Philly rumors reported from the offseason

Forums/Armchair-GM

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Created by: Alfie4PrimeMinister

Team: 2023-24 Ottawa Senators

Initial Creation Date: Dec. 4, 2023

Published: Dec. 5, 2023

Salary Cap Mode: Basic

Description

Okay so Philly fans idk if a first and a fourth cuts it for all that retained salary including Kubaliks money too. I'm still pretty new to this and don't fully understand the value of picks, especially as they relate to specific teams. Swap that last pick for whatever makes the most sense, I'm just doing this for fun.

Anyways, JBD is added as a fixer-upper RD for you guys to potentially replace some of Walker's minutes. Hopefully he just needs a change of scenery since he was a former first-rounder that already passed through waivers once this year. It's really just a throw-in to the trade, not supposed to add value, and has no real risk for Philly.

Walker and Frost are your top trade rumors right now. Walker would have to be allowed by Philly to talk with the team first and come with an extension in place starting next year. I'm thinking probably a 3x3 would do it. He would be perfect on the bottom pairing, keeping Hammer a scratch most night like he should be.

Ottawa would get two years of Frost (with retention) as a bottom 6 centre. Last year, he scored 19-27-46 in 81 in that same role. The reason he's important is because he will fill the void for Pinto until he returns so we can start winning some damn games-- Chartier at 3C is a joke and this season cannot be completely given up on. Even if he doesn't play Torts style hockey and is a healthy scratch most nights for him, Frost actually has a bit of offensive game at just 24 y/o. Plus, I'm a believer you cannot have too many centres on your team.

Sorry about the book here. If you actually read this, you should shoot me your constructive thoughts. Thanks guys!

Free Agent Signings

RFA		YEARS	CAP HIT
Pinto, Shane		1	$874,125

Trades

OTT

Frost, Morgan ($1,050,000 retained)
Walker, Sean ($1,325,000 retained)

PHI

Bernard-Docker, Jacob
Kubalik, Dominik
2024 1st round pick (OTT)
2024 4th round pick (OTT)

Buyouts

Bobby Ryan: $1,833,333
Colin White: $875,000
Michael Del Zotto: $750,000

Retained Salary Transactions

Matt Murray: $1,562,500 (25%)

Draft	Round 1	Round 2	Round 3	Round 4	Round 5	Round 6	Round 7
2024
2025
2026

ROSTER

LONG-TERM OUTLOOK

EMBED

TEXT-EMBED

ROSTER SIZE	SALARY CAP	CAP HIT	OVERAGES	BONUSES	CAP SPACE
22	$83,500,000	$80,911,505	$0	$1,850,000	$2,588,495

Left Wing	Centre	Right Wing
Tkachuk, Brady $8,205,714$8,205,714 LW UFA - 5	Stützle, Tim $8,350,000$8,350,000 C UFA - 8	Giroux, Claude $6,500,000$6,500,000 RW, C NMC UFA - 2
Joseph, Mathieu $2,950,000$2,950,000 LW, RW UFA - 3	Norris, Joshua $7,950,000$7,950,000 C UFA - 7	Tarasenko, Vladimir $2,500,000$2,500,000 RW NTC UFA - 1
Greig, Ridly $863,333$863,333 C, LW RFA - 2	Frost, Morgan $1,050,000$1,050,000 C RFA - 2	Batherson, Drake $4,975,000$4,975,000 RW, LW UFA - 4
Kelly, Parker $762,500$762,500 LW RFA - 1	Chartier, Rourke $775,000$775,000 C UFA - 1	Kastelic, Mark $835,000$835,000 C, RW RFA - 2
	Pinto, Shane $874,125$874,125 C RFA - 1

Left Defense	Right Defense	Goaltender
Chychrun, Jakob $4,600,000$4,600,000 LD/RD M-NTC UFA - 2	Sanderson, Jake $925,000$925,000 ($1,850,000$2M) LD UFA - 1	Korpisalo, Joonas $4,000,000$4,000,000 G M-NTC UFA - 5
Chabot, Thomas $8,000,000$8,000,000 LD UFA - 5	Zub, Artem $4,600,000$4,600,000 RD M-NTC UFA - 4	Forsberg, Anton $2,750,000$2,750,000 G UFA - 2
Brännström, Erik $2,000,000$2,000,000 LD/RD, LW RFA - 1	Walker, Sean $1,325,000$1,325,000 LD/RD UFA - 1
	Hamonic, Travis $1,100,000$1,100,000 RD NMC UFA - 2

Scratches	Injured Reserve (IR)	Long Term IR (LTIR)
		Boucher, Tyler $863,333$863,333 ($500,000$500K) RW RFA - 3

Dec. 5, 2023 at 7:40 a.m.

athrin

Joined: May 2017

Posts: 5,963

Likes: 1,564

OTT has zero interest in either of those players

Dec. 5, 2023 at 8:45 a.m.

