I’m not that guy who thinks you have to play hockey to understand the game, but ur thinking is so flawed it’s not even funny. Hockey is not played in a vacuum. Each line is going to impact the other in one way or another. If you don’t understand that then I really don’t know what to tell you. Your argument is beyond asinine imo.

Also you ignored the retention aspect which makes this trade more difficult for the isles financially.

Each line impacts the other. If one line is getting caved in and out chances consistently that means someone is going to have to bail them out. It means their ice time has to be limited. There r just so many different factors involved here and you are acting like they don’t matter.

The sheer arrogance it requires to insist that different lines don’t impact each other at all must be astonishing. Ur way of analyzing the game is inherently flawed imo.

The fact you think you can tell someone “that’s not how hockey works,” when you are insisting that a players team doesn’t impact their results in ANYWAY, SHAPE, or FORM is just incredible to me. Where did all these guys who think Hockey isn’t a team sport come from? The analytics aren’t telling you this bro. They just aren’t.

Sure each line affects one another, but the impact is significantly smaller than the impact of your actual linemates. You're ignoring the fact that mangiapane is basically playing like the same 5v5 player that he was last year, with the only difference being his significantly lower shooting percentage. Having a lower shooting percentage has nothing to do with starting your shift in the offensive zone vs. the defensive zone lmao. Saying Mangiapane has regressed significantly as a player because of this 30 game stretch and worse players on his team would be like saying Barzal significantly regressed last year when he had 59 points and played with worse teammates. Neither are true. Trading Bailey and a 2nd for Mangiapane, a legitimate goal-scorer and a very strong defensive player, to stick him on a line w/ Barzal would be an incredible move

Yeah and I think your insistence to ignore the stats and instead spew random conjecture/buzz words like "lines getting caved in", "hockey is a team sport", and "hockey is not played in a vacuum" is inherently flawed. An argument like this is what makes analytics so important. You can tell if mangiapane is a bad player or if he is just in a slump based on his underlying metrics, and they resoundingly argue that he is merely in a slump. He is the perfect player for the islanders rn. Adding one of the best defensive forwards in hockey to a team that has been giving up an ungodly amount of scoring opportunities, not to mention while also being a score threat, seems like a 0 hesitation move to me.

Once again you have entirely missed or just flat out ignored my point. The fact that you don’t understand how big of an impact Gaudreau and Tkachuk has on that entire roster is astonishing. Of course that is going to impact ur performance. It’s going to impact your teams strategy, your opponents strategy, your style of play, it impacts literally everything.

Oml dude. You have once again ignored my entire point which is that you have completely misinterpreted the numbers ur looking at here. I’m not just dropping buzz wards, I’m just telling you how the game works on the most basic of levels.

His defensive impact is great, he’s a good forechecker and backchecker, but can he create offense on his own? He can do it when he plays second line minutes on a team with the best first line in hockey. Has he done it this year? No.

There’s an argument to be made that with a guy like Barzal his numbers would improve, and I’m not opposed to adding him. I’m opposed to the retention factor, and I’m also not sure he’s the best option available. Meier or Kuzmenko seem like better bets if ur looking for consistent scoring imo. And there r buy low options who play a similar game to Mangiapane that don’t cost 5.8 million a year.

And once again, your lack of evidence or any sort of substantial proof to back up saying random stuff like "your teams strategy, your opponents strategy, your style of play, it impacts literally everything" is astonishing. There is no shred of evidence that points to the departure of gaudreau and tkahcuk affecting mangiapane. His analytics are the same this year that they were last year and the year before that. He is still an incredible forechecker, backchecker, penalty killer, and defensive player at 5v5. The only difference on his stat sheet this year is his shooting percentage. Shooting percentage isn't affected AT ALL by Gaudreau or Tkachuk. The stat simply represents what percentage of your shots actually go in.

You can win games with guys like Hudson Fasching in ur line up. It’s not that hard to find cheaper, better options on the wing. Every dollar counts when you’re trying to win a cup. You can’t just buy into a player cause he shot 18% on a stacked team. You need to buy wins, not just the guys you like.

Meier is gonna cost a fortune + an 8x8 contract in the offseason. Kuzmenko will cost more than mangipane and also get signed to a more expensive contract this offseason. I'd love any of em, in fact I'd want Meier the most. Mangiapane would still be a great addition though.

Oml dude. What evidence do I need to show you to prove that your team impacts ur production? It’s just so unbelievably obvious it’s insane. Look at analytics darlings like Reilly and Puljujvari. Now I don’t dislike either guy, I think there’s actually more to get out of Puljujvari, but are they worth their contract? No they haven’t played like it.

Mangiapane has not produced like a top six caliber wing. You could say the same for Beau, but in Beauvillier case I think the reason he isn’t producing is way more evident than Mangiapane.

Look. I’m willing to buy into analytics don’t misunderstand me. But I’m not just throwing out buzz words. I’m saying there r guys in this league who r game changers, and it’s a lot easier to be successful when you have those guys on ur team. You can look at the numbers of pretty much any team after losing a star player and failing to replace him. They normally don’t get better. It’s not that complicated.

Everyone knows why Huberdeau’s production is down rn. Florida had two elite lines you had to game plan for, and now he’s expected to be Calgary’s engine. Mangiapane has his shooting percentage slashed in half right after the best line of hockey is broken up. How is that a coincidence? The evidence is staring right back at us all.

I’d rather add a true game changer and see what I have in Bridgeport for now. That was my original argument and I’m willing to stand by it. I would not be opposed to Mangiapane without retention on the salary going back. I just don’t know what’s fair value for him given how loaded this Draft class is.

This should be easy for even you to understand @islesforthecup

you have provided no evidence, just your uneducated opinion. Players not on your line have literally 0 impact on your production.

Mangiapane just came off of seasons producing at a 26 goal pace and then followed it up with a 35 goal season. He is in the 99th percentile for goal scoring over the past 3 seasons, do I have to explain what that means ??

Huberdeau's production is down because it takes a while to adapt to Sutters system. I guess you forgot gaudreau and tkachuk both struggled immediately after Sutter was hired. It took them close to a year to get acclimated.

Mangiapane's line got tougher matchups than Gaudreau+ Tkachuk. Mangiapane is known for being able to generate offense at an elite level , even this season.

so I looked at their zone starts, clearly you didn't. You know who had the majority of offensive zone starts? Gaudreau's line, they led by far with 21.5 % starts in the offensive zone.

85% of Mangiapane's zone starts last season were outside of the offensive zone.

86.5% of Mangiapane's zone starts this season are outside of the offensive zone. Nearly identical to last season.

Ur right. I only looked at their defense for some ****ing reason that is beyond me.

Lmaoooo he just proved my point you predicted mangiapane would shoot close to his career average yet he’s shooting way under. If you really meant what @andrewgoalie33 said you should’ve said that bc that’s a whole separate conversation.

Great that’s not what he said. Kudos to you for figuring that out of what he said.

Lol nah I predicted that Mangiapane will see regression to the mean sooner than later because he has been one of the leagues best finishers. Once again you are wrong, it’s impressive at this point!

No you didn’t you said simultaneously that shooting% is the easiest thing to predict and that mangiapane isn’t shooting what was expected so which is it?