Confused Sabres Fans

Forums/Armchair-GM

First23

Page 2 of 3

Created by: worldwidesensei

Team: 2023-24 Buffalo Sabres

Initial Creation Date: May 11, 2023

Published: May 11, 2023

Salary Cap Mode: Basic

Description

I really don't understand all of the tinkering Sabres fans are doing. The roster is pretty much set. If GMKA does nothing, it wouldn't surprise me, nor would I be mad about it. I've made 2 keep additions though. Compher and Mayfield.

I'm fine extending years and/or AAV because these players will hold value and can be moved quite easily and have almost no impact on tomorrow's cap nor affect our cap space dramatically in the future. 2 players is about all I expect KA to do, and that is kind of a maximum. I could easily see him making no changes. The changes will come from player development. We won't have 7 rookies next year (Power, Samuelsson, UPL, Levi, Quinn, Krebs, JJP). That's the improvement BUF fans are looking for.

I've got 24 on the roster now, but Bryson, Levi, or Comrie can be in ROC.

Free Agent Signings

UFA	YEARS	CAP HIT
Compher, J.T.	5	$4,500,000
Okposo, Kyle	1	$3,000,000
Girgensons, Zemgus	3	$2,500,000
Mayfield, Scott	4	$6,000,000

Buyouts

Christian Ehrhoff: $0

Draft	Round 1	Round 2	Round 3	Round 4	Round 5	Round 6	Round 7
2023
2024
2025

ROSTER

LONG-TERM OUTLOOK

EMBED

TEXT-EMBED

ROSTER SIZE	SALARY CAP	CAP HIT	OVERAGES	BONUSES	CAP SPACE
24	$82,500,000	$77,977,737	$0	$4,070,000	$4,522,263

Left Wing	Centre	Right Wing
Skinner, Jeff $9,000,000$9,000,000 LW, RW NMC UFA - 4	Thompson, Tage $7,142,857$7,142,857 C UFA - 7	Tuch, Alex $4,750,000$4,750,000 RW, LW M-NTC UFA - 3
Peterka, John-Jason $855,833$855,833 ($32,500$32K) LW, RW RFA - 2	Cozens, Dylan $7,100,000$7,100,000 C, LW UFA - 7	Quinn, Jack $863,333$863,333 ($850,000$850K) RW, LW RFA - 2
Mittelstadt, Casey $2,500,000$2,500,000 LW, C RFA - 1	Krebs, Peyton $863,333$863,333 ($412,500$412K) C, LW RFA - 1	Olofsson, Victor $4,750,000$4,750,000 RW, LW UFA - 1
Girgensons, Zemgus $2,500,000$2,500,000 LW, C UFA - 1	Compher, J.T. $4,500,000$4,500,000 C, RW UFA - 5	Okposo, Kyle $3,000,000$3,000,000 RW UFA - 1
Greenway, Jordan $3,000,000$3,000,000 LW, RW UFA - 2

Left Defense	Right Defense	Goaltender
Dahlin, Rasmus $6,000,000$6,000,000 LD/RD UFA - 1	Samuelsson, Mattias $4,285,714$4,285,714 LD UFA - 7	Luukkonen, Ukko-Pekka $837,500$837,500 G RFA - 1
Power, Owen $916,667$916,667 ($1,850,000$2M) LD/RD UFA - 1	Mayfield, Scott $6,000,000$6,000,000 RD UFA - 7	Levi, Devon $925,000$925,000 ($925,000$925K) G RFA - 2
Jokiharju, Henri $2,500,000$2,500,000 RD RFA - 1	Lyubushkin, Ilya $687,500$687,500 RD UFA - 1	Comrie, Eric $1,800,000$1,800,000 G UFA - 1
Stillman, Riley $1,350,000$1,350,000 LD RFA - 1	Bryson, Jacob $1,850,000$1,850,000 LD/RD RFA - 1

May 11, 2023 at 3:35 p.m.

#26

worldwidesensei

Thread Starter

Joined: Feb. 2018

Posts: 1,532

Likes: 772

Quoting: BUFF36

Let's get to the playoffs 1st and Okposo and Girgensons aren't the ones to do it, atleast both and Okposo at 3Mill ridiculous, and if your bringing in Compher he should probably be between Mitts and Olofsson with his 200ft game. And actually don't understand having Mitts and Olofsson together, Mitts played his best hockey away from him. Depth is one thing, spending stupid money is another.

