If you think Stone is a problem you haven't seen Mackey play this year. I would rather play 5dmen then Mackey tbh

Benching Ruzicka would ve a big mistake

I like Stone but am pretty sick of that blast of his hitting nothing but glass.

I'd scratch Looch over Rosy but it's not like eithers done much in a while, Rosy didn't really go cold until he got yanked from the top line though (he did go a couple games up there without doing much). Wouldn't mind seeing that again.

I'm worried Huby won't work with Lindholm, like we saw beginning of the season but it'd be nice if they could figure it out.

Maybe Dube with Mang and Backlund? Dube and Mang looked pretty good together at times but it didn't really work around Kadri. Maybe give Kadri Coleman.

Also haven't seen Toffoli with Kadri yet.

Stone is a small problem in a mass of problems. A problem nonetheless. Two things can be true at the same time, Stone should be shot out of a cannon and to the moon right now and the Flames don't have a much better option on the NHL roster right now.

Getting Pelletier in the line up at the expense of one of the most inconsistent players on the roster and a guy who hasn't touched the score sheet in 11 games with PP time doesn't really feel like a "big mistake". The 4th line has been really good defensively, Lewis seems to be able drive a line that plays 8 - 12 minutes a night to a point that they're giving up less chances than they're getting. I would prefer it's Lucic scratched but it won't happen.

It's the most ineffective hard shot in the league right now, it doesn't get through, when it does it's not creating rebounds or its going off the glass and out the other side of the zone.

I would also scratch Lucic before anyone but I think we all know to temper expectations with that. Ruzicka hasn't touched the score sheet in 11 games with powerplay time getting him out for a couple games while inserting Pelletier I don't think is a bad thing, if Pelletier steals a job then Duehr comes out to accommodate Ruzicka getting back in.

I think that Huberdeau and Lindholm should have been strapped together earlier, this team will go as far as their best players want to take them, Toffoli has been excellent this year and I think finding a winger that works for a Lindholm/Toffoli pairing is best case scenario here, Mangiapane should get a shot if Huberdeau doesn't work again but I think Huberdeau and Lindholm need to figure it out.

It would be pretty tough to convince me to permanently split up MAngiapane - Backlund- Coleman but I can't disagree that a shake up is due.

Pelletier should be given a shot, no arguments here with that.

i think we should look at Minnesota as a good example of a similar team that is having more success than us. You don't see them putting Ryan Reaves on the 2nd line. The idea that Lucic play on the 2nd line was that Kadri and Huberdeau get a guy that is good at driving to the net, Ruzicka has proven that he is quite good at that when he was elevated in the lineup. Lucic realistically should be the player scratched, he's been quite ineffective all around

Stone’s a Stud. Good things happen when he’s on the ice. Sure his bomb of a shot hasn’t been effective lately but it will again if he can get more time to get it off. Those 2 penalty calls against him last night were weak calls imo. I mean what do you expect, at least he can score and is a + player at league minimum. If we want a better defensive RD bring Meloche up.

Weegar had a horrible 1st period. If you want to dump on a D-Man it should be him. I like him but for the $3.25mil he’s paid now and the $6.25mil he’s set to earn going forward, we should be more disappointed in his contributions or lack thereof, especially since he gets to play with Tanev

I’d sit Lucic and try these lines:

Dube-Lindholm-Toffoli
Mangiapane-Kadri-Coleman
Huberdeau-Backlund-Ruzicka
Pelletier-Lewis-Duehr

He's only ahead of Tanev in created xG, xRebounds created, actual rebounds created, he has 0 xHigh Danger Goal, and 0.9 xMedium Danger, he actually has 0 high danger unblocked shots and only 1 medium danger, only has more shots on goal than Tanev but has the highest shot attempt/60. His shots don't get through, miss the net or are taken from such a low quality spot that they're irrelevant. If that's your stud then there is no conversation to have here. Meloche's foot speed, movement and being able to keep up in the minors has always been his knock, bringing up an equivalent Stone isn't the answer. They both stink.

Tanev-Weegar have top 5 numbers in the league for a defensive pairing for goals against/60 and top 2 numbers for goals against.

Breaking up the top line in hockey for the past 2 weeks ain't it.

Only Zadorov (9.1%) has a better Shot % than Stone (6.5%). Stone has more than twice the chance of scoring than Hanifin (2.9%) or Tanev (2.6%) and 5x times more than Weegar (1.3%). Stone's shots also do a lot of damage, taking opponents and their sticks out of the play, creating rebounds and rattling the goalie. Let Hanifin, Weegar & Tanev lob wrist shots in for deflections, but Big-Z, Andersson and Stone should have the Green Light to Shoot to Score. Stone isn't the problem and hasn't been a liability, so again, not sure what more you can or should expect from him and his league minimum contract and 13mins/gm, if anything he's way out/over playing his contract.

