like what Lemmy's brought and have been real surprised by his goal scoring, but I'm not gonna blind myself by what's likely a statistical anomaly of a season in his contract year.
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Jan. 5 at 11:00 a.m.
#5
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Quoting: PuckLuck_77
The Kings are at such a weird juncture, from a fan perspective. They want to compete now, and start playing meaningful games for their youngsters. But they've hardly given their youngsters the time of day in the NHL. If it wasn't for 'Rona protocols, most of them would still be playing in the AHL until at least after the trade deadline. Which makes it very difficult to say they should or could trade any of them. Heck, they've even got Byfield in the AHL despite the fact he's clearly ready for the NHL. He missed 40% of the season because of injury, and with an ELC that can still slide a year, management probably won't even think about giving him more than 9 games unless they make a run in the playoffs.

With the Kings attempting to move Vilardi to the wing in the minors, I don't see them moving him until they feel they get an idea what he can provide there. That's probably why there was so much pushback. In addition, you won't get both of those players. But Lemieux and a 2nd is probably selling Sanheim short. Kings won't trade a 1st round pick, but I could see a more high-ceiling prospect/player going back instead of Lemieux. But if that's the guy you want, then I would be more than okay as a Kings fan. I like what Lemmy's brought and have been real surprised by his goal scoring, but I'm not gonna blind myself by what's likely a statistical anomaly of a season in his contract year.


What have you seen from Lemieux that makes you think he can't do what he's doing statistically every year? I would think he can provide 15 to 20 goals a year while being a pain to play against night in and night out. He appears to be nowhere near the talent of his father but he still brings those other intangibles that a sleep walking Flyers team could use. Sanheim in this equation is being dealt likely for 2 2nd rounders. Is it short? It may be just right. If Sanheim was a RD we'd be having a totally different conversation on return and he likely isn't even available.
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Jan. 5 at 11:05 a.m.
#6
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ur lucky if a team give you a fourth for jvr
Jan. 5 at 11:07 a.m.
#7
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Edited Jan. 5 at 11:12 a.m.
Quoting: Pleau543
ur lucky if a team give you a fourth for jvr


A 20 goal scorer on a 1 year deal of $3.5 million since the Flyers are retaining will have some value. The Flyers will just have to be patient to find the team willing to make the deal. I assume a deal can be made shortly after the $1 million signing bonus is paid on July 1, 2022 and the excitement of free agency has past by.
Jan. 5 at 11:13 a.m.
#8
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Quoting: Dmh1055
What have you seen from Lemieux that makes you think he can't do what he's doing statistically every year? I would think he can provide 15 to 20 goals a year while being a pain to play against night in and night out. He appears to be nowhere near the talent of his father but he still brings those other intangibles that a sleep walking Flyers team could use. Sanheim in this equation is being dealt likely for 2 2nd rounders. Is it short? It may be just right. If Sanheim was a RD we'd be having a totally different conversation on return and he likely isn't even available.


Lemieux currently is on pace for 25+ goals in a full 82 game season (which won't happen because he's missed time, but that's just his pace). The closest he's gotten to that in the 4-5 ish year he's played in the league was an under 20 goal pace his rookie season. Other than that season, his average has been about 8-12 goals per year depending on how you do the math. No matter how you look at it, he's currently very much outplaying his career average, in what happens to be a contract year. It's nice to see as a Kings fan, and I hope it continues. I just don't expect it to. He's going to continue to get borderline 3rd/4th line minutes, and there don't happen to be many consistent 15-20 goal scorers on 3rd and 4th lines around the NHL.

I agree with the intangibles, though. Like I said, I really enjoy what he's brought to the Kings. They don't really have a guy to replace his attitude/willingness to stick up for a teammate. But I think their need for a high-ceiling LD outweighs their need for another bottom-6 guy that's taking time away from the prospects. And, to go back to your other post, I agree with LA and Philly being good trade partners for a guy like Sanheim. Our need is a high-ceiling LD, not RD.

Honestly, not sure about the two 2nd rounders. I saw all the talk about Vilardi for Sanheim, and I personally view Vilardi as someone with a pricetag of a 1st round pick + a good prospect. So it just seemed like this was on the low end of the price tags floating around for Sanheim. It's much more palatable for me.
Jan. 5 at 2:23 p.m.
#9
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Quoting: PuckLuck_77
Lemieux currently is on pace for 25+ goals in a full 82 game season (which won't happen because he's missed time, but that's just his pace). The closest he's gotten to that in the 4-5 ish year he's played in the league was an under 20 goal pace his rookie season. Other than that season, his average has been about 8-12 goals per year depending on how you do the math. No matter how you look at it, he's currently very much outplaying his career average, in what happens to be a contract year. It's nice to see as a Kings fan, and I hope it continues. I just don't expect it to. He's going to continue to get borderline 3rd/4th line minutes, and there don't happen to be many consistent 15-20 goal scorers on 3rd and 4th lines around the NHL.

