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Karlsson via Yotes Can you double retain here

Created by: mavidschmavid
Published: Nov. 7, 2022 at 11:23 a.m.
Salary Cap: $82,500,000
Season Days: 157/185 (85%)
Central Registry Determination: This trade has been rejected because the upper limit has been exceeded by one of the trade parties

Logo of the Arizona CoyotesArizona Coyotes

OutStatusRetained SalaryEffective Cap HitRosterSPCReserve ListDraft Rd 1Rd 2-3Rd 4-7GPGAPGAASv%
Kassian, ZackArizona CoyotesNHL-$2,715,676011---8101--
InStatusRetained SalaryEffective Cap HitRosterSPCReserve ListDraft Rd 1Rd 2-3Rd 4-7GPGAPGAASv%
Robertson, NicholasWaivers ExemptToronto Maple LeafsNHL-$676,090011---7235--
2023 2nd round pick (Logo of the San Jose SharksSJS)---010------
2024 1st round pick (Logo of the Toronto Maple LeafsTOR)---100------
ChangeCap SpaceRosterSPCReserve ListDraft Rd 1Rd 2-3Rd 4-7GPGAPGAASv%
Initial$16,287,73623437331513
Change$2,039,586000110
Final$18,327,322 (↑)2343734 (↑)16 (↑)13134

Logo of the San Jose SharksSan Jose Sharks

OutStatusRetained SalaryEffective Cap HitRosterSPCReserve ListDraft Rd 1Rd 2-3Rd 4-7GPGAPGAASv%
Karlsson, ErikSan Jose SharksNHL15%$8,295,540011---1410919--
Reimer, JamesSan Jose SharksNHL-$1,909,459011-------0.030.001
2023 2nd round pick (Logo of the San Jose SharksSJS)---010------
InStatusRetained SalaryEffective Cap HitRosterSPCReserve ListDraft Rd 1Rd 2-3Rd 4-7GPGAPGAASv%
Muzzin, JakeToronto Maple LeafsLTIR-$4,773,649011---4011--
Kassian, ZackArizona CoyotesNHL-$2,715,676011---8101--
Holl, JustinToronto Maple LeafsNHL-$1,697,297011---13112--
2023 1st round pick (Logo of the Toronto Maple LeafsTOR)---100------
ChangeCap SpaceRosterSPCReserve ListDraft Rd 1Rd 2-3Rd 4-7GPGAPGAASv%
Initial$229,2202349723615
Change$1,018,3770111-10
Final$1,247,597 (↑)2350 (↑)73 (↑)4 (↑)5 (↓)15-8-7-15

Logo of the Toronto Maple LeafsToronto Maple Leafs

OutStatusRetained SalaryEffective Cap HitRosterSPCReserve ListDraft Rd 1Rd 2-3Rd 4-7GPGAPGAASv%
Muzzin, JakeToronto Maple LeafsLTIR-$5,625,000011---4011--
Holl, JustinToronto Maple LeafsNHL-$2,000,000011---13112--
Robertson, NicholasWaivers ExemptToronto Maple LeafsNHL-$796,667011---7235--
2023 1st round pick (Logo of the Toronto Maple LeafsTOR)---100------
2024 1st round pick (Logo of the Toronto Maple LeafsTOR)---100------
InStatusRetained SalaryEffective Cap HitRosterSPCReserve ListDraft Rd 1Rd 2-3Rd 4-7GPGAPGAASv%
Karlsson, ErikSan Jose SharksNHL15%$9,775,000011---1410919--
Reimer, JamesSan Jose SharksNHL-$2,250,000011-------0.030.001
ChangeCap SpaceRosterSPCReserve ListDraft Rd 1Rd 2-3Rd 4-7GPGAPGAASv%
Initial$4,308,3332350693411
Change-$9,228,3330-1-1-200
Final-$4,920,000 (↓)2349 (↓)68 (↓)1 (↓)4117411
Nov. 7, 2022 at 11:24 a.m.
#1
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Wasn't sure how to Double retain Karlssons contract via Yotes, to Toronto to reduce the cap hit to Tor.
Nov. 7, 2022 at 1:07 p.m.
#2
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Edited Nov. 7, 2022 at 1:15 p.m.
SJ and AZ both decline.

A washed up 2nd rate low skill goon like Kassian doesn't fetch anything near that. Retention on Karlsson's monster contract for the 5 years left on it won't be cheap either. Muzzin is a cap dump, Holl and Robertson don't add much value and 2 late 1sts aren't nearly enough to make up for all that.
Nov. 7, 2022 at 3:14 p.m.
#3
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It will cost you a 1st to dump Muzzin's contract, it is no sure thing he is washed and could potentially play next season (he also has a NTC).