Mike7856

Joined: Jun. 2017

Posts: 1,116

Likes: 773

Don’t mind Walker and he shouldn’t be too expensive as a rental bottom pair D, not sure on Frost though. Think a winger would work better for Ottawa, maybe a Farabee? Or go all in on TK but would have to add a bit to the offer for that

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Dec. 5, 2023 at 8:55 a.m.

Alfie4PrimeMinister

Thread Starter

Joined: Dec. 2023

Posts: 24

Likes: 6

Quoting: athrin

OTT has zero interest in either of those players

Zero? A frost and pinto swap has been well reported and the sens have been calling on Walker since he was on the block in LA. He's a RD, they've needed one for a while now. Not easy to do ≠ zero interest,

Dec. 5, 2023 at 8:58 a.m.

Alfie4PrimeMinister

Thread Starter

Joined: Dec. 2023

Posts: 24

Likes: 6

Quoting: Mike7856

I agree the fit would be much better I just don't think the Flyers will be sellers just for the sake of it. Farabee is of value to them, and they're actually winning with him in the lineup, unlike frost who seems to need a change in scenery.

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Dec. 5, 2023 at 9:58 a.m.

SensFanFromTO

Joined: May 2021

Posts: 284

Likes: 90

Sorry, Pierre Dorion is no longer the GM.

Dec. 5, 2023 at 10:59 a.m.

Hammerwise

Joined: Aug. 2018

Posts: 6,335

Likes: 2,234

Not sure it moves the needle for PHI.

Kubalik is an expiring UFA that theyd only want to move on somewhere else, why doesn;t OTT do that and give PHI the return.
JBD was free on waivers, with PHI high on the claim list

Walker at 50% is probably worth at least a 3rd and 4th, and more likely a bit more, and as you've said with frost, theres alot of talent there and one year of steady play on a bad offensive team, he got 46 pts, so PHI adding retention (effectively using all 3 of their spots) probably involves better players from OTT

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Dec. 5, 2023 at 11:27 a.m.

Fergy22

Joined: May 2018

Posts: 786

Likes: 326

Ottawa needs bottom 6 veteran forwards who play well in all 3 zones. I don’t get to see Philly play much but there has to be a reason Tortorella does not lean on Frost ….work ethic, grit , defensive responsibility?
Ottawa has the same D needs as almost every other team , a RHD , Walker ticks that box. He will be in demand.

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Dec. 5, 2023 at 6:25 p.m.

Xspyrit

Joined: Jul. 2016

Posts: 10,509

Likes: 3,722

Quoting: Alfie4PrimeMinister

It was also "reported" that we were going to trade a 1st WITH Joseph to move his contract. It was also reported that Scott freaking Laughton was worth a 1st++

Don't mind this stuff. No way anyone with a hockey brain would trade Pinto for Frost.

Walker could make sense but I'd prefer someone with term and more defensive

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Dec. 5, 2023 at 6:33 p.m.

Xspyrit

Joined: Jul. 2016

Posts: 10,509

Likes: 3,722

Quoting: Hammerwise

Walker is UFA too, but agree with Kubalik, they'd just flip him right away (so a 3-teams trade?)

JBD value in "waivers season" and now is completely different. No reason to give him away. He's a defensive RHD, just turned 23, is cheap for 2 years and has shown really good things this season. It was stupid to waive him in the first place (Dorion) but luckily no one claimed him

Also agreed with the retention. IMO, no retention spot should be used, it should be Kubalik + Brannstrom for Frost + Walker. Ottawa would add a pick but I see a 2nd at most.

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Dec. 5, 2023 at 9:54 p.m.

#10

Alfie4PrimeMinister

Thread Starter

Joined: Dec. 2023

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Edited Dec. 5, 2023 at 10:18 p.m.

Quoting: Xspyrit

Walker is UFA after the end of the season, his value as a rental is not much more than Kubalik so let's say Kubalik + 4th

So that would mean 1st + JBD for Morgan Frost...

Problem is that 2024 1st is unknown and could land just about anywhere. It would need to be Boston's 1st and Walker would need to come with a reasonable extension for me to accept

But seriously, we don't really need Frost that much (once both Pinto and Greig are in the lineup, plus there's Jarventie and Ostapchuk developing in the AHL)

It was also "reported" that we were going to trade a 1st WITH Joseph to move his contract. It was also reported that Scott freaking Laughton was worth a 1st++

Don't mind this stuff. No way anyone with a hockey brain would trade Pinto for Frost.

Walker could make sense but I'd prefer someone with term and more defensive

Well said, I agree with most things here. But my idea was the first was due to all that retained salary, which Philly is one of the few teams in the NHL that could actually afford. Plus, everybody knows walker will be in high demand at the TDL, so if he were to come here earlier with an extension his price will be high too. I tossed up the idea of Branny to avoid a retention spot but I'm not sure he would be a fit there at all (they have a similar small guy in Mete bouncing up and down between the farm already). And hey if JBD is avoidable that would be even better.