The lines change, we all know that. $3mm for a captain is not ridiculous.

gretzkyghosts liked this.

May 11, 2023 at 3:49 p.m.

#27

Stadel

Joined: Jun. 2015

Posts: 3,392

Likes: 2,152

Quoting: worldwidesensei

Let's see...

CAR: 4 players 23 or younger, 7 players 25 or younger, 16 players older than 25
FLA: 1 player 23 or younger, 6 players 25 or ounger, 19 players older than 25
TOR: 2 players 23 or younger, 6 players 25 or younger, 17 players older than 25
NJD: 5 players 23 or younger, 13 players 25 or younger, 11 players older than 25

Your chart sucks.

Chart adjusts for when players make the most impact, thus "prime".

You just pulled randomly on who is what age, not which players are doing the most. Seth Jarvis, and important player for CAR, is under the age of 23, for example.

My data doesn't exclude anyone, yours does in order to fit your argument. So you can lash out like a child all you want, but nobody will take this level of argument seriously.

May 11, 2023 at 3:54 p.m.

#28

palhal

LongtimeLeafsufferer

Joined: Jul. 2015

Posts: 60,054

Likes: 22,987

An absurd overpay for Mayfield

gretzkyghosts and OrganizedConfusion55 liked this.

May 11, 2023 at 3:55 p.m.

#29

worldwidesensei

Thread Starter

Joined: Feb. 2018

Posts: 1,532

Likes: 772

Quoting: Stadel

I'm not exluding anyone. I'm literally including everyone who has played in any game in the 2023 playoffs. Not sure what you mean. You have cherry picked Jarvis. Cool.

May 11, 2023 at 3:56 p.m.

#30

worldwidesensei

Thread Starter

Joined: Feb. 2018

Posts: 1,532

Likes: 772

Edited May 11, 2023 at 4:02 p.m.

Quoting: palhal

An absurd overpay for Mayfield

It's an overpay, I agree, but BUF can afford it and they could really use him. I'd obviously start with a lower AAV, but I'd be willing to go that high.

gretzkyghosts liked this.

May 11, 2023 at 3:58 p.m.

#31

palhal

LongtimeLeafsufferer

Joined: Jul. 2015

Posts: 60,054

Likes: 22,987

Quoting: worldwidesensei

It's an overpay, I agree, but BUF can afford it and they could really use him.

???? Sabres really can't afford it. Look at yourroster. Near the cap with bonuses to pay. Next season Dahlin and Power get raises.
A lot better options cheaper with less term

gretzkyghosts liked this.

May 11, 2023 at 3:59 p.m.

#32

worldwidesensei

Thread Starter

Joined: Feb. 2018

Posts: 1,532

Likes: 772

Quoting: Stadel

Hard to take you seriously. Look at playoff teams, look at the previous Cup winners, Cup teams. All of them have the majority of their players 26+ years or older. So, your chart sucks. Plain and Simple.

26+ players and 26+ teams rule the league.

May 11, 2023 at 4:01 p.m.

#33

worldwidesensei

Thread Starter

Joined: Feb. 2018

Posts: 1,532

Likes: 772

Quoting: palhal

???? Sabres really can't afford it. Look at yourroster. Near the cap with bonuses to pay. Next season Dahlin and Power get raises.
A lot better options cheaper with less term

Yes, they can, I've got an entire spreadsheet. Olofsson, Okposo, Greenway, Bryson, Lyubushkin, Stillman, Comrie free up tons of cap space. Plus the cap is going up.

Feel free to ridicule me. What are the better cheapre options with less term?

gretzkyghosts liked this.

May 11, 2023 at 4:01 p.m.

#34

Stadel

Joined: Jun. 2015

Posts: 3,392

Likes: 2,152

Quoting: worldwidesensei

I'm not exluding anyone. I'm literally including everyone who has played in any game in the 2023 playoffs. Not sure what you mean. You have cherry picked Jarvis. Cool.