Weegar & Tanev are -4 together. I'd try Weegar with Andersson and Hanifin with Tanev if it were me, otherwise swap Weegar and Zadorov or reduce Tanev's minutes by partnering him with Stone, since Stone is weaker defensively and Tanev seems to get injured often, so reducing his minutes might not be a bad idea.

Whether it’s Mang-Backs-Coleman or Mang-Backs-Dube or Huberdeau-Backs-Ruzicka, I think all 3 lines would produce the same results, shots for and chances for. Kadri needs a guy like Coleman or Lewis on his Wing, Lucic is too much of a liability and Huberdeau played well with Backlund.

Mang-Kadri-Coleman have looked amazing together, including last night, so maybe it's Mang & Coleman who need to stick together and not necessarily with Backs; Kadri can certainly net the puck better than Backlund as well. I think Mang & Dube are just as good together as well, but they played different when Kadri was their centre. Would be interesting to see what they look like with Lindholm, Backlund or Ruzicka as their Centre.

Your constant argument of him doing damage is so silly, since I heard you say that I've seen it once and it was a Flames stick that he broke.
High Danger Unblocked Shots
Andersson - 3
Zadorov - 3
Hanifin - 2
Weegar - 1
Tanev/Stone - 0
Medium Danger Unblocked
Andersson - 9
Hanifin - 6
Zadorov - 5
Weegar - 4
Stone/Tanev - 1

Your idea of creating is weird and exactly the problem with the Flames, perimeter shots don't lead to chances and goals. Stone doesn't contribute at either end and is the most easily upgraded position on the league. He needs to be replaced.

You're comparing the +/- of a pairing in Weegar and Tanev on a low event team the plays against the McDavid's, MacKinnon's, Crosby's. That's just wrong. +/- is one of the worst stats in hockey, simialr to a goalies win/loss record.

Two of the Flames best line combination in terms of getting more quality chances than their giving up and playing ridiculously well in their own end is Mangiapane, Backlund, Coleman (tops in the league) and the other was Ruzicka - Backlund - Coleman. Nothing suggests that Mangiapane is the driver of that line being the top defensive line in the league. Kadri and anyone has been bleeding chances all year so that line needs Ozone starts and better possession down low, Pelletier could use sheltered Ozone starts and has a strong 200 ft game, Dube skates well and forechecks better than most, Kadri is great at entering the zone and with Dube and Pelletier pushing D back the reason to get better possession and chances. Ruzicka can't drive a line, only reason he's still in the line up is because there isn't a better 4C in the pipeline right now, playing him with Dube who needs help on a line and Mangiapane who has struggled isn't going to improve any of those player.s

Generally Stone’s shots either get blocked or go in, so yeah that seems accurate. Of the unblocked, they’re either deflected, barely miss the net or are saved in which case an offensive zone FaceOff occurs. Big Right Shot NHL Defensemen with 100mph+ Slap Shot are definitely not easy to find or replace. BTW, he’s supposed to be the 7th D-Man. You should really be hating on Kylington or Weegar far more than Stone, they haven’t lived up to their new contracts yet at all

Perimeter shots work fine when there’s front net presence which is what I would argue is the bigger Flame problem. They don’t have Stars like MacKinnon, Crosby or McDavid, so they need to crash & bang, put the puck on the net and screen the goalie or clean up the garbage

Statistics and Analytics are great but they don’t tell the whole story, hence why +/- is a flawed stat, so sometimes you gotta try something new or go with what works. It’s results = goals & winning that I’m looking for, not just nicer stats. If it isn’t working, switch & shake things up until it does.

I should really be hating on Kylington or Weegar? Your choice is to hate on the guy that is clearly going through hell and back with a personal situation or Weegar who is one half of a top 10 pairing in the league by a ton of metrics?? What are you talking about?! I don't know what your infatuation with bad hockey players is but you seem to just want to be right instead of looking at something analytically or even subjectively before speaking. I've given you the numbers on Stone a thousand times, you choose to ignore them, he doesn't create chances, he doesn't create rebounds, he doesn't create goals, he plays bad defence, he can't keep up. Did you know he has created 6 rebounds all year? He has 1 shot attempt all season that wasn't considered low danger, that's the guy you're hitching your wagon to to get more offensive punch!?

