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Running down a dream

Created by: jonh514
Team: 2023-24 Montreal Canadiens
Initial Creation Date: May 11, 2023
Published: May 11, 2023
Salary Cap Mode: Basic
Description
I am not serious, but I thought this was a clever idea and wanted to explore it. Also, if you don't already know, I love Hertl
Free Agent Signings
RFAYEARSCAP HIT
3$7,000,000
3$2,000,000
UFAYEARSCAP HIT
1$800,000
Trades
MTL
  1. Hertl, Tomas
  2. Karlsson, Erik
Additional Details:
It's a huge step back for SJ, but in 4 years they will have one of the best young teams in the league and for a whole lot of years
SJS
  1. Armia, Joel
  2. Edmundson, Joel
  3. Gallagher, Brendan
  4. Kidney, Riley
  5. 2023 1st round pick (FLA)
  6. 2023 1st round pick (MTL)
Additional Details:
The traded roster players are all about cap relief
5 OA
29-32 OA
Buyouts
DraftRound 1Round 2Round 3Round 4Round 5Round 6Round 7
2023
Logo of the MTL
Logo of the MTL
Logo of the MTL
Logo of the PIT
Logo of the VGK
Logo of the MTL
Logo of the CGY
Logo of the MTL
Logo of the MTL
2024
Logo of the MTL
Logo of the COL
Logo of the MTL
Logo of the MTL
Logo of the MTL
Logo of the SJS
Logo of the MTL
Logo of the MTL
Logo of the EDM
2025
Logo of the MTL
Logo of the CGY
Logo of the MTL
Logo of the MTL
Logo of the MTL
Logo of the MTL
Logo of the MTL
Logo of the MTL
ROSTER SIZESALARY CAPCAP HITOVERAGES TooltipBONUSESCAP SPACE
23$83,500,000$74,706,666$1,170,000$4,252,500$8,793,334
Left WingCentreRight Wing
Logo of the Montreal Canadiens
$7,000,000$7,000,000
LW, RW
UFA - 8
Logo of the Montreal Canadiens
$7,875,000$7,875,000
C
UFA - 7
Logo of the Montreal Canadiens
$3,362,500$3,362,500
C, RW
RFA - 3
Logo of the Montreal Canadiens
$950,000$950,000 (Performance Bonus$3,500,000$4M)
RW, LW
RFA - 2
Logo of the San Jose Sharks
$6,750,000$6,750,000
C
NMC
UFA - 7
Logo of the Montreal Canadiens
$5,500,000$5,500,000
RW, LW
M-NTC
UFA - 4
Logo of the Montreal Canadiens
$4,500,000$4,500,000
LW
UFA - 1
Logo of the Montreal Canadiens
$4,450,000$4,450,000
C
M-NTC
UFA - 2
Logo of the Montreal Canadiens
$2,000,000$2,000,000
LW, RW
RFA - 2
Logo of the Montreal Canadiens
$897,500$897,500
LW, RW
RFA - 2
Logo of the Montreal Canadiens
$1,700,000$1,700,000
C
UFA - 2
Logo of the Montreal Canadiens
$835,000$835,000 (Performance Bonus$57,500$58K)
LW, RW
RFA - 3
Logo of the Montreal Canadiens
$800,000$800,000
C, RW
UFA - 2
Left DefenseRight DefenseGoaltender
Logo of the Montreal Canadiens
$4,875,000$4,875,000
LD
M-NTC
UFA - 3
Logo of the San Jose Sharks
$10,000,000$10,000,000
RD
NMC
UFA - 4
Logo of the Montreal Canadiens
$1,000,000$1,000,000
G
UFA - 1
Logo of the Montreal Canadiens
$863,333$863,333 (Performance Bonus$420,000$420K)
LD/RD
RFA - 2
Logo of the Montreal Canadiens
$3,500,000$3,500,000
RD
UFA - 2
Logo of the Montreal Canadiens
$1,925,000$1,925,000
G
M-NTC
UFA - 2
Logo of the Montreal Canadiens
$828,333$828,333
LD/RD
RFA - 1
Logo of the Montreal Canadiens
$925,000$925,000 (Performance Bonus$275,000$275K)
RD
RFA - 1
Logo of the Montreal Canadiens
$1,400,000$1,400,000
LD/RD
RFA - 2
Logo of the Montreal Canadiens
$766,667$766,667
RD
UFA - 2
ScratchesInjured Reserve (IR)Long Term IR (LTIR)
Logo of the Montreal Canadiens
$10,500,000$10,500,000
G
NMC
UFA - 3

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May 11, 2023 at 6:29 a.m.
#1
deadpool
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San jose accept but why do montreal want those player they are still not a playoff team with them
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May 11, 2023 at 6:30 a.m.
#2
Torresing
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Quoting: kevinbergeron
San jose accept but why do montreal want those player they are still not a playoff team with them


How many vodkas does Grier drink to accept this god awful trade. Worst offer I've seen in months on here and that's really saying something.
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May 11, 2023 at 7:10 a.m.
#3
Defence Baby
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Well, if I'm the Sharks I take this and run. We will get Montreal #5 pick that means we can choose Michkov and Smith/Carlsson, which makes us a very young and dangerous in the future.
We get a large cap relief and we can start building from the bottom. I actually like it, we need to make this kind of moves to make through this rebuild one day.