I agree with the intangibles, though. Like I said, I really enjoy what he's brought to the Kings. They don't really have a guy to replace his attitude/willingness to stick up for a teammate. But I think their need for a high-ceiling LD outweighs their need for another bottom-6 guy that's taking time away from the prospects. And, to go back to your other post, I agree with LA and Philly being good trade partners for a guy like Sanheim. Our need is a high-ceiling LD, not RD.

Honestly, not sure about the two 2nd rounders. I saw all the talk about Vilardi for Sanheim, and I personally view Vilardi as someone with a pricetag of a 1st round pick + a good prospect. So it just seemed like this was on the low end of the price tags floating around for Sanheim. It's much more palatable for me.


I don't think LA will get a 1st round pick and a good prospect for Vilardi. Maybe only 1 of those and most likely it'll be a 1st round pick from another team that is still a project. In June, it'll be 5 years since Vilardi was drafted in 2017. 1st round pick forwards usually have made the NHL by now. The 2017 draft is looking very light on the return from forwards in that draft class. The value of the players who have not made the league or have not done much since being drafted in 2017 is plummeting rapidly.

I would argue that Lemieux is a 3rd line wing in his current state. He's not a 4th liner at all. He threatens to have 2nd line potential. Looking at Lemieux's stats it seems that the 3 teams he has been on have not always trusted him to play in his natural role. Either he was taking too many penalties or still working on his defensive zone play as a a young player. It's probably a bit of both. He's been traded in season twice in his career, which has had to affect him in some way. For being drafted with lower expectations and even considering he was drafted 3 years earlier than Vilardi, Lemieux still made much more of an impact at the NHL level than Vilardi has at the same age. At age 26, I would project a reasonable expectation that Lemieux can score 15 to 20 goals a year for the next 4 years assuming good health.
Jan. 5 at 2:28 p.m.
#10
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Quoting: Dmh1055
I don't think LA will get a 1st round pick and a good prospect for Vilardi. Maybe only 1 of those and most likely it'll be a 1st round pick from another team that is still a project. In June, it'll be 5 years since Vilardi was drafted in 2017. 1st round pick forwards usually have made the NHL by now. The 2017 draft is looking very light on the return from forwards in that draft class. The value of the players who have not made the league or have not done much since being drafted in 2017 is plummeting rapidly.

I would argue that Lemieux is a 3rd line wing in his current state. He's not a 4th liner at all. He threatens to have 2nd line potential. Looking at Lemieux's stats it seems that the 3 teams he has been on have not always trusted him to play in his natural role. Either he was taking too many penalties or still working on his defensive zone play as a a young player. It's probably a bit of both. He's been traded in season twice in his career, which has had to affect him in some way. For being drafted with lower expectations and even considering he was drafted 3 years earlier than Vilardi, Lemieux still made much more of an impact at the NHL level than Vilardi has at the same age. At age 26, I would project a reasonable expectation that Lemieux can score 15 to 20 goals a year for the next 4 years assuming good health.


Like I said, that's how I view Gabe personally. I'm very high on him, and I'm not a fan of how LA has treated him up to this point. He played 2C all last year in his rookie season, even if it was too much too soon. I still think he's got a lot to give.

And Lemieux has played on LA's 4th line all season long with Lizotte and Kaliyev. That line has gotten a bit more time recently because of protocols that knocked Danault and Turcotte out, but they're still the 4th line.

But hey, that's why I said I'd be okay with the trade. I think it's selling high on Lemieux, and you think it's buying low. That's what makes trades happen.
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Jan. 5 at 2:41 p.m.
#11
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Quoting: PuckLuck_77
Like I said, that's how I view Gabe personally. I'm very high on him, and I'm not a fan of how LA has treated him up to this point. He played 2C all last year in his rookie season, even if it was too much too soon. I still think he's got a lot to give.

And Lemieux has played on LA's 4th line all season long with Lizotte and Kaliyev. That line has gotten a bit more time recently because of protocols that knocked Danault and Turcotte out, but they're still the 4th line.

But hey, that's why I said I'd be okay with the trade. I think it's selling high on Lemieux, and you think it's buying low. That's what makes trades happen.


Seems like the Kings have an interchangeable 3rd and 4th line with the minutes being about the same between the two groups. That speaks to a strong top 6 and no clear trio that wins the 3rd line title. A lot of teams struggle with clear 3rd lines. Anymore it's the true cup contenders who are able to have great production in the bottom 6 either shutting down other team's top 6 units or scoring against the opponents bottom 6. The Kings had that in both of their cup wins as did all of the cup winners since then.

The Kings are fortunate to have the top 6 situated with so many more offensive prospects on the rise. It's nice seeing how they have re-formed the franchise on a march toward being a contender very soon.
 
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