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Should they go for something like this

Created by: AlTintin1122
Team: 2023-24 Calgary Flames
Initial Creation Date: May 11, 2023
Published: May 11, 2023
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1.
NJD
    I think he’d be a good fit. They have a lot of 2 way and playmakers and need a sniper. What do they have to give up? 16th overall or is that too much? Dube? Zary?
    2.
    Buried
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    May 11, 2023 at 7:21 p.m.
    #1
    n.1 Topias Vilen fan
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    Devils won't be selling low on Holtz. They will want him in the top 6 long term.
    NJDevils1317 liked this.
    May 11, 2023 at 7:41 p.m.
    #2
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    I don't think the Kings have any interest in Vladar. They already have Copley. If they're going to acquire a goaltender, it's going to be a bonafide starter, not a 1B/backup type.
    May 11, 2023 at 8:10 p.m.
    #3
    Sabres are elite
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    I bet Hanifin for Holtz 1 for 1 would work, NJD could use a bolster to the LHD after Sieg and Hughes
    May 11, 2023 at 9:17 p.m.
    #4
    Thread Starter
    Al-Tintin1122
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    Quoting: Skyraider112
    I bet Hanifin for Holtz 1 for 1 would work, NJD could use a bolster to the LHD after Sieg and Hughes


    I don’t think it makes sense because they won’t extend him cuz Hughes is gonna be more than a 3rd pair guy within a year
    May 11, 2023 at 9:40 p.m.
    #5
    TrevorA
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    Quoting: Skyraider112
    I bet Hanifin for Holtz 1 for 1 would work, NJD could use a bolster to the LHD after Sieg and Hughes

    Holtz + Boqvist or Seamus Casey + Nolan Foote or Reilly Walsh FOR Hanifin with an extension in place

    Holtz hasn’t really lived up to his Draft Pedigree. He’s not a bust, but he’s not enough by himself for Hanifin I don’t think
    AlTintin1122 liked this.
    May 12, 2023 at 9:56 a.m.
    #6
    Sabres are elite
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    Quoting: KingofRnR
    Holtz + Boqvist or Seamus Casey + Nolan Foote or Reilly Walsh FOR Hanifin with an extension in place

    Holtz hasn’t really lived up to his Draft Pedigree. He’s not a bust, but he’s not enough by himself for Hanifin I don’t think


    Idk you will be hard pressed to find an 19 year old rookie score 26 goals and have 51 points in 52 games in the AHL. He was near a ppg this past season as well. How that isn't living up to draft position I'm not sure, he hasn't got an extended chance in the NHL yet to show what he can do
    May 12, 2023 at 9:08 p.m.
    #7
    TrevorA
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    Quoting: Skyraider112
    Idk you will be hard pressed to find an 19 year old rookie score 26 goals and have 51 points in 52 games in the AHL. He was near a ppg this past season as well. How that isn't living up to draft position I'm not sure, he hasn't got an extended chance in the NHL yet to show what he can do

    Our Jakob Pelletier scored 27 his AHL Rookie Season

    Holtz was picked 7th Overall. I guess I just expect more from a Top-10 Pick, but he’s young, hence why I don’t consider him a bust by any means, he still has time to shine
    May 13, 2023 at 1:13 a.m.
    #8
    Sabres are elite
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    Quoting: KingofRnR
    Our Jakob Pelletier scored 27 his AHL Rookie Season

    Holtz was picked 7th Overall. I guess I just expect more from a Top-10 Pick, but he’s young, hence why I don’t consider him a bust by any means, he still has time to shine


    He was 20, not 19. Yes I know that's only 1 year but for young prospects a year is a huge difference. Also Holtz' rookie AHL season was his first on NA ice, which put him at a disadvantage yet he still produced a ppg which is impressive.
    May 13, 2023 at 8:33 p.m.
    #9
    TrevorA
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    Quoting: Skyraider112
    He was 20, not 19. Yes I know that's only 1 year but for young prospects a year is a huge difference. Also Holtz' rookie AHL season was his first on NA ice, which put him at a disadvantage yet he still produced a ppg which is impressive.

    Both guys were impressive in their AHL Rookie Seasons

    I don’t think a year matters too much, but I get & appreciated the differences between European & North American Hockey certainly being challenge for sure.
    May 14, 2023 at 8:16 p.m.
    #10
    Sabres are elite
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    Quoting: KingofRnR
    Both guys were impressive in their AHL Rookie Seasons

    I don’t think a year matters too much, but I get & appreciated the differences between European & North American Hockey certainly being challenge for sure.