It will cost you a 1st for every year that you need someone to take on $5M in cap, that's 4.5 years.

Reimer would also cost around 1st or 2nd (especially if he peforms well before the deadline)

So that's basically seven high level picks before we even talk about Karlsson's value.

For retaining half, on Karlsson's contract fair would be three to four 1st rounders, one or two 2nd rounder, Robertson, Sandin, and Liljegren

It would be way too much.
Nov. 7, 2022 at 3:25 p.m.
#4
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Quoting: mavidschmavid
Wasn't sure how to Double retain Karlssons contract via Yotes, to Toronto to reduce the cap hit to Tor.


Leafs aren't giving up 2 firsts and Robertson for that. He is not the type of dman we need anyway.
Nov. 7, 2022 at 4:46 p.m.
#5
Fire J.D. too
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Quoting: tryger
It will cost you a 1st to dump Muzzin's contract, it is no sure thing he is washed and could potentially play next season (he also has a NTC).

It will cost you a 1st for every year that you need someone to take on $5M in cap, that's 4.5 years.

Reimer would also cost around 1st or 2nd (especially if he peforms well before the deadline)

So that's basically seven high level picks before we even talk about Karlsson's value.

For retaining half, on Karlsson's contract fair would be three to four 1st rounders, one or two 2nd rounder, Robertson, Sandin, and Liljegren

It would be way too much.


Might be getting a little carried away there but your last point is true.
Nov. 7, 2022 at 5:19 p.m.
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Quoting: PantsOffnJacket
Might be getting a little carried away there but your last point is true.


I mean without a contract in place Karlsson went for 1st (Tim Stuetzle), 2nd (Zach Ostapchuk), Josh Norris (1st round pick), Chris Tienery (40 point scorer at the time), Dylan Demelo (20 point scorer), Rudolfs Balcers.

Karlsson is acutally looking better than when he was traded, the trading team wants 1/2 retention, and are asked to take on Jake Muzzin, I think you would have to give up the moon, especially for making a team retain ~$5M for 5 years.

3 1sts, 2nd, 3 prospects is a would have to be split up between SJ and Arizona and even then it wouldn't feel like either came out without a significant loss.
Nov. 7, 2022 at 6:01 p.m.
#7
Fire J.D. too
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Quoting: tryger
I mean without a contract in place Karlsson went for 1st (Tim Stuetzle), 2nd (Zach Ostapchuk), Josh Norris (1st round pick), Chris Tienery (40 point scorer at the time), Dylan Demelo (20 point scorer), Rudolfs Balcers.

Karlsson is acutally looking better than when he was traded, the trading team wants 1/2 retention, and are asked to take on Jake Muzzin, I think you would have to give up the moon, especially for making a team retain ~$5M for 5 years.

3 1sts, 2nd, 3 prospects is a would have to be split up between SJ and Arizona and even then it wouldn't feel like either came out without a significant loss.


Your not taking into consideration the negative value in acquiring a 33yr old dman who has 5 more years on contract and a VERY extensive injury history. Yes he's playing very well so far this year but we're 15games in, whose to say he can even make it a whole season at this point. The fact he's played so well THIS year is the main reason any acquiring team would entertain a trade.
I would think looking at what the sharks got for Burns is a good guideline for EK, but add value due to slight age difference.
(For Burns -Steven Lorentz, goalie prospect Eetu Makiniemi, and a third-round pick in the 2023, they retained 34%)

In the end Karlsson isn't the player the leafs need to target anyways
Nov. 7, 2022 at 6:12 p.m.
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Quoting: PantsOffnJacket
Your not taking into consideration the negative value in acquiring a 33yr old dman who has 5 more years on contract and a VERY extensive injury history. Yes he's playing very well so far this year but we're 15games in, whose to say he can even make it a whole season at this point. The fact he's played so well THIS year is the main reason any acquiring team would entertain a trade.
I would think looking at what the sharks got for Burns is a good guideline for EK, but add value due to slight age difference.
(For Burns -Steven Lorentz, goalie prospect Eetu Makiniemi, and a third-round pick in the 2023, they retained 34%)

In the end Karlsson isn't the player the leafs need to target anyways


We are in agreement, but my arguments for the high price is about that risk in particular.

His age is certainly a factor, but for a win-now team selling the house for a player who has returned to Norris caliber at 50% retention and offloading a negative contract a windfall split between two teams isn't out of grasp.

In regards to risk, remember the risk is shared by both teams. If that player is bought out by the Leafs within those 5 years, they can potentially extend a 5-year commitment even longer for the Coyotes and additionally burn 1/3 of a team's buyouts for a number of years. That's why no team would take 5 years 50% retained, ever unless they were given a top-line or top-pair player ++++.
 
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