Again, this is a fallacy where you are ignoring the bulk of what I said simply to make your argument seem better. Jarvis was part of an example, illustrating how your data was ignoring crucial information. Since prime is meant to demonstrate peak impact, the chart measures on average, what age each position seems to have the best impact in a full season.

You included players from a few teams, but neglected to isolate for which players were driving results for their respective teams. Thats why i used jarvis as an example. To demonstrate that, while a team may have older players, that doesnt mean those guys are performing at their peak nor are they the ones doing the heavy lifting.

May 11, 2023 at 4:04 p.m.

#35

Stadel

Joined: Jun. 2015

Posts: 3,392

Likes: 2,152

Quoting: worldwidesensei

But how old are their best players? You know, the ones who do the heavy lifting?

Look you dont want to take me seriously, that's fine. I'm not going to waste more time on someone who isn't interested in having a meaningful discussion. You always resort to just lashing out and attacking. Im not sure why. I genuinely try not to provoke this sort of response.

End of the day, we are all fans of the same team hoping for a playoff run. We all have that in common. Whichever way they get there, I am going to root for them. I assume you will as well.

May 11, 2023 at 4:10 p.m.

#36

worldwidesensei

Thread Starter

Joined: Feb. 2018

Posts: 1,532

Likes: 772

Quoting: Stadel

I resort to lashing out and attacking? Please tell me when I have done that. I've only provided my points. Take a look in the mirror.

May 11, 2023 at 4:13 p.m.

#37

Stadel

Joined: Jun. 2015

Posts: 3,392

Likes: 2,152

Quoting: worldwidesensei

I resort to lashing out and attacking? Please tell me when I have done that. I've only provided my points. Take a look in the mirror.

I haven't attacked anyone, ever. Plenty of ppl here think Im annoying, or dont like my opinions, but ive never once said anything to make them feel lesser. Certainly never say things like "Lol your chart sucks because i dont agree with it" (paraphrase)

You are more interested in making everyone feel dumb for disagreeing than having a genuine discussion.

May 11, 2023 at 4:21 p.m.

#38

worldwidesensei

Thread Starter

Joined: Feb. 2018

Posts: 1,532

Likes: 772

Quoting: Stadel

But how old are their best players? You know, the ones who do the heavy lifting?

Quoting: Stadel

But how old are their best players? You know, the ones who do the heavy lifting?

Your chart indicates the best players are 24 or younger:

SO let's see:

FLA: Lindell, Smith, Mahura, Luostarinen.... wow!!!!!!!!!
CAR: Jarvis, Drury, Kotkaniemi, Kochetkov, Puljujärvi, Necas....better...but not exactly doing the "heavy lifting"
TOR: Knies, Liligrenn, Woll....I mean
NJD: L. Hughes, Mercer, J. Hughes, Schmid, Bahl, Sharangovich, Boqvist, McCleod, Bratt, Hirschier,,,,the best Sabres comparison...looks like a 2nd round exit

Please tell me with a straight face that that list of players is doing "the heavy lifting"

May 11, 2023 at 4:28 p.m.

#39

Stadel

Joined: Jun. 2015

Posts: 3,392

Likes: 2,152

Quoting: worldwidesensei

I had a whole thing typed out but since you asked

With a straight face: players between 23-25 do the heavy lifting. Youll note from thechart that, while peak is around 22-24, a player remains effective at 25. The drop off happens around 27 ish. Which was my original contention, because you had first mentioned that prime age was 26-28. Your exact words were, that 26-28 year olds rule the league. I think if you looked closely, youd know thats not true.

May 11, 2023 at 4:31 p.m.

#40

worldwidesensei

Thread Starter

Joined: Feb. 2018

Posts: 1,532

Likes: 772

Quoting: Stadel

I haven't attacked anyone, ever.

How many times have you called my opinions "fallacy"? Not to mention your underhanded comments.

"Appears you are wrong."

"Most of the time there's actually 5 guys on the ice for either side. "

"So you can lash out like a child all you want,"

And those are just your most egregious comments. Most of them are snide. Not overtly rude, but the undertone is definitely rude.

Prove me wrong. Prove whatever you insist are fallacies.

Facts are on my side. Contenders all have the majority of their players 26+ older in age. Just. Simple. Facts.

