They'll be pretenders again. Maybe this time make the postseason. Jarry will need to stay healthy for that to happen.

Honestly, I'm not even sure they make the post season with this. Defense is the same as last year in front of Jarry which was not good, another year of age on the big 3, Smith is less productive than Zucker, and bottom 6 while changed doesn't exactly scream depth scoring ability to me. Additionally, other teams got better around us in the standings. Could be a long 82 games.

Depth forwards will be much better defensively. Though I still see them as pathetic offensively. HUGE demands are being placed on 30+ year old players (Rakell, Rust, Smith, Eller) and even more on 35+ year old players (Crosby, Letang, Malkin, Petry). Age decline from even a few of them and this team is sunk without some goaltending magic.

Yup which with Jarry's past track record of being able to perform in clutch moments...... I really don't see happening. I aslo see Petry taking a Carteresque nose dive in production which is bad bad.... Good news we will have a lot of cap in this next off season bad news is need to sign Jake.

Agreed on all fronts and with the original post. If this is the roster going into opening night I would be shocked if they make playoffs (assuming they don't make a major trade at start of season). The 3rd line would be the worst in the league. Worse than Carter Kapanen McGinn. 4th line is great assuming we have a scoring 3rd line which we don't. Defense is basically the same as last year with Graves being an upgrade, but defense last year was truly awful so I don't think one player changes it. Red Wings, Senators, and Sabres probably all make playoffs. Not looking great at the moment, but like to think Dubas knows the roster needs bigger changes than this

See I don't know. The Pens were the unluckiest team in the NHL last season.

They were:

9th in Corsi
3rd in expected goals for
18th in expected goals against
8th in expected goal differential
But,
21st in goals for
19th in goals against
18th in goal differential

Why? They were 28th in shooting percentage, making them 32nd in goals for above expected.

Giving them a league average shooting percentage, they would have scored 25ish more goals and made the playoffs comfortably.

This is key too, if there's one injury to the top 6 or if the core doesn't completely take over most games and completely carry the team then our chances are done right there and then.

I see what your saying, but I don't know if I'd call it bad luck. The team is bad at finishing and has no goal scorers outside the top 6 or Letang on D. It's been a problem for years and just has never been addressed. Also have to factor in how much the east has improved. Even if it was bad luck the rest of the teams are so much better. This is all assuming none of our key players who are older decline either. A lot would have to go right with this roster to make playoffs.

I wouldn't expect a huge improvement in finishing given the offseason. I do believe Karlsson would be such an offensive weapon where you would see a profound offensive production improvement.

I agree with your overall sentiment, but the defense is definitely better than last year(Graves in for Dumo) and Smith is more productive than Zucker. But yeah - I agree there hasn't been enough done to move the needle at all. On paper it's not looking too great

I mean yes there were times when the Pens played games that the other teams goalie looked like they were going for Vezina contention, however how of that was due to extra prep because they knew they were facing Sid and Geno..... for so many years this has been the case, but both of them are such world class hockey players it truly wouldn't matter some nights. See current Connor McDavid and Draisaitl for comparison. Did they get unlucky a few games sure, but also there were nights when they literally were just logo sniping the goalie as well which makes making saves just that much easier. Im sorry, but unless theres a significant addition offensively to take pressure off of 59, 87, 67 and 71, 17, whoever is lined up with them on 2 of scoring then this teams in trouble big trouble. Because night in and night out these two lines will get teams top defensive lines and throw out their offense vs Carter line.

I'd say currently they're the 10th or 11th best team in the east. Which is really really bad. Karlsson would completely change that though. Having him and Letang as 1 and 2 right D would be a complete game changer and Karlsson would to some extent make up from the lack of production in the bottom 6. I was watching his highlights last year and it's crazy how much space he creates. He's such a good skater he draws people towards him which allows him to find our guys wide open for easy goals. Would be such a boost to the top 6 as well. I could see players like Rakell, Smith, and others having massive seasons if we get Karlsson. If we get him I'd be comfortable saying we could win a playoff series. If we go in with the roster as is though I think we fall out of playoff mix fast.