    Every year between the ages of 15-23 are big for developing players, forwards more so in that range. D keep develop slower so around 25-26 and goalies until around 29-30. My point being a forward prospect takes a massive leap in development every season from 15-20, and usually smaller but still important steps for a few years after those. So if two players have the same output in the same league but one is one year older, the younger player is more impressive by a significant margin. At least that's how I see it. Imagine someone like Bedard. If he could have played on Chicago this past season at 17 years of age I'd bet he still would have been able to put up 40-50 points in the NHL. Now with his upcoming season at 18 I'm gonna guess he'll be around 70-80 points. That's a huge difference.
    May 14, 2023 at 10:26 p.m.
    #11
    TrevorA
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    Edited May 15, 2023 at 6:29 p.m.
    Quoting: Skyraider112
    Every year between the ages of 15-23 are big for developing players, forwards more so in that range. D keep develop slower so around 25-26 and goalies until around 29-30. My point being a forward prospect takes a massive leap in development every season from 15-20, and usually smaller but still important steps for a few years after those. So if two players have the same output in the same league but one is one year older, the younger player is more impressive by a significant margin. At least that's how I see it. Imagine someone like Bedard. If he could have played on Chicago this past season at 17 years of age I'd bet he still would have been able to put up 40-50 points in the NHL. Now with his upcoming season at 18 I'm gonna guess he'll be around 70-80 points. That's a huge difference.

    Yes, I’m constantly education ppl here about how forwards develop & peak faster than D-Men and Goalies, but there’s lots of considerations here

    How bout their size. Holtz is listed at 6ft/192lbs while Pelletier is only 5’9/165lbs. Takes a lot of guys time to fill out. Bedard has an advantage as well being 5’10/185lbs already

    Next would be rink size and physicality. Int’l ice is much bigger, so there’s more space to work with and less hitting, whereas it’s a tighter closer and more physical game here in North America. The QJMHL is more of a high offence and less physical and defensive game, but Pelletier had the advantage of playing in tighter spaces

    My point is there’s so many considerations, but your first year in any league is usually challenging, but especially professional hockey, even and including the AHL where you’re playing against men the same size or bigger than you. They’re either prospects on the same road you are, experienced fringe player or former NHL’ers, so although it’s not the best in the world, it’s a bigger, stronger, substantially more physical league that both would have to adjust too and did exceptionally well

    Again, my expectation of Holtz is much higher given his size and draft position, but your points are all valid as well

    As for guys picked 1st overall, they’re typically phenoms, so can skip the AHL, but not always. Slafkovsky has amazing size, but needs time to adjust to the North American game, same goes for Nemec. You’re right that Bedard is likely already NHL Ready though, so will start in the Big League right away
    Skyraider112 liked this.
    May 15, 2023 at 12:33 p.m.
    #12
    Sabres are elite
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    Quoting: KingofRnR
    Yes, I’m constantly education ppl here about how forwards develop & peak faster than D-Men and Goalies, but there’s lots of considerations here

    How bout their size. Holtz is listed at 6ft/192lbs while Pelletier is only 5’9/165lbs. Takes a lot of guys time to fill out. Bedard has an advantage as well being 5’10/185lbs already

    Next would be rink size and physicality. Int’l ice is much bigger, so there’s more space to work with and less hiring, whereas it’s a tighter closer and more physical game here in North America. The QJMHL is more of a high offence and less physical and defensive game, but Pelletier had the advantage of playing in tighter spaces

    My point is there’s so many considerations, but your first year in any league is usually challenging, but especially professional hockey, even and including the AHL where you’re playing against men the same size or bigger than you. They’re either prospects on the same road you are, experienced fringe player or former NHL’ers, so although it’s not the best in the world, it’s a bigger, stronger, substantially more physical league that both would have to adjust too and did exceptionally well

    Again, my expectation of Holtz is much higher given his size and draft position, but your points are all valid as well

    As for guys picked 1st overall, they’re typically phenoms, so can skip the AHL, but not always. Slafkovsky has amazing size, but needs time to adjust to the North American game, same goes for Nemec. You’re right that Bedard is likely already NHL Ready though, so will start in the Big League right away


    Thanks for your insight!
    KingofRnR liked this.
     
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