Also Frost was like a 17th overall in his draft. He's one of the few guys with upside this time of year that is actually known to be on the trading block. You can't really hit every box with these trades or else they wouldn't be dealt in the first place. Frost could help the team in the very short term, letting those guys you mentioned develop even longer which never hurts.

I look at a trade right now as a way to help save the season before Pinto returns and make the post for once. And if Pinto does in fact take his QO, and both those Philly salaries are retained at 50%, you can see that the dollars work out to have an extra FWD and D every night. A lot of ifs, but it makes the teams chances of finally making it into the first round better.

Dec. 5, 2023 at 10:13 p.m.

#11

Alfie4PrimeMinister

Thread Starter

Joined: Dec. 2023

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Quoting: Fergy22

I feel that the Flyers have a surprisingly deep forward core when you really start to look at it. Plus with Torts I'm sure its not hard to lose his trust, I couldn't imagine the current sens roster playing for him, our whole bench would be watching from the presser lol.

Frost is a guy known to be on the block that would be a decent fit with our style. I liked him a lot in his draft year, good Canadian kid. Currently listed 6ft 195lbs. Cherry picking some stats here, but he's a plus 2 in 15 games this season.

But I whole heartedly agree with you in that Ottawa needs another Giroux type, a vet who plays all 3 zones. I would love to hear of some potential guys that teams are known to be taking calls on.

Dec. 6, 2023 at 2:32 p.m.

#12

Xspyrit

Joined: Jul. 2016

Posts: 10,509

Likes: 3,722

Quoting: Alfie4PrimeMinister

Well said, I agree with most things here. But my idea was the first was due to all that retained salary, which Philly is one of the few teams in the NHL that could actually afford. Plus, everybody knows walker will be in high demand at the TDL, so if he were to come here earlier with an extension his price will be high too. I tossed up the idea of Branny to avoid a retention spot but I'm not sure he would be a fit there at all (they have a similar small guy in Mete bouncing up and down between the farm already). And hey if JBD is avoidable that would be even better.

Also Frost was like a 17th overall in his draft. He's one of the few guys with upside this time of year that is actually known to be on the trading block. You can't really hit every box with these trades or else they wouldn't be dealt in the first place. Frost could help the team in the very short term, letting those guys you mentioned develop even longer which never hurts.

I look at a trade right now as a way to help save the season before Pinto returns and make the post for once. And if Pinto does in fact take his QO, and both those Philly salaries are retained at 50%, you can see that the dollars work out to have an extra FWD and D every night. A lot of ifs, but it makes the teams chances of finally making it into the first round better.

Are you comparing Brannstrom and Mete? Mete had a decent start in Montreal but as of now, Brannstrom is much much better...

Frost being 17th OA doesn't mean anything today. Draft position only last the first few years for a prospect then it's out of the door completely

All that said, assuming Walker had a reasonable extension, the trade would be fine but :

- not spending the Sens 1st on Frost and/or Walker...
- no point trading JBD
- We don't really need Frost. Pinto will play in 20 games by the way

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Dec. 8, 2023 at 11:23 a.m.

#13

Alfie4PrimeMinister

Thread Starter

Joined: Dec. 2023

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Likes: 6

Quoting: Xspyrit

Yeah hear me out here man. The report of Joseph and a first would have been what Philly was asking for, clearly no hockey mind worth their salt would do that. BUT it shows the intentions of the team their trading with. Reports of a Pinto for Frost swap just goes to show who is on the trading block for that team. I'm aware that nobody would make that swap nor should they. However in both situation I do mind these reports because they're pretty indicative-- to all of us who are not hockey trade insiders-- how these calls are going.

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Dec. 8, 2023 at 11:31 a.m.

#14

Alfie4PrimeMinister

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Quoting: Xspyrit

First off, JBD was drafted in the first round just one year later after Frost and you can bet that is the only thing keeping him in the lineup (he just scored his first ever last night, albeit a pretty nice one). It doesn't go out the door *completely*.

Secondly, I'm not sure where you lie on the Branny fandom spectrum but statistically Branny is marginally better than Mete while maybe being even smaller physically. I stand by that being a decent comparison to make my point. They need to move him before his value (based completely on the hope that in a top 4 role / PP time he will get points) hits zero. The thing is the fit has to be right, not every team would take calls on him, like I'm guessing torts wouldn't throw him in his lineup.

Dec. 9, 2023 at 12:24 p.m.

#15

Xspyrit

Joined: Jul. 2016

Posts: 10,509

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Quoting: Alfie4PrimeMinister

JBD's value is not about the goals he scored or the points he gets... He's playing decent defensive hockey and a lot people are talking positively about the strides he made this season, despite playing with Holden who had to retire because he declined too much

I think the difference in how we evaluate players is you seem to rely on raw points. My analysis go much much deeper than that. I don't know if you can't see this below but Brannstrom literally crushed his 3rd pairing role last season

1687090656435-png.718991

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