Just one question, how much are you willing to sacrifice of the next 10 years to get Karlsson? If I were in Dubas position, I'd pretty much sacrifice everything because I think if you get one more cup with 87 and 71 then the fan base would be sufficed for a while in that time of rebuild. Because you could always say yes I know we suck in this position we're in now, but at least we got another cup run out of Sid and the boys

I'm fine giving up a 1st, 2nd, and POJ. I would probably be willing to include Pickering too even though I'd prefer not to. I am very hesitant to give up 1sts unless I know it would for sure make us a playoff team comfortably and I think getting Karlsson would. I just don't see another move we could make at the moment that would be a big enough game changer to get us into the playoffs. Even if we don't win the cup I think Karlsson would make the last 2 maybe 3 years of contending really fun and we'd have a good shot to win some playoff series. And you never know, once you get in playoffs anything could happen. To me this is the only option.

I wouldn't call the defense awful. Below average sure. I am skeptical on the Red Wings and Senators. Sabres should be able to make it with any goals allowed improvement. I also expect Boston and both New York teams to be weaker. Boston could have a historic collapse. Their centers and depth are gone right now.

I agree, however I also think that if you give it a little longer and wait til we get closer to the start of the season, I'd say a couple weeks before preseason games start, theres the possibility Karlsson requests the trade and it gets to where the price drops in what SJS is asking for. With Karlsson having a NTC he can make his list very tough on SJS, similar to what Kessel did to us in forcing us to trade him to Arizona.

Boston will be weaker for sure, especially if 37 retires officially. I still think they're gonna be a playoff contender though. Isles will be meh and Rangers will be meh but meh is still better than what we are right now in my eyes

I could honestly see them being anywhere from like 8th to 12th. Yeah I mean Karlsson would just be an immediate boost all around - maybe not defensive play lol - but the offensive performance will outweigh the defensive issues imo. He would be amazing for the transition game which I thought was terrible last year - as well as the powerplay.

The roster as is definitely isn't great. I could see them fighting for a WC2 with like 5 other teams - even if they did somehow make it I doubt they'd go anywhere though.

Look at their lineups. All of those teams have no forward depth either and will be HEAVILY reliant on their goalies stealing games. I could see all three struggling. I think the average is 4-5 new playoff teams every year. Not saying PIT looks great- they don't. But outside of NJD, CAR, and TOR, I think any of the remaining teams have major lineup issues.

I understand and agree on the Boston decline - but why the New York teams?

Rangers have lost their forward depth. Their core is also older than people realize and they rushed their rebuild so no more young players coming up. Kakko and Lafreniere have not developed beyond middle of lineup players. Those two are on the verge of being busts for being top two picks. They have no cap flexibility to do anything either.
Islanders would be a lottery team without Sorokin. If he isn't elite, they're done. He was elite last year and they're still a WC team. I don't think the EC will be nearly as strong from top to bottom for this season as last.

Dumo did look better at then end of the season. But that still doesn't come close to being absolutely terrible for the first like 60 games.

Yeah I'm not saying there aren't other defensive issues, like Carter - just saying the defense isn't the same. They at least improved somewhat in that aspect. I don't like the Eller signing at all, but at least he's good defensively, way more than Carter lol. Yeah it did - and it does haha

Just took a look at what all these teams have currently: Boston, while they may not have the same team as last year (thank goodness) they're still really solid structurally, they have one of the best lines in hockey still with Pasta Marchand and whoever you want to put between them currently projected as Coyle, the rest of their lines are solid defensively and have scoring touches again not as prolific as last year but still solid and their defense pairings are still great and have at least Ullmark under contract. They will be contenders for the Atlantic for sure. NYR, minus Tarasenko and Kane basically similar team to before those trades, which with Igor between the pipes was a top 3 team in the Metro. NYI, Sorokin was great probably still will be center core and d pairings still strong just this team has absolutely no scoring capability which could plague them like the Pens, but on paper they're technically better I guess, but its not leaps and bounds better.

im just afraid we're going to be going into this season with a roster make up very similar to last years just 87 71 and 58 are another year older