Who am in to tell you what to do with your time, but I think it’s lost and wasted on this guy

You can put a ton of thought and effort in to your posts and replies and to me, this guy clearly doesn’t care or read what you have to say, he’s just waiting to repeat his same talking points and puke out his stubborn closed minded opinions.

You do what you want, but as a friend, I think you can find and would be better served talking to ppl who actually respect and value what you have to say. All the Best!

I've definitely wasted a lot of time on here in general and on guys who are stubborn, but I can't help it once I start.

I think dgibb10 has some fair criticisms but a lot of times CapFriendly users are too rigid in their thinking and don't consider the different possibilities especially when it seems that the OP didn't put thought in their post. It's obvious that you put a lot of thought into this, but considering how frequent it is for people to use the sign & trade to net ridiculous returns or overvalue their players (your injured Eichel and Lindholm comparison probably didn't help), it's very easy for someone to think that you are doing that. Always good to take a step back though and listen to what the other person is saying, really helps to read. Definitely difficult to have a good conversation when the other post isn't being read.

I will say this though, I think you are right that Lindholm is better than Horvat, but you do need to consider that Horvat got a return and contract that matched his hot performance with the Canucks last season, So, that's probably more than fair for Lindholm.

Who am in to tell you what to do with your time, but I think it’s lost and wasted on this guy

You can put a ton of thought and effort in to your posts and replies and to me, this guy clearly doesn’t care or read what you have to say, he’s just waiting to repeat his same talking points and puke out his stubborn closed minded opinions.

You do what you want, but as a friend, I think you can find and would be better served talking to ppl who actually respect and value what you have to say. All the Best!

I've definitely wasted a lot of time on here in general and on guys who are stubborn, but I can't help it once I start.

I think dgibb10 has some fair criticisms but a lot of times CapFriendly users are too rigid in their thinking and don't consider the different possibilities especially when it seems that the OP didn't put thought in their post. It's obvious that you put a lot of thought into this, but considering how frequent it is for people to use the sign & trade to net ridiculous returns or overvalue their players (your injured Eichel and Lindholm comparison probably didn't help), it's very easy for someone to think that you are doing that. Always good to take a step back though and listen to what the other person is saying, really helps to read. Definitely difficult to have a good conversation when the other post isn't being read.

I will say this though, I think you are right that Lindholm is better than Horvat, but you do need to consider that Horvat got a return and contract that matched his hot performance with the Canucks last season, So, that's probably more than fair for Lindholm.

I don’t see the demand for Hanafin as being that high. Who do you see involved and interested in an offensive focused LHD rental at a price much more than a 1st+depth prospect?

NJD in, maybe AZ but they’ll stop a tier below the Chych price, maybe van but that’s in the division. Dallas maybe?

I realize Sign & Trades are rare, but he came across both condescending and closed minded and they aren’t unrealistic, nor impossible

I have to imagine Agents are constantly talking to Teams on the sidelines, so even if the deal isn’t done ahead of time, they know what it’ll be upon arrival

In any event, I stand by my Eichel comparison, because while Eichel is the Better Play Driver, he isn’t as good Defensively and Lindholm has proven he can be a 1.00PPG 40 Goal Scorer too, he’ll be cheaper and I don’t believe Eichel is really that “Elite”. He’s no better than Lindholm AFAIC

We’ll see what happens, the exercise was more about letting others know who’s actually available, what I feel the fair comparables are and what it might look like to Trade for under performing players to still compete while stocking the cupboards with Picks & Prospects at the same time

Eichel has become elite defensively supposedly under Cassidy, but that's not really relevant. The fact is that elite offense is valued a whole lot more than elite defense, and I would confidently say that every exec in the League would think that Eichel (healthy) at the time of his trade is far more valuable than Lindholm has ever been.

I realize Sign & Trades are rare, but he came across both condescending and closed minded and they aren’t unrealistic, nor impossible

I have to imagine Agents are constantly talking to Teams on the sidelines, so even if the deal isn’t done ahead of time, they know what it’ll be upon arrival

In any event, I stand by my Eichel comparison, because while Eichel is the Better Play Driver, he isn’t as good Defensively and Lindholm has proven he can be a 1.00PPG 40 Goal Scorer too, he’ll be cheaper and I don’t believe Eichel is really that “Elite”. He’s no better than Lindholm AFAIC

We’ll see what happens, the exercise was more about letting others know who’s actually available, what I feel the fair comparables are and what it might look like to Trade for under performing players to still compete while stocking the cupboards with Picks & Prospects at the same time

I realize Sign & Trades are rare, but he came across both condescending and closed minded and they aren’t unrealistic, nor impossible

I have to imagine Agents are constantly talking to Teams on the sidelines, so even if the deal isn’t done ahead of time, they know what it’ll be upon arrival

