This is the thing that's hard to convey to people.

We do NOT need salary cap flexibility by moving Parayko. It actually gives us less flexibility. Not only are we then needing to find a Defenseman who can play defensive zone draws strictly in matchup situations, we are also needing one that is comfortable doing so 25+ minutes a night. That's not asked of anyone in the league aside from Parayko, and in all reality, nobody could thrive under those circumstances. So what we then would have to do is find a 3rd pairing guy and get him and his partner hammered in for 20+ minutes a night, which effectively makes us 10 times worse.

What we need to do is gain cap flexibility by trading an expendable guy like Krug/Leddy/Faulk. Not the only pillar on defense we have. Pick 25 and Niemela isn't really worth the headache of trying to replace what probably cannot be replaced. 4-5 years down the road sure this trade will make things better for us. But it essentially puts us in a long term rebuild, which Armstrong has displayed reluctance (thus far) to do.

If tj brodie wasnt a leaf putting up numbers like he is, i wouldn't trade for him either, and he doesnt have a massive awful contract.
As far as parayko 'forcing' players to skate and skate, uh, he isnt doing that either because they still get massive amounts of shots through. If he blocks 2 out of every 6 shots he still lets 4 through (and he isnt blocking 1/3rd of the shots he faces).
The only way to look at this is that he is getting burried and he is incapable of digging himself out and he has been getting progressivly worse.
Throw in the fact that he's past prime age and by all accounts will only get worse, no he wont be fine.
Brodie is 3 years older and declining, so what is parayko gonna look like then?
Like, the leafs dont have a defensive structure or guy who can carry him so why would he look good there? Why would the leafs take on such a massive risky contract for a guy who cant even carry their 2nd pairing?

I agree on Brodie looking like he's slipping a bit...but I disagree that the ask out of Toronto is that much different that what the current ask is from him out of St. Louis. Both clubs basically need him to be the #1 RHD, playing in critical situations. We know Brodie can (mostly) manage that assignment...I'm just not sure how much of an upgrade Parayko would be, if any...so much as how much more he would bolster the d-core in addition to Brodie. Removing Brodie and adding Parayko just isn't a big of enough impact on this d-core.

For me...and it's just one man's opinion...the cap space and assets do not justify the marginal upgrade and risk when you could potentially look at a Tanev rental as fitting the cap situation better and adding without subtracting. Adding someone at the top and slotting everyone else down makes the whole stronger vs swapping our current guy at the top for another guy at the top.

Your last sentence kind of nails it. This type of trade is only done if Blues are going full re-build. I don't think the suggested offer is bad...but only if that's the direction the Blues are headed...otherwise I agree, absolutely no incentive to move him

To be perfectly objective here, I would love this deal for the Leafs, Colton Parayko is a incredibly solid defensive defensemen with the mobility of a forward, is he what he was when he was 26-27, no but that doesn’t mean he isn’t a premier talent on the right side. If charts mattered Schenn would’ve been awful for us & Lybushkin would be making 9 x 8, Yes 6.5 x 6 years is likely not gonna end as good as it starts but take into consideration the cap rises that are projected, they aren’t minor, they are major & adding a guy like Parayko immediately helps the team massively & adds so much more ability on the other side of the puck, Parayko can & will chip in offensively though not as much as Mo but that’s fine, if the Leafs could have a D-core like

Rielly-Parayko
McCabe-Liljegren
Benoit-Timmins

I see 0 problems why this anyone would call this a bad deal & not mutually beneficial for both teams only if St.Louis decides to go through a rebuild, that’s the only wild card here but with their drafting ability & really nice looking pool of prospects it’s a possible realm to explore for them especially with this draft which is loaded with defencemen to restock that area of their pool a use they are pretty much set everywhere else especially with Dvorsky & Snuggerud who look like Top 6 studs imo

The Blues would not even consider that garbage offer, and it's friggin wild you think they'd also add a 2nd. As for the usual "Parayko experts from Toronto" in here, as usual they haven't a clue what they're on about.

?? Doesn’t mean it’s enough value, Neimla is great but he’d fit much better in a Faulk package than a Parayko package. You can say all you want but the blues are one taking back Brodie as a cap dump. And giving up Parayko and a 2nd

Those 3 prospect don’t even come close to paying for any of that.

Oh sorry I don’t know you blind, my bad

He can dream all he wants because this offer might get you Faulk but certainly not Parayko

nah, my vision is fine, especially since every single stat lines up with what I see. It's wonderful to have confirmation just laying around.

Parayko currently ranks 34th among defensemen for TOI/GP at 23:15. By contrast Morgan Rielly is 9th at 24:59 and leads all defensemen with 21:41 in ES TOI/GP.

