Aug. 7, 2018
Toronto Maple Leafs
2nd Favourite Team
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<div class="quote"><div class="quote_t">Quoting: <b>python3504</b></div><div>well who knows how he develops over the off season, he has 8 gp and 2 points averaging only 7-8 min a game. just because he didnt succeed in NJ doesnt mean he never will, look at trevor moore he didnt do anything great until his 4/5 season.</div></div>
Hes been with toronto 3 yrs, with small callups and limited minutes and 2 yrs in NJ, you really think hes going to evolve into something he isn;t? Almost every Marlie has been called up and the list of guys who've had a longer cup of coffeee in the nhl with the leafs is massive (Malgin, Holmberg, Clifford, Lehtonen, McMann, etc....).
You really think hes a NHLer, when for 5 seasons he's shown/management/coaching has judged hes not?
<div class="quote"><div class="quote_t">Quoting: <b>Saskleaf</b></div><div>Lol, maybe they’re not getting Timo Meier, but they are AT LEAST spending a second round pick on someone. My bet is they spend a first.</div></div>
I dont think Dubas has a long lease on life after so many 1st round exits, and having 2 of their top 4 forwards hitting UFA in 2 yrs, and half the defense hitting mid 30s or leaving (Muzzin, Giordano, Holl, Benn, Brodie-only 31), I think hes almost got to make a medium-big move. They do have to advance at least one round this year to save dubas and keefes jobs, as its almost a sin to think that you'll have to debate moving one of the expiring big 3 at the 23-24 TDL without any of them ever having a real playoff run.
He will get a top 2 line LW or a above average 3rd liner to improve the depth, and due to the plethora of defensive injuries, it would be prudent to probably add an above average 3rd pair/7th who is more of a stay at home/crease clearer.
And due to this short leash, and the limited value amongst the Leaf depth players to the market, (Is Holl/kerfoot's value in trade greater than their value to the Leafs in the cup run? No. Do Gaudette, Engvall, Simmonds, mete, benn, ZAR, etc... have much value in trade? No) I think any of the Leafs picks and every prospect might be up for conversation
Probably the 1st and 3rd deals are weak.
Hollowell isnt really a prospect or an NHLer, so I don;t think he carries much, if any, value. And the 4th is TWO drafts away. VAN will get better offers easily
Kerfoot is a cap dump to SJS. Robertson is on his 2nd disapointing season (non-production and injuries), so neither of those 2 pieces carry much value and collectively probably offset as ZERO. So its Sandin and a late in the round 1st for Meier and a 2nd in 2024, which is probably a weak offer for the "likely premiere" TDL acquisition. (Personally, TOR should look at say a Zucker at 50%, if available, or a JVR at 50% for alot less in cost. Maybe a TOR 3rd in 2023 and 2nd in 2024).
As for Lafferty, I dont think he brings more than gaudette, holmberg, engvall to make him worth a 3rd.
With the failure of Robertson this year, Amirov's likely done, trading tons of picks/high-highish midlevel prospects is probably not what TOR should be doing. Sandin might only be still getting 16 minutes a game, but behind he, liljegren and timmins, theres really only Niemala in the youth dept/pipeline on defense who look to be NHLers, (the rest are pretty weak). And with big tickets like matthews, marner, nylander, liljegren, etc... hitting the market in 2 yrs, alot of ELC youngsters need to be ready to go, or else theres no point in resigning those guys
<div class="quote"><div class="quote_t">Quoting: <b>frgsn</b></div><div>Thanks for the detailed response.
I was under the impression that the Flyers may be looking to move on from Provorov, so a trade for Sandin could make sense for them. Hirvonen wouldn't have to be the add on piece either, could be another asset with similar value. I just think that Sandin and a 1st are a strong foundation for a fair trade.</div></div>
Maybe, but Sandin is playing 16 minutes a game in his 4th pro season (even with Left defenders Reilly, Muzzin missing alot of time), so its a leap to think that Sandin is a Provorov replacement, (who has played 19+ since his draft yr) and if Provorov goes, its probably York at 1LD, Sanheim at 2LD, so Sandin is likely still 3LD in that scenario.
Its also based on now, and Koneckny is at an apex of value, and PHI has no need/want to trade him, so a buyer has no leverage to ask for a "fair trade". Hes 25 yrs old, signed cheaply for 3 seasons, scoring at a ppg, on a team that cant score and is missing 2 of its top 6 forwards. So firstly, PHI would need HUGE over payment and SECONDLY they'd want what they want/need, not just what Leafs offer.
For all the projections, a prospect or a pick is just a prospect until/IF he develops, Robertson/Robbie Earl/Carlo Cola being perfect examples, so Hirvonen/Niemala/Knies MIGHT be a Koneckny, they might be better, but they also might never be a Koneckny, especially one as good as hes playing right now. So the idea of PHI trading a great contract of a young (and playing amazing) guy for futures, would need alot of futures.
PHI is playing a ton of young guys and have a strong prospect pipeline, so while theyd be crazy not to add to it, theyd also have to be WOWed to trade a 25 yr old playing at a ppg, when hes exactly the type you build a team with (not around, but with).
Better Leafs offer than most on Koneckny...not sure its what they want/need though. LD with Provorov, Sanheim, York, Andrae, Zamula in system makes Sandin's value to PHI lesser (and probably 3LD on the current team) and Hirvonen, a LW, to a team that has currently has Tippett, Allison, Farabee, Atkinson, deslauriers, laughton, cates all playing wing with Bobby Brink, Foerster, Gautheir on the way, probably doesn;t crave Hirvonen as much as a RD Niemala.
Chicago isnt going to retain 2 mil for 3 yrs, even though the offer is good. Theyd have to have the belief that Voit and Niemala are bluechips.
And ARZ probably takes Steeves or the 3rd for expiring UFA Bjugstad, both is more than hes worth
But better value than most offers.