May 11, 2023 at 4:32 p.m.

#41

worldwidesensei

Thread Starter

Joined: Feb. 2018

Posts: 1,532

Likes: 772

Quoting: Stadel

No it is true. Which SC teams have had a majority of 23-25 year old players? I'll wait.

May 11, 2023 at 4:33 p.m.

#42

Stadel

Joined: Jun. 2015

Posts: 3,392

Likes: 2,152

Quoting: worldwidesensei

Honest question: Is there any thing I could demonstrate or show you right now in the way of data that would even momentarily get you to reconsider your position? Its okay if the answer is no btw.

May 11, 2023 at 4:36 p.m.

#43

worldwidesensei

Thread Starter

Joined: Feb. 2018

Posts: 1,532

Likes: 772

Crazy how adding Compher and Mayfield has led to this. I think most BUF fans would be extremely happy with these additions.

gretzkyghosts liked this.

May 11, 2023 at 4:38 p.m.

#44

Stadel

Joined: Jun. 2015

Posts: 3,392

Likes: 2,152

Quoting: worldwidesensei

No it is true. Which 24-25 year olds have lead their team to a SC? I'll wait.

Makar? Point? Vasilevsky was 25 at the first SC? Rantanen? Tkachuk potentially this year? Robertson potentially this year? Oettinger maybe? Eichel's still 25, maybe him?

May 11, 2023 at 4:38 p.m.

#45

worldwidesensei

Thread Starter

Joined: Feb. 2018

Posts: 1,532

Likes: 772

Quoting: Stadel

Honest question: Is there any thing I could demonstrate or show you right now in the way of data that would even momentarily get you to reconsider your position? Its okay if the answer is no btw.

Show me a team that won the SC with a majority of players 25 or younger. If your chart is correct, the youngest teams in the league would be the SC contenders year in and year out. But, that is and has never been true.

Experience >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Youth.

Plain. Simple. Proven true over and over and over and over and over again.

gretzkyghosts liked this.

May 11, 2023 at 4:40 p.m.

#46

worldwidesensei

Thread Starter

Joined: Feb. 2018

Posts: 1,532

Likes: 772

Quoting: Stadel

Makar? Point? Vasilevsky was 25 at the first SC? Rantanen? Tkachuk potentially this year? Robertson potentially this year? Oettinger maybe? Eichel's still 25, maybe him?

All great players. Team sport. Remember? Check the average age of those teams.

May 11, 2023 at 4:42 p.m.

#47

Stadel

Joined: Jun. 2015

Posts: 3,392

Likes: 2,152

Quoting: worldwidesensei

You'll recall, my original point was that prime age is 23-25. Not that a team must be only 23-25 year olds. And for cup winners, many of their key players are in that range, as noted in the above list of examples.

May 11, 2023 at 4:43 p.m.

#48

worldwidesensei

Thread Starter

Joined: Feb. 2018

Posts: 1,532

Likes: 772

You love talking hockey. So do I. I appreciate your passion. Fact of the matter is, until you prove to me that either: A) Hockey only depends on one player (McDavid hasn't won ****), or Young players rule the league ( young teams have never won ****), then I have a hard time buying what you are saying.

May 11, 2023 at 4:44 p.m.

#49

worldwidesensei

Thread Starter

Joined: Feb. 2018

Posts: 1,532

Likes: 772

Quoting: Stadel

Huh? You listed 1 player from those teams. And you chart clearly shows 23 is peak age. Everyone just gets worse after that...right?

May 11, 2023 at 4:46 p.m.

#50

worldwidesensei

Thread Starter

Joined: Feb. 2018

Posts: 1,532

Likes: 772

Quoting: Stadel

Please do tell me which Cup winners had many (define many, you mean 1 or 2?) key players aged 23-25. I will wait.

First23

Page 2 of 3 (15 more posts)

DISPLAY SETTING

BETTING ODDS

LOCALE

ARCHIVE

CBA

CALCULATORS

FANTASY HOCKEY TOOLS

TOOLS

PLAYERS

WESTERN CONFERENCE

EASTERN CONFERENCE

INTERACTIVE FEATURES

Forums/Armchair-GM