Your team needs to move on from the remnants of the core. It is aging out and Robert Thomas can't do everything. The Blues are now a team that no longer is a shoe in to make the playoffs year on year. This gives them three young players who will play for them within the year. Brodie is by no means the meat of the deal but needs to be included to make the numbers work from Toronto's end. No Brodie? No young guys. And you need those young guys more than you need Parayko.

Also keep in mind that next summer is going to feature a bumper crop of UFAs. Cap space is not a bad thing to have.

What can I say? I think you are under estimating the Leafs ability to play a disciplined defensive structure and I think you are under estimating Parayko's ability to fit into one. You're not going to agree with me. I can see that. It is what it is.

We can keep going back and forth on this but why bother? Neither of us is going to convince the other of anything.

Parayko is thrown out there nearly 70% of the time on d zone starts. Mind you in almost strictly matchup usage.

It’s not overly comparable. Nor should it be they’re different players and in much different circumstances.

By every account from the front office they are very happy with Paraykos play as recently as Armstrong’s presser yesterday.

I’m not entirely opposed to your argument of them needing to undergo a heavier turnover than expected. But that turnover has to start with the Krugs or Faulk, otherwise it’s not really worthwhile.

Parayko is the absolute pillar of our defense. He’s the only defenseman that can comfortably play in our own end, that’s including his partner who is completely in over his head.

Forgive me for being pessimistic in regards to those 3 prospects. But we’re currently going through the tollercosster of not overly impressive at anything defenseman who are average sized but produced at lower tiers or earlier in their careers.

Depth and more specifically, bottom end depth and youth isn’t our issue.

I don’t foresee any of those guys being short term or long term fixes for what we need.

And as much as guys like to complain about Paraykos contract. With the cap going up? What do you expect to happen to UFA contracts? 5.5-7 is going to be close to the going rate for 2nd pair defenseman.

This doesn’t even factor in adding a 2nd into the deal for no particular reason. But we move Parayko and I can assure you that 2nd is in the 30s. And it will for many more years to come.

I don't disagree that Faulk and Krug would also be a part of that turnover, likely Leddy too. And St. Louis would probably find takers for all of them somewhere. Just not Toronto. They aren't what the Leafs are looking for.

The 2nd is in there because you are getting three players that will play for you within the year, and not just a cup of coffee, and not garbage time. PLus the fact that the Leafs take the whole hit on the salary.

so a UFA, 2 4th liners and a B prospect for a D man signed long term and STL gets the right to add a second. Uh NO

You can see how that’s completely counterproductive then no? And how this trade isn’t appealing at all from a Blues fan point of view? We’re trading our only good defenseman at actual defense for a glut of players who could possibly be middle of the lineup players but not for certain (which mind you we have a boat load of those already) just because they’re younger. So we’re getting worse and attaching a high draft pick in order to do so.

I mean if you just watch him play and look to the stats you’d see your wrong but hey, if you wanna keep going down this route of being wrong be my guest

Bottom line: I think the Blues need to blow that team up. This is a team that is not a guarantee to make the playoffs year on year that is only getting older. I happen to think that Niemela is more than a middle of the lineup player and Holmberg while not a line driver, can be a complementary top 6 at the pro level. Abruzzese *could* get there as well, but it would be more of a surprise. You might not agree with the assessment of those players but I believe you are basing that assessment on second hand information and not the actual viewing of those players in games. I do not venture an opinion on a prospect unless I *have* watched them several times.

Niemela I see as another Faulk who has been a first pairing guy in the past. I compared Holmberg to a heavier Jarnkrok, but if you are not as familiar enough with him think Ivan Barbashev. I stand by those calls. Scouting reports that have not been updated since a player's draft year do not trump actually watching the players play.

I'd caution you not to make a call on a prospect you have not seen play. By your comment, it is obvious you have not.

You do realize the likelihood of 2 out of 3 becoming NHLers that play for more than 100 games is near 0% right? That’s just numbers.

I don’t disagree we should blow it up either. But I’m not nearly as close to pie in the sky as you are in regards to 3 prospects from one of the bottom rated systems panning out. I’m really not if they come into our system aside from Niemela who would have a fighting chance.

Prospects are fun. But I’m of the understanding that out of our loaded forward prospect pool: Dvorsky, Snuggerud, Stenberg, Bolduc, Dean, Neighbors has kind of graduated. In all reality it’s only likely 3 or so have a lasting impact of any kind. It’s all a numbers game. Each roster can only carry 12 dressed skaters.

But still I ask, why in the world would the Blues add a pick if they are blowing things up?

Yes we know. Current Marlie = Future HOF