"Trust me bro" is literally your only argument?

https://youtu.be/MNfhBDqqoIQ?si=bqNXfCWIOl-gq-dO

https://youtu.be/Ar3Ycaxaucs?si=pZtgQn7yUFateWcH

I got many more if you want

Please do, send all of them. All I'm seeing is a mistake and a puck bouncing away from a 20 year old forward who, by the way, scored 100 points in 2 seasons on a terrible Wings team.

Keep the excuses coming

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0fLyXdn7_T0
Lot more than 2 good things in here.

We don't need Nazar or Moore to score 58 points this season or next season, though. We just need to keep rebuilding, keep our assets, and not make stupid knee jerk "win now" trades that will only screw us in the long run and not bring Stanley cups to CHI.

Also, he is younger by a few months to a year... They are still better more well rounded players that I would be way more interested in than Raymond.

That's why we got Edmundson lmfao. The Caps don't want/need/have room for a 4.75 million dollar defenseman for three more years when our top 4 is locked up for 3 years, and we have Sandin at RFA status next year, and Alexeyev at RFA status the year after. Not to mention Lucas Johansen finally looks ready to play some NHL games, and Iorio isn't too far away. It's a hard no on Chiarot.

Basically an unprotected 1st in the mid to end of their rebuild for Raymond? lol ok

I don't usually resurrect threads, but life gets busy and I've been away for a bit.
You're completely missing my point. What makes Nazar a better prospect than Raymond was? How do you classify his success? In Raymond's D+1 season, he was putting up roughly 1/2 PPG in the SHL. Nazar is putting up a PPG in the NCAA. Big difference between college and professional hockey. D+2, Raymond was posting 57 points in the NHL. Does Nazar even make the NHL next season? What kind of impact does he have? Same with Moore, but to a lesser extent. That's what I'm asking, not what Chicago needs.

That isn't what I said, though. What I said was "we have multiple prospects that SHOULD be AS GOOD or (possibly) BETTER". Plus, we have all the time in the world for these kids to develop and join the NHL ranks. We don't need them now or next year, unless they are ready. So, nothing makes him a better prospect than Raymond was other than the fact that we have him and we don't have to spend anything to get him. "Better" is subjective anyway. It all depends on what a given GM is trying to build, how that team plays or wants to play, as well as being a cultural fit. Obviously, Nazar fits something that KD likes and envisions being part of CHI's future. He is tough, a fantastic skater, a great passer/playmaker, can score goals too but that isn't his strongest suit, and he is responsible/dependable in all 3 zones. Also, why would a rebuilding team go out of their way to spend a top 5 pick on someone they don't need? So, yes, need has everything to do with it. There is no reason to trade for a player you don't need.

That's a fair enough assessment, and to be honest, I was kind of hoping the Wings would get Moore at 9 during the draft. Pretty happy with Danielson regardless, but another Dylan Larkin-esque center would be kinda poetic. I just think that Raymond is one of the more underrated U23 players in the NHL, and it seems that a lot of posters here think their organization has 3 of him in their system. Success like his, Mercer, and Jarvis had is more of the exception than the rule, in my opinion.
Also to be fair, I didn't say that Chicago should trade for anybody. Building through the draft is most likely the best strategy, and it's paying dividends outside of Bedard already.

Yeah. My jaw was on the floor when Moore was still available at 19th OA. He is on the smaller side and isn't having the greatest freshman year, but I'm still hoping he can be a future Selke-type for us. I really think we have a few years before KD thinks about making any long term UFA signings or making any trades for RFA's. Though, this summer will be interesting, given that CHI's gap to the salary floor is even larger than last summer. I also don't know if they can get away with another tank year. I think there needs to be some progress or else CHI fans and maybe even the players will start getting pretty angry. But, building through the draft seems like an important aspect of this rebuild to CHI brass. So, the players and fans might just have to deal with it. Personally, I have fully bought in and I am fine with getting as many high picks as possible before these kids start joining the NHL ranks and the team starts improving organically. I just don't know how they get to the salary floor without some massive overpayments on short term deals. Plus, they gotta be eyeballing at least one or two of the next couple summers UFA classes.

Also, yeah, Raymond is underrated. But I also don't see DET moving him at all. So, that is part of why I don't engage even the most vague notions of acquiring him. Teams like NJD and CAR I could see moving some of their young players for depth and picks if they think those young players are gonna break the bank.