I would counter with one change, that is probably not happening but change Hertl to Couture and take the Florida pick out. Couture is a playoff monster and I feel he will follow the Thornton/Pavelski/Marleau steps in longevity. He is scoring at a decent rate in regular season and with younger and more advanced players he can reach 70-75 points with no problem.
He will also be scoring some big goals when it matters.
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May 11, 2023 at 7:33 a.m.
#4
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Bad idea for Montreal when you consider the following:
- Dubois is available and would cost less than Hertl or might come as a UFA in 2024.
- Karlsson is a short term move, he is 33 years old, and the habs are not contenders. Trading the 5th overall pick which is a piece that the habs could use for 10+ years and better aligns with their window for contention is a bad idea in a deal such as this.
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May 11, 2023 at 7:33 a.m.
#5
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Quoting: Shanesaw9
Bad idea for Montreal when you consider the following:
- Dubois is available and would cost less than Hertl or might come as a UFA in 2024.
- Karlsson is a short term move, he is 33 years old, and the habs are not contenders. Trading the 5th overall pick which is a piece that the habs could use for 10+ years and better aligns with their window for contention is a bad idea in a deal such as this.


I know that. Read the description!
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May 11, 2023 at 7:35 a.m.
#6
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Quoting: jonh514
I know that. Read the description!


I understand you aren't serious, but you need to sell me more on the "clever idea" part of the description I think
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May 11, 2023 at 7:35 a.m.
#7
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Quoting: gegemoroo
Well, if I'm the Sharks I take this and run. We will get Montreal #5 pick that means we can choose Michkov and Smith/Carlsson, which makes us a very young and dangerous in the future.
We get a large cap relief and we can start building from the bottom. I actually like it, we need to make this kind of moves to make through this rebuild one day.

I would counter with one change, that is probably not happening but change Hertl to Couture and take the Florida pick out. Couture is a playoff monster and I feel he will follow the Thornton/Pavelski/Marleau steps in longevity. He is scoring at a decent rate in regular season and with younger and more advanced players he can reach 70-75 points with no problem.
He will also be scoring some big goals when it matters.


No deal. I like Hertl!
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May 11, 2023 at 7:47 a.m.
#8
Banned
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May 11, 2023 at 7:50 a.m.
#9
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Quoting: Shanesaw9
You need to sell me more on the "clever idea" part of the description I think


I do think this helps the Habs in various ways:

1) I think this is a playoff team (but then I have my own opinions about how to produce offence in the modern NHL and I am happy with our current goaltending at less than 5M/season)

2) I think Hertl is a less talented but more consistent player than PLD so if I'm spending 8M I prefer to do it on a player I believe will show up every night

3) I think Karlsson will put all of the defensemen on this team "in their right chairs" and having a rover like him will fix our power play

4) I think putting up big points as individuals will help guys like Zuke, Caufield, Dach, Slaf to build confidence and having a working powerplay will do that

5) Every underachieving veteran is off the team year 2 (we can even buy out Hoffman if we want to) and that opens up flexibility to let our fairly deep prospect pool get 1 or 2 "cups of coffee" in the NHL each season

6) Yes this is shorter-term than say Michkov, but I still think this gives us 3-4 good years of Hertl/Karlsson since Karlsson does not play a physical game and then with Karlsson off the team and the cap going up, Hertl at 8M is really not gonna seem that bad even if he ends up in the 3rd line

That's basically it!
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May 11, 2023 at 7:55 a.m.
#10
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Quoting: Blacktown
How many vodkas does Grier drink to accept this god awful trade. Worst offer I've seen in months on here and that's really saying something.


