Forums/Armchair-GM

20-21 Leafs

Created by: kous
Initial Creation Date: Jul. 28, 2022
Published: Jul. 28, 2022
Team: 2022-23 Toronto Maple Leafs
Free Agent Signings
RFAYEARSCAP HIT
Mangiapane, Andrew6$5,000,000
Sandin, Rasmus2$1,600,000
Trades
1.
TOR
  1. Mangiapane, Andrew [RFA Rights]
  2. Weegar, MacKenzie
CGY
  1. Muzzin, Jake
  2. Nylander, William
DRAFT YEARROUND 1ROUND 2ROUND 3ROUND 4ROUND 5ROUND 6ROUND 7
2023
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2024
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Logo of the OTT
2025
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ROSTER SIZESALARY CAPCAP HITOVERAGES TooltipBONUSESCAP SPACE
23$82,500,000$81,289,917$212,500$0$1,210,083
Left WingCenterRight Wing
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Bunting, Michael
$950,000
LW
UFA - 1
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Matthews, Auston
$11,640,250
C
UFA - 2
Mangiapane, Andrew
$5,000,000
LW, RW
UFA - 3
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Kerfoot, Alexander
$3,500,000
LW, C
NTC
UFA - 1
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Tavares, John
$11,000,000
C
NMC
UFA - 3
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Marner, Mitchell
$10,903,000
RW
UFA - 3
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Engvall, Pierre
$2,250,000
LW, RW, C
UFA - 1
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Kämpf, David
$1,500,000
C
UFA - 1
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Järnkrok, Calle
$2,100,000
C, LW, RW
NTC
UFA - 4
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Simmonds, Wayne
$900,000
RW, LW
NTC
UFA - 1
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Gaudette, Adam
$750,000
C, RW
RFA - 1
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Aubé-Kubel, Nicolas
$1,000,000
RW
UFA - 1
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Robertson, Nicholas
$796,667
LW
RFA - 2
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Anderson, Joey
$750,000
RW
RFA - 1
Left DefenseRight DefenseGoaltender
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Rielly, Morgan
$7,500,000
LD
NMC
UFA - 8
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Brodie, TJ
$5,000,000
LD/RD
NTC
UFA - 2
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Murray, Matt
$4,687,500
G
NTC
UFA - 2
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Sandin, Rasmus
$1,600,000
LD
RFA - 2
Logo of the CGY
Weegar, MacKenzie
$3,250,000
LD/RD
UFA - 1
Logo of the TOR
Samsonov, Ilya
$1,800,000
G
RFA - 1
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Giordano, Mark
$800,000
LD
UFA - 2
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Liljegren, Timothy
$1,400,000
RD
RFA - 2
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Holl, Justin
$2,000,000
RD
NTC
UFA - 1

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Jul. 28 at 2:53 p.m.
#1
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Since when did Muzzin return someone like Mangiapane? This is horrible for Calgary. Strict downgrade on defense for a lateral move on offense
Jul. 28 at 2:55 p.m.
#2
S M O K O
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Quoting: Ledge_And_Dairy
Since when did Muzzin return someone like Mangiapane? This is horrible for Calgary. Strict downgrade on defense for a lateral move on offense


Willy Nylander is tenfold more talented then Mangiapane.
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Jul. 28 at 2:59 p.m.
#3
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Quoting: VictoriaRoyalsHomer
Willy Nylander is tenfold more talented then Mangiapane.


You are trolling. Nylander only had 3 more points at 5v5 and is horrible defensively, whereas Mangiapane is elite defensively
Jul. 28 at 3:02 p.m.
#4
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Might as well throw in JT for lindholm too
Jul. 28 at 3:04 p.m.
#5
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Quoting: Ledge_And_Dairy
You are trolling. Nylander only had 3 more points at 5v5 and is horrible defensively, whereas Mangiapane is elite defensively


Not at all. Mangiapane is not game breaking like Nylander. Effort level Willy is definitely worse, but Nylander is offensively much better then Mangiapane. I would take Nylander's powerplay ability over Mangiapane's two way game. 80 points goes a long way.
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Jul. 28 at 3:12 p.m.
#6
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Quoting: VictoriaRoyalsHomer
Not at all. Mangiapane is not game breaking like Nylander. Effort level Willy is definitely worse, but Nylander is offensively much better then Mangiapane. I would take Nylander's powerplay ability over Mnangiapane's two way game. 80 points goes a long way.


He was the 5th best player on Toronto's 1st unit. If you think Nylander is game breaking you need to reevaluate your definition of game breaking.

Tell me how Nylander is the drastically more effective player
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Jul. 28 at 3:20 p.m.
#7
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Quoting: Ledge_And_Dairy
He was the 5th best player on Toronto's 1st unit. If you think Nylander is game breaking you need to reevaluate your definition of game breaking.

Tell me how Nylander is the drastically more effective player
XTGM3yC.png
8dQAp47.png


Your not taking into account is what his role would be in Calgary and the fact that if Mangiapane takes a 1 year deal via arbitration is a UFA and most likely gone next year
Jul. 28 at 3:30 p.m.
#8
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Quoting: Ledge_And_Dairy
He was the 5th best player on Toronto's 1st unit. If you think Nylander is game breaking you need to reevaluate your definition of game breaking.