Moore dropping like he did was a shocker. I wouldn't be too worried about his D+1 production, could be a number of things. Could very well be like what happened with Jonathan Lekkerimaki. His D+1 was pretty unremarkable in the Allsvenskan, but this year, he's almost doubled his point total while playing in the SHL.
As far as what the Hawks do next season, they have almost too much flexibility. $52M for 17 roster spots is just insane. Davidson may have to overpay a few guys on short term just to get to the floor, or pick up a few bad contracts for more picks. Can't say I have a finger on the pulse of the Hawks fandom, but having Bedard ripping up the league should placate things for a couple seasons, right?

As far as Raymond, Detroit would have to be full firesale before considering moving him. Kid took a huge step so far this season, and is by far the best young forward on the team. I agree though, the notion of trading for him just doesn't make sense from either side.

Yeah. Idk. Some fans complain and some are on board with being patient. I think some of the CHI beat writers make a bigger deal out of poor performances because, well, that's their job and there isn't currently a whole lot to write about unless they are willing to dig deeper, which most of them don't seem to be. Everything I see seems to be very surface level and reactionary, none of them seem to actually watch juniors or college prospects. None of them seem very interested in profiling draft eligible players, and/or speculating on what they are trying to build/what the finished product could look like/etc.

Personally, I am on board with the patient approach. I am in no rush for any results. I fully realize how long this is going to take if they are going to do it right, and I am very intrigued by scouting, development, and the entire rebuild process, really. In discussions, people are always putting deadlines on things where there doesn't need to be. Like "oh, they gotta be better this year" or "they gotta be better next year", "there needs to be tangible steps taken", etc. Players take time, and we can't rush this. Plus, I don't want some late 20's dude getting overpaid because they had a really good season and then their contract becoming a boat anchor when we are actually ready to start competing again because their career is winding down.

Something similar is happening in Detroit, I think. Both teams have been bad for awhile, but recently went through a regime change after starting a rebuild way too late. Parts of the fanbase could be a bit restless, but it's not like either team will suddenly be good overnight. Beat writers might just be looking for clicks.

Exactly. They're looking for clicks. Which is fine, it's their job. But there are other ways to generate interesting stories, if you can dig a little deeper. Although, hoping for a larger demographic of our fanbases to take interest in prospects, development, and intricate details of the game might be more ambitious than it is realistic. haha

If you'll excuse my tinfoil hat for a second, that could be why legacy sports media sources are on the downward spiral. There's so many podcasts, independent people, and even organizations like the Athletic covering advanced theories, statistics, prospects and development, It's impossible to cover half of it. Even Youtubers like The Hockey Guy and Hockey Psychology do a better job covering the sport than the usual beat writers.

Haha. I mean... I wouldn't call that a "tinfoil hat theory." It sounds pretty legit to me. Among other things, It's this whole "Influencer" culture infiltrating every aspect of society, not just media. Although, media is probably the most visible because it's everywhere. You can see everything going downhill in quality from food to goods to services to skilled labor (or should I say unskilled). There's good stuff out there too, but everything is so oversaturated with millions of people trying to do the same things. Most of them can sell themselves all day long, but they aren't actually capable of doing those things. Everything is a sales pitch now.

So, yeah, they are spiraling. Even organizations like The Athletic should be feeling the pressure. The New York Times won't hesitate for a second to let the athletic go under and write it off on their taxes, if subscriptions fall below a certain threshold. Which I predict is probably going to happen in the next year or so. They already did all those layoffs last year, subscription prices are going up, quality is going down, and consumers barely have money to eat, let alone pay for a subscription to the athletic. It's not crazy, or a conspiracy theory, if you pay attention, it's just obvious that things are not ok.

lol. Can I take my tinfoil hat off now before I have a stroke?

Sad part is, that's all entirely reasonable and makes a lot of sense. Higher cost for lower quality product is kind of the name of the game now, and inflation has everybody more broke than ever. Add that into everything being bought out by larger corporations, I can't remember exactly where, but I had heard advertising revenue was somewhere around half of where it was about a year ago, which would support the push for subscription services. Add all these factors together, and you have a downward spiral for all these companies.
"May you live in interesting times" combined with a Monkey's Paw. If you start to smell toast, definitely lose the tinfoil hat lol

And it goes WAY beyond media. If you would talk about any of the effects of capitalism 10, 20, or 30 years ago, people would act like you're crazy. Funny how widely accepted and mundane issues like these have become. Now that it is too late to reverse most of the causes, of course.