Thanks for sharing your perspective sir. It helps to balance out all the Habs fans who think this is a terrible trade for Montreal!
May 11, 2023 at 8:04 a.m.
#11
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Edited May 11, 2023 at 8:42 a.m.
Quoting: jonh514
I do think this helps the Habs in various ways:

1) I think this is a playoff team (but then I have my own opinions about how to produce offence in the modern NHL and I am happy with our current goaltending at less than 5M/season)

2) I think Hertl is a less talented but more consistent player than PLD so if I'm spending 8M I prefer to do it on a player I believe will show up every night

3) I think Karlsson will put all of the defensemen on this team "in their right chairs" and having a rover like him will fix our power play

4) I think putting up big points as individuals will help guys like Zuke, Caufield, Dach, Slaf to build confidence and having a working powerplay will do that

5) Every underachieving veteran is off the team year 2 (we can even buy out Hoffman if we want to) and that opens up flexibility to let our fairly deep prospect pool get 1 or 2 "cups of coffee" in the NHL each season

6) Yes this is shorter-term than say Michkov, but I still think this gives us 3-4 good years of Hertl/Karlsson since Karlsson does not play a physical game and then with Karlsson off the team and the cap going up, Hertl at 8M is really not gonna seem that bad even if he ends up in the 3rd line

That's basically it!


1. I also believe this team could push for playoffs, but considering you're trading the 5th overall pick which is more of a 2nd or 3rd overall pick in a typical draft year, do you think pushing for playoffs next season is the right move? Aside from Hutson the habs don't have any elite prospects in the system (non-NHL). So if this group doesn't get it done we are looking at another rebuild / re-tool.

2. You also have to consider that Hertl will be 36 by the end of his 7 years, Dubois would be 32 after an 8 year deal, and being younger he may have higher upside (he is already more productive).

3. Karlsson would absolutely be nice to have, not gonna dispute that, but we need to consider the context. Also Hoffman has to go if you're getting Karlsson which I'm sure we would buy him out or trade him. Karlsson also has a NMC which may block this trade.

4. A good powerplay will take these kids to the next level yes. Edit: but giving a spot to Karlsson also limits PP contributions from other young guys like Barron and Mailloux (maybe even Hutson is PP2).

5. It's a deep prospect pool but it isn't one that is full of high end talent, and I feel we are still missing 1 or 2 elite prospects before we can end the rebuild.

6. I can't project 3-4 years when Karlsson is gone but if we don't win with Karlsson and we don't draft high with Karlsson then there are no more top prospects coming.
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May 11, 2023 at 8:45 a.m.
#12
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Quoting: Shanesaw9
1. I also believe this team could push for playoffs, but considering you're trading the 5th overall pick which is more of a 2nd or 3rd overall pick in a typical draft year, do you think pushing for playoffs next season is the right move? Aside from Hutson the habs don't have any elite prospects in the system (non-NHL). So if this group doesn't get it done we are looking at another rebuild / re-tool.

2. You also have to consider that Hertl will be 36 by the end of his 7 years, Dubois would be 32 after an 8 year deal, and being younger he may have higher upside (he is already more productive).

3. Karlsson would absolutely be nice to have, not gonna dispute that, but we need to consider the context. Also Hoffman has to go if you're getting Karlsson which I'm sure we would buy him out or trade him. Karlsson also has a NMC which may block this trade.

4. A good powerplay will take these kids to the next level yes.

5. It's a deep prospect pool but it isn't one that is full of high end talent, and I feel we are still missing 1 or 2 elite prospects before we can end the rebuild.

6. I can't project 3-4 years when Karlsson is gone but if we don't win with Karlsson and we don't draft high with Karlsson then there are no more top prospects coming.


*Please keep in context that I am playing Devil's advocate here

1) I disagree. You are right about the Elite talent, but if Suzuki is putting up 90pts seasons as a 27-28 year old and Caufield is putting up 40-50 goal seasons as a 24-25 year old and Dach & Slaf are both 60-70 pts guys, and we've been in the playoffs 4 years in a row... we will be able to attract quality free agents if we need to add talent. Also it's early and he's not much discussed, but I think Engstrom is a sleeper Elite player

2 a) All players have their ups and downs and their expiry dates, but I am more focused on the fact that Hertl shows up nightly like Suzuki and Dubois (IMO) does not. This character flaw exists in a lot of players and as far as I can tell, if it's in you you never lose it

2 b) It's an unfair statement because I believe if you swapped Hertl & PLD this year, Hertl puts up 70+ pts in WPG & PLD puts up less than 60 in SJ

3) Yeah we would trade him or buy him out. Gotta suspend disbelief on the NMC, but I don't think he would block it if he knew the deal was for him & Hertl and he'd be going to a competitive team

4) Glad we agree

5) Look at Boston, Tampa, etc. Their best players were drafted in later rounds through good scouting and luck. Heck look at the Habs: Roy, Hutson, Beck... These are later picks and are probably our top 3 prospects. Elite talent is not only selected top 8. Also look at all the top 8s who fail to develop like Holtz, Zadina, Puljujarvi.... There are no guarantees