In any event, I stand by my Eichel comparison, because while Eichel is the Better Play Driver, he isn’t as good Defensively and Lindholm has proven he can be a 1.00PPG 40 Goal Scorer too, he’ll be cheaper and I don’t believe Eichel is really that “Elite”. He’s no better than Lindholm AFAIC

We’ll see what happens, the exercise was more about letting others know who’s actually available, what I feel the fair comparables are and what it might look like to Trade for under performing players to still compete while stocking the cupboards with Picks & Prospects at the same time

That doesn’t make any sense dude. Eichel WASN’T Healthy at the time of his Trade…. He doesn’t even Kill Penalties on a regular basis 🤦‍♂️

Lindholm’s Shot% as a Flame is 15% and his FO% is 53% Eichel’s Shot% is 10.7% and his FO% is only 44.5%

Lindholm has been Nominted for the Selke 4x Times and almost/should have Won it!

Let’s see, Eichel, Eichel, Eichel……. 🤔 Nothing

Believe whatever you want man, but Eichel IS NOT Elite, Not Offensively, Not Defensively, NOT AT ALL. And he’s definitely not much, if any, better than Lindholm

End of Story

Eichel had a top 8 hart finish. He was viewed as an elite piece. Even coming up as a prospect he was viewed that way. He was viewed as a guy with top 5-10 C upside when traded and is certainly a top 15 C now

Lindholm was a 0.5ppg 3C in Carolina, got close to a PPG player as the passenger with Tkachuk/monahan and Gaudreau, and is back to a 0.75 ppg guy now. Probably a top 30C in the league but just not viewed in the stratosphere that Eichel was.

You can **** on Eichel all you want, I wouldn’t have valued him that high either, but that’s what he was viewed as. And he had a ton of term. It won vegas a cup

I know he wasn't healthy, but you are essentially saying that Eichel and Lindholm are comparables now. I'm saying even if that is true, that Eichel at the time of his trade, if healthy he would be more valuable than Lindholm at any point of his career because he was considered to be a young elite C on a terrible team. From 2015-2020 (2019-20 season), he was 27th in total goals and 24th in total points, tied for 20th in PPG rate at 0.95. So, even at his peak, Lindholm wouldn't return the same as a healthy 24 or 25 yo Eichel, even if we ignore things like age and term.

I'm not denying that Eichel now is not as good as he was perceived to be back then, although that's starting to change, but he's still seen as better than Lindholm even if he's not elite in your eyes or not much better than Lindholm. It's irrelevant though to how much Lindholm would return now in a trade, so no point in discussing this.

I’m actually getting mad now. Eichel isn’t really any better than Lindholm now other than his Play Driving ability, but more importantly we’re using his Trade as a comparable

Honestly I’m not even gonna finish this. It’s ridiculous to consider Eichel Elite. I’m not sure what you guys are on, if you’re related to him or if you have hard ons for him, but he ain’t that great. Period. Finis. End of Story. Case Closed

I really am disgusted by your guys’s infatuation with a player that really isn’t close to being Amazing. McDavid is Amazing, Eichel’s Very Good. Eichel never lived up or performed to his Hype

If you want, re-read the edited version. I think I expressed what I was trying to say better.

Personally, I was never really a big fan of Eichel's game other than his shot. That being said it doesn't matter how amazing we think he is or not, his value is/was dictated by what the execs think and it was obviously very high or there would have been no hype around him back then.

Sign and trades “can” happen, but it’s very unrealistic for a UFA and is unlikely to significantly boost value. If anything letting extension talks happen may only drive away potential suitors.

There’s just not the benefit in terms of value gain for a team to let a player who they don’t control talk with another team about a contract.

I honestly don’t care man. I’m tired and frustrated that I’m being misinterpreted or that we/you people can’t get our heads wrapped around Eichel’s value being lower because he wasn’t healthy at the time he was traded this reducing his value and therefore why a healthy Lindholm, who’s just as good and only a few years older but more importantly is reliable and healthy, would go for between Horvat and an injured, who know what’s the future holds for, Eichel who in the end is barely worth $10mil/yr and isn’t and won’t ever be Elite

I love you man, but if you keep pushing or over valuing Eichel or pushing some 🐮 💩 that he’s somehow Elite, I’m sorry, but I’m not gonna like it or be as impressed with you

But you believe what you want and you absolutely should, but I’m done with this conversation. I’m very mad now 😡

Let's just leave it at that then, but for the record, I know you were saying that Eichel was discounted.

Just like you don’t want to give up Prospects/Players and would prefer to Trade Picks/Unknowns, I’d like the opposite, besides how do you fit Tanev’s $2.25mil under the cap or am I not supposed to concern myself with that part, that’d be TOR’s problem and they’ll handle that themselves!?