Graves is negative value for us with a lot of terms
So the trade dies here
POJ has no value for us as well since we have a tons of LHD

Montreal says the difference between Monahan+Matheson vs Joseph+Graves is more than that.

Leafs dont want Karlsson lol.

Drop Grave and POJ add Pens 2025 1st or Yager and it's a deal

So the first two trades are about gaining resources for the future and the last trade is trading away resources for a rental and a defenseman who plays defense about as well as a block of wood?

Are you rebuilding or going all in?

So to you, Matheson (a guy with 2 goals and 9 points 5v5, with the worst corsi among MTL dmen, and who ranks 144th out of 167 NHL defenseman in expected goals against) and Monahan (4 goals, 11 assists 5v5, with the worst corsi among MTL forwards, an who ranks 257th out of 269 NHL forwards in expected goals against, and has a negative shooting talent above average) are worth 2 1st round picks?

Can you defend that position?

I think combined they aren't worth a single 1st.

Well, they both play on one of the worst and most injured teams in the NHL, we are missing 4 top 9 forwards from our roster. Monahan hasn't had the opportunity to play with actual top 6 quality wingers, he has been saddled with Anderson, Gallagher, Armia and Pearson, yet is still on pace for almost 50 points, all the while spending half his time starting in the defensive zone. If he had wingers like Ehlers and Vilardi he would most likely have double or triple the 5v5 points and be well over 40 points at this point in the season, unfortunately he doesn't get those quality wingers right now. BTW the Monahan is 42 in scoring (last I checked) amongst all centers while playing with those lesser quality wingers. So yeah his XGA isn't where it should or would be if he was on a better team but context is key when evaluating players, you should try understanding that.

Matheson is largely in the same boat, he gets to play with Savard, who even though he is a top 4 D man is not nearly a 1st pairing guy. Matheson is on pace for 60 points, are you seriously telling me that a 60 point D man on one of the worst PP and 5v5 teams in the league isn't worth a 1st+?! Like come on use your brain for just one second and pay attention to the context.

The context is most of their points are 5v4.

Monahan is on pace for 8 goals and 22 points 5v5
Matheson is on pace for 4 goals and 18 points 5v5

Their team is bad. I hear the same thing about Granlund. He is doing great on a bad sharks team. All he needs is a playoff calibre roster and... oh wait, he had that last year and sucked.

So yeah, they are on a bad team but two guys who combined are on pace for 40 points in the most abundant level of ice time they see, is not really worth a 1st, not to mention multiple 1sts.

Also, Monahan is ranked 211th out of 269 forwards with 400+ min in points scored at 5v5.

The context is Monahan hasn't been healthy or effective since 2018.

The context is Matheson has always been a poor defender and would be a nice 3rd pair / PP QB if he wasn't paid 5MM per.

LMAO, so you are trying to tell me that all games are won and lost at 5v5?! Tell me you know nothing about hockey, without saying you know nothing about hockey! Most games are won and lost on special teams, adding 2 of the top special teams players available at the deadline is worth its weight in gold

They aren’t good on the power play either they just get 4 minutes a night.

Montreals power play is 23rd in the league.

Montreal won't take back a LHD with term no matter what, we have way too many really good prospects waiting for a spot to open, and your offer simply isn't worth anything close to what MTL would need in order to move a top pair D

Well let's see...
9 of the top 15 teams in PP % made the playoffs last year (60%)

14 of the top 15 teams in even strength goals made the playoffs last year (93%)

10 of the top 15 teams in PP % made the playoffs two years ago (67%)

14 of the top 15 teams in even strength goals made the playoffs two years ago (93%)

Vegas won last year with the 5th best PP in the playoffs and the best 5v5.

Col was the best at both the year before.

So it seems teams winning the battle 5v5 has more of an impact that winning 5v4. Which makes sense since the average team had 400 minutes on the PP last year and 4,000 minutes at 5v5.

Now, I do understand what you're saying in that a time that represents 10% of the ice time makes up 20% of the goals (so it has a higher representation) but it is still only 20% of the goals. 75% are 5v5, which makes it much more important.

Matheson is the top pair dman on MTL. On a good team, he is a 3rd pair. Except he's paid like a 2nd pair. So...

Canucks cant afford Jake long term without loosing some key players for next year.I dont think we would do this.Its alot to give up.(hes 100%) worth it.but not a fit money wise.IMHO.

Sure

I'm just saying he is an oddity. A good PP QB who is paid like a 2nd pair guy but is really a 3rd pair guy.

They can but I don't know if they want to. They would have to trade Garland.

I just didn't feel the roster was complete so I made the last trade. I do agree. I was between that trade or a trade to bring Fleury back. I should have stopped at the 2 trades which landed us the picks prospects and cap space.