6) Same answer as 5. As long as we don't make a Habit of trading all our picks like Tampa, we will be ok
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May 11, 2023 at 9:04 a.m.
#13
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Quoting: Blacktown
How many vodkas does Grier drink to accept this god awful trade. Worst offer I've seen in months on here and that's really saying something.


you get number 5 and 29, hertl isn't consistent enough to be overvaluing him, it is also cap relief, it's not the worst offer i've seen at all
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May 11, 2023 at 9:10 a.m.
#14
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Quoting: jonh514
5) Look at Boston, Tampa, etc. Their best players were drafted in later rounds through good scouting and luck. Heck look at the Habs: Roy, Hutson, Beck... These are later picks and are probably our top 3 prospects. Elite talent is not only selected top 8. Also look at all the top 8s who fail to develop like Holtz, Zadina, Puljujarvi.... There are no guarantees


I see merit in most of what you're saying except for this one point. Yes, you can find elite talent later in the draft and no there are no guarantees early in the draft, however it's a fact that elite talent is easier to come by earlier in the draft. A few outliers do not change this.

Ultimately this comes down to individual perspective on MTL, do you think they should keep rebuilding or should the rebuild end?

Personally, I think they they will be getting either Michkov or Smith. I would not trade that pick as I see these players as key parts of MTL's future:

Caufield - Suzuki - Dach
Slafkovsky - Dubois - Michkov / Smith

Michkov or Smith aren't going to help next year, so MTL might as well stay on the rebuild. Use your cap space to gain more picks / prospects, get another year closer to ending some bad contracts, likely finish low and get another high draft pick, lastly try to acquire another young project like Dach and see how he does in MTL with more opportunity (Lafreniere?). After that season, I'm all in. Push to get Dubois to sign in MTL, make your trades then to shape the team into being a competitive playoff contender, by 2026 Michkov and Smith should be impactful NHL'rs still on ELC.

That's my vision anyways, like I said it depends on individual perspective. Had we drafted Bedard I would say go for it.
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May 11, 2023 at 9:12 a.m.
#15
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Quoting: Shanesaw9
I see merit in most of what you're saying except for this one point. Yes, you can find elite talent later in the draft and no there are no guarantees early in the draft, however it's a fact that elite talent is easier to come by earlier in the draft. A few outliers do not change this.

Ultimately this comes down to individual perspective on MTL, do you think they should keep rebuilding or should the rebuild end?

Personally, I think they they will be getting either Michkov or Smith. I would not trade that pick as I see these players as key parts of MTL's future:

Caufield - Suzuki - Dach
Slafkovsky - Dubois - Michkov / Smith

Michkov or Smith aren't going to help next year, so MTL might as well stay on the rebuild. Use your cap space to gain more picks / prospects, get another year closer to ending some bad contracts, likely finish low and get another high draft pick, lastly try to acquire another young project like Dach and see how he does in MTL with more opportunity (Lafreniere?). After that season, I'm all in. Push to get Dubois to sign in MTL, make your trades then to shape the team into being a competitive playoff contender, by 2026 Michkov and Smith should be impactful NHL'rs still on ELC.

That's my vision anyways, like I said it depends on individual perspective. Had we drafted Bedard I would say go for it.


Ok, but I think 3 more years from now, you lose Caufield for sure and you maybe lose Zuke. I don't know that Caufield wants to sign 8 years when 4 years is a rebuild.
May 11, 2023 at 9:27 a.m.
#16
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Quoting: jonh514
Ok, but I think 3 more years from now, you lose Caufield for sure and you maybe lose Zuke. I don't know that Caufield wants to sign 8 years when 4 years is a rebuild.


I said we rebuild for 1 more year, not 4. Suzuki is captain of MTL and already locked up for 7 more seasons. Caufield is under team control as an RFA for 4 more seasons. He will be signed long term this offseason as MTL has copious amounts of cap space, but if he doesn't and by year 3 when MTL is competitive and if he's being a sour puss as you claim then you trade him for a top defenseman as he will be replaceable by Smith or Michkov.

He will sign 8 years though, I wouldn't worry about that. Also what makes you think Cole would be more likely to stick around for a team that has no elite prospects, a 33 year old Hertl, losing a 37 year old Karlsson over a team that has potentially the best KHL prospect coming over to join what should be an already competitive team?
May 12, 2023 at 3:21 a.m.
#17
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Quoting: Blacktown
A moronic proposal begs a dumb reply. Welcome to the world.


What would make it work assuming the NTCs say yes.
5th OA is worth a lot this draft. I actually think this is not smart for MTL because I don't see them competing again anytime soon unless Price is resurrected.
 
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