Who are some defensemen you can think of that used to be top 4 defensemen but aren't playing at that level any more? So current NHL defensemen who used to be top 4 defensemen but aren't any more. For me: Paul Martin, Andrew MacDonald, Tyler Myers, Jonathan Ericsson, Dennis Wideman, Francois Beauchemin, Alexei Emelin, Jason Garrison, Tobias Enstrom, Andy Greene. What about you guys?

Ben Lovejoy.

1) Dan Girardi
2) Kevin Klein
3) Jeff Finger
4) Dan Girardi

Seriously, i think you're just making a joke about me, am i correct?

I wouldn't say he was ever a top 4.

Lmaoooooo

i think he's just making some joke.

Yep just a joke, just for fun, life is short, so why not?

But actually, Girardi once was a solid top 4 dman. I do stand by the fact that he isn't anymore. Same could apply with Klein here

I thought everyone has always thought Girardi was terrible? When would you say he was a top 4 d-man, because it's been at least 5 years of everyone saying Girardi is some horrible hockey player.

I mean, he was okay 5 years ago, but definitely right now he's pretty trash

5 years ago everyone was saying how bad he is. He's very underrated. Claude Giroux actually said that Girardi is the most underrated player in the league, probably because he plays a lot against Girardi, who is a top 4 defenseman that everyone else thinks is horrible.

5 years ago. Not now. As of now, Girardi is seriously terrible. Gives the puck up too much and has terrible possession numbers

i think you might be getting mixed up with Brendan Smith ...

I would pick Smith over Girardi any day of any week. One of NYRs best Dmen throughout the playoffs IMO

So you'd rather a guy who always loses the puck and gives it away over a shot-blocking, puck moving defenseman?

Girardi isn't a pick moving defenceman at all. Terrible Corsi numbers.

STATS DON'T TELL YOU ANYTHING ABOUT DEFENSEMEN!!!!!!!

What's that? A defenseman has shitty stats? Who cares, he's not supposed to get points! All he's supposed to do is block shots! W-what do you mean defenseman are expected to put up points? I'll have you know that i'm the OFFICIAL Armchair GM of the Philadelphia Flyers and as long as a defenseman can block a shot he's worth 8 million dollars! **** stats!

Honestly, it depends on how bad your D core is. Lovejoy was definetly at one point a decent Top 6'er, but now he's just an AHL sort of player.

Edit: His best NHL season from what I can see was an 18-point season in 2013-14. So maybe he wasn't ever a Top 4, haha. But definetly a Top 6 in my opinion.

yeah, i think he's top 6.

Guys, i mean stats are a part of how good a defenseman is, but hmmm ... i guess Nick Leddy is better than Mark Giordano, right? Because he got more points.

Stats aren't all for D-men though. Also, I may be biased, but I think Leddy is actually pretty good. Not anywhere near better than Giordano... but Leddy is good.

Stats are more important for forwards and goalies than D-men. But still, stats cannot be ignored, a D-man that can score is valuable. It's not all about the stats, but stats are still important.

yeah, i know he's no giordano, i was just, you know ... seeing if you thought so?