Tell me how Nylander is the drastically more effective player
XTGM3yC.png
8dQAp47.png


So what you are saying is Mangiapane had one good season and only slightly better than Nylanders, that makes him better than Nylander? They are the same age, before you say he is a better player lets see if he can do it more than once. By no means am i saying this deal would be good for Calgary but to make those comparisons over one season is laughable.
Jul. 28 at 3:48 p.m.
#9
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Quoting: kous
Your not taking into account is what his role would be in Calgary and the fact that if Mangiapane takes a 1 year deal via arbitration is a UFA and most likely gone next year


Lol ok so him saying like 5 days ago that he is looking to sign a long term deal in Calgary means nothing? Personally I wouldn't trade Mangiapane straight up for Nylander
Jul. 28 at 3:49 p.m.
#10
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Quoting: python3504
So what you are saying is Mangiapane had one good season and only slightly better than Nylanders, that makes him better than Nylander? They are the same age, before you say he is a better player lets see if he can do it more than once. By no means am i saying this deal would be good for Calgary but to make those comparisons over one season is laughable.


Who said better? I argued he is a lateral move. The other person said he is significantly worse
Jul. 28 at 3:55 p.m.
#11
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Quoting: Ledge_And_Dairy
Lol ok so him saying like 5 days ago that he is looking to sign a long term deal in Calgary means nothing? Personally I wouldn't trade Mangiapane straight up for Nylander


First Ritch Winter is on record saying he prefers a short contract. That's also what what we heard about Gaudreau and Tkachuk as well. arbitration can get ugly if it goes that far.

I am not saying that he does not or is not willing to sign long-term in Calgary
Jul. 28 at 4:10 p.m.
#12
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Quoting: kous
First Ritch Winter is on record saying he prefers a short contract. That's also what what we heard about Gaudreau and Tkachuk as well. arbitration can get ugly if it goes that far.

I am not saying that he does not or is not willing to sign long-term in Calgary


His agent is on record advising him to take a short deal, and that was months ago.

Mangiapane said he's looking to sign a long term deal with the Flames after the Gaudreau thing and during the Tkachuk fiasco. Im am quite confident he will sign at least 5+ years


Jul. 28 at 4:38 p.m.
#13
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Quoting: Ledge_And_Dairy
His agent is on record advising him to take a short deal, and that was months ago.

Mangiapane said he's looking to sign a long term deal with the Flames after the Gaudreau thing and during the Tkachuk fiasco. Im am quite confident he will sign at least 5+ years




We will find out by next week. His hearing is on the 5th
Jul. 29 at 8:43 a.m.
#14
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Quoting: Ledge_And_Dairy
Who said better? I argued he is a lateral move. The other person said he is significantly worse


how is it lateral, maybe by this seasons metric but Nylander has a better track record since he has been doing it alot longer.
Jul. 29 at 8:48 a.m.
#15
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Quoting: python3504
how is it lateral, maybe by this seasons metric but Nylander has a better track record since he has been doing it alot longer.


Nylander has been in the league longer despite them being the same age. I would not be surprised if Mangiapane outproduces Nylander next season
Jul. 29 at 9:04 a.m.
#16
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Quoting: Ledge_And_Dairy
Nylander has been in the league longer despite them being the same age. I would not be surprised if Mangiapane outproduces Nylander next season


I cant see it but we will see.
Jul. 29 at 3:22 p.m.
#17
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Quoting: Ledge_And_Dairy
Nylander has been in the league longer despite them being the same age. I would not be surprised if Mangiapane outproduces Nylander next season


Nylander playing behind Matthews and Marner vs Mangiapane on the first line. Its possible I guess but if they both had equal roles I don't think its close.
Jul. 29 at 3:46 p.m.
#18
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Quoting: kous
Nylander playing behind Matthews and Marner vs Mangiapane on the first line. Its possible I guess but if they both had equal roles I don't think its close.


Depends, they played similar roles this year and had nearly identical 5v5 production, difference being Nylander had far more PP time on the 1st unit (166% of Mangiapane's PP tine to be exact)
Jul. 29 at 4:03 p.m.
#19
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Quoting: Ledge_And_Dairy
Depends, they played similar roles this year and had nearly identical 5v5 production, difference being Nylander had far more PP time on the 1st unit (166% of Mangiapane's PP tine to be exact)


and Nylander had 3 x the PP points. No matter how you look at it one for one Nylander is the better player
Jul. 29 at 4:47 p.m.
#20
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Quoting: kous
and Nylander had 3 x the PP points. No matter how you look at it one for one Nylander is the better player


And I completely disagree, he played with way better players on the powerplay than Mange. Even if he is better at producing points he is strictly inferior defensively. The graph and the WAR comparison I posted above prove that
Jul. 29 at 5:03 p.m.
#21
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Quoting: Ledge_And_Dairy
And I completely disagree, he played with way better players on the powerplay than Mange. Even if he is better at producing points he is strictly inferior defensively. The graph and the WAR comparison I posted above prove that


WAR is a great stat in a sport like baseball where value is very easily defined due to the broken flow, single play at a time spent with easily defined roles based on position no matter the circumstances.

For hockey it's a pretty crap stat for trying to similarly boil player value down to a single number. It fails miserably due to the more complex and varied roles the same positions contribute over the span of a game. It's better than nothing, but not a great catch-all because context matters.
Jul. 29 at 5:07 p.m.
#22
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Quoting: kous
WAR is a great stat in a sport like baseball where value is very easily defined due to the broken flow, single play at a time spent with easily defined roles based on position no matter the circumstances.

For hockey it's a pretty crap stat for trying to similarly boil player value down to a single number. It fails miserably due to the more complex and varied roles the same positions contribute over the span of a game. It's better than nothing, but not a great catch-all because context matters.


Thats why I didn't provide only WAR. I provided their RAPM charts too. You can compare them head to head here too if you want
 
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