The Flames are a top two team in Shot Attempt % and Unblocked Shot Attempt %, yet a bottom half team in Expected Goals For, and bottom 6 in Shooting%, they're 15th in high danger shots for, 21st in medium danger and 2nd in low danger, the low danger shots aren't even leading to high danger shots, clearly perimeter shots are not working, it's why they have a horrid record when they get 40+ shots, a prime example of analytics leading to results.

It's analytics and stats that lead to goals that lead to winning, there is a lot there and I really just don't think that you understand enough to throw out, "I feel this should happen because eye test and feelings" then take the stance of ignoring people who just know more than you, specifically LedgeandDairy, I think he still writes for a hockey outlet and makes money doing it but you choose to ignore a guy that spends his days analyzing tangible stats.

I've given my respect to @Ledge_And_Dairy many times and yourself as well for knowing Hockey and Analytics, especially deep analytics more than I and many people on this site, but at the same time, I haven't seen either of you post many particularly great ideas, recommendations or solutions either. I do look at the stats and analytics and simply enjoy the banter and conversation, so long as it doesn't become condescending or rude, but it happens and I'm by far not perfect or innocent myself. We don't have to agree on everything and I have learned quite a lot and enjoy others thoughts & perspectives, including yourselves. The bottom line is I'm a Flames Fan who wants to see them dominate and being impatient and a business man myself, if something isn't working you change it until it does.

My biggest gripes this season has been over Sutter's line combinations and his insistence on playing Lucic so much and not giving some of our prospects true opportunities in the Top-9 with our skilled guys.

Weegar & Tanev went from -4 together to -6 together last game. Yes I understand they're are defending against the other Team's Top Guys, but in the end we need them to be + together. I think Zadorov-Weegar is better, but if it were up to me, I'd try Weegar-Andersson and Hanifin-Tanev, because even the Hanifin-Andersson pairing hasn't been that good this year and that's because our forward group isn't playing as well this season and it's clear Gaudreau & Tkachuk were elite players and the players we brought in to replace them aren't playing elite right now, hence why we're getting a lot of perimeter "low danger" opportunities. We just don't have the skill to complete the skill rush, pass & tic tac toe plays star players are known for or to skate through the opponents to net many top shelf sniped like we were able to do last season. Besides, that's not really Sutter's Game, which is more of a heavy checking, puck control, defense first, bang & crash style game, yet we're clearly not getting enough people in front of the net prior to taking those perimeter shots and/or there's not enough secondary shots/opportunities from guys who should be hovering in and around that area looking for "high danger" scoring chances.

Mang-Backs-Coleman play a good control game and Backlund specifically is getting a ton of shots, but Mang isn't and overall, he's been under performing and a - player for us this year. He's doing better, but he's certainly not doing enough.

As for Stone, I don't think he's a Star and I know and understand his weaknesses as you have pointed out, but good things happen when he's on the ice and overall I think he's been playing great hockey for us the past 2 seasons, especially given he's supposed to be our 7th replacement D-Man. I mean give the guy the credit he's due. None of us know what Kylington's true issues are, so without knowing and seeing how Tanev doesn't have and very likely won't get his partner back this season, that's hurting the team, so whether good or bad, his situation is negatively affecting the team. As for Weegar, I think he's a very good d-man, but he does make too many mistakes and coughs up the puck too much in his own zone or has difficulty clearing/getting it out, so Zadorov deserves that 2LD spot. I think the LD experiment with Weegar should be over and he should be moved to RD now. This is all my takes based on the stats & analytics I've seen and from watching them play regularly.

So no, with just 1 Goal each and contributing 0.26 and 0.21PPG and being -6 together, Weegar and Tanev are not an elite or Top-10 pairing imo. They're good (any Tanev pairing usually is) but they (specifically Weegar) need to be much much better.

Michael Stone isn't the Flames problem, it's Sutter and his line combinations, his refusal to go with the Hot Goalie and refusal to look internally for solutions, so we know what we have and/or can make a decision to acquire a player or two who will help us a) score more b) win more games and by more than just 1 goal and c) become a more dominant team and true contender, because we aren't close to being one at the moment. Sutter could instill a lot more confidence in his players too. He talks up Tkachuk, Gaudreau and former Stanley Cup Champions and not his own players enough.

Anyways, I enjoy the conversation and appreciate your perspective & knowledge, but I'm a Fan and will continue to think of and discuss things & ways I think will help them get to the next level or generate their best and hope you will do so as well.