This trade is sick to my stomach.
Guentzel to Philly?
No thanks.
Penguins are not doing this trade with the Flyers.

No.

it can make you sick, and this is just a bare bones version of it as i didn't want to over complicate it.

But Look at the value of the prospect.

It's a legit question to ask. If they are going to move Jake, does the prospect not make sense?
Did they miss the boat on this one.

Look at the trade they made and the ones they were rumored to be in on. They offered him to MTL for the Reinvacher pick. They traded him for Drysdale.

Philly wasn't going to take a 29 year old for Cutter. They wanted youth.

Neither one of us know what was or was not offered. That is all speculation and a lot of it is clickbait.

You are also assuming they wouldn't flip him in a 3 way trade.

It could be what they wanted was defense, and say they are fine at forward.

I'm just point out that they might have been late for the party so to speak. As you can say they wouldn't take a 29 year old for Cutter, but there is a huge difference in the quality between Jake and what they actually got.

They got a piece they felt they needed to add to their core, a 21 year old right shot top 4 D, on a cheap contract with RFA rights intact.

You seriously think Guentzel was going to land Gauthier? Teams don't trade prospects like that for guys knocking on the door of 30, even if they come with an extension agreement.

That's funny, how you get Tippet again?
You got hosed on your trade btw. He's not that good and PHL knew that, it was the best offer for what they could get in a bad situation.
Don't come telling me how Jake isn't a larger offer. On a value scale it more than makes sense, and you could easily have flipped him for a better young defenseman.
They had no leverage and hence took a lessor return.
Of course ANA might be the real one out, if he decides not to sign there either.

Bother to read a signature line my guy, I'm a Ducks fan, not a flyers fan. I'm pointing out that the Flyers valued youth in the return, someone to add to the core with their best years still ahead of them, not someone with their best hockey in the rearview mirror, maybe stop immortalizing your guy. Drysdale was a 6th overall pick and is 21 years old.

As to Tippet, he didn't look like he was working out, stat line reads that clear as day. Played nearly 100 games with the Cats and put up ~30 something points? Change of scenery did him well, that happens.

I am in full agreement with all of this other than when you alluded to Guentzel’s “best hockey [being] in the rear view”. He’s currently in his prime and is a great top line winger. I get that he is most likely currently at his peak as a player, but I just thought it should be noted that it’s not like he is in decline right now.

With that said, we’re surely in agreement that OP’s trade makes no sense for either party involved. PIT wouldn’t trade him to an arch rival that they’re currently battling with for a playoff spot, and PHI wouldn’t have moved Gauthier if youth wasn’t coming back. Not to mention that they wanted D.

none of that is true on Tippet he was always considered a good prospect/younger player
You fail to read the points I'm making.
Number 1 your whole rearview mirror is a joke.
Number 2 Drysdale was moved by ANA because he was an injury history poor performing player and they realized they could get out of it and get a better prospect.

Don't come tell me about how Drysdale is a better return. If someone offered Drysdale and a 2nd to the penguins for Jake you'd be laughed out the room.
The fact is, PHL got a poor return on a guy, because their hand was forced.
What I'm showing here is maybe the Pens missed out and could have offered a much higher return.
PHL could have easily flipped Jake to get what they wanted if they wanted youth in a defenseman.
40 goal scorers don't grow on trees.
But the Pens weren't in the market then on moving him so it passed them by.

You are so hung up on the age you act like teams will accept a lessor return. There is no evidence of that.
If anything the opposite is always true. Picks and prospects are always moved for more established players.

If you came with some sort of logical argument you might have something, but you don't.
Hell I even gave one myself that they might not have wanted another LW given their depth.
If they don't move Cam they don't have the depth so they'd have to 3 way trade a deal if they wanted to move him out for Defense.

That's an actual logical argument why it wouldn't happen.
But saying, oh he's 30 we wouldn't want a 40 goal scorer for a guy we can't sign because of that but lets take this under performing young defenseman with an injury history.
That has 0 logic to it.

I have pointed out the need for defense instead of a forward would be a reason this wouldn't happen. Something he did not point out.

But that doesn't mean they couldn't have flipped Jake to get it instead of taking an injury history poor performing defenseman and a 2nd.

Point being Jake as a trade piece has more value than Drysdale. Period. No one can really doubt that. You wouldn't take Drysdale for Jake right now and we both know that.
Which is why I point out they might have missed an opportunity not being ready to move Jake yet.
As PHL could have gotten a better return on a guy they could not sign than what they did. As flipping Jake probably brings back PHL a better return than Drysdale, and the penguins would get the high end prospect they would have wanted in return.
As noted above this was a bare bones trade.

Not to pile on but the guys above are right. You don't have to like the fact that Guentzel wouldn't have been on the radar for Cutter but it is factual. You're also trying to diminish the value of a 21 year old top 5 pick because of one injury, not injury prone, just one injury. Personally don't think there's a single team that would trade Drysdale for Guentzel if their roster was youth focused and that is a key point that teams look at.

In a vacuum I have no doubt in my mind that Guentzel holds more value than Drysdale, but, like we’ve all said, it all depends on the direction of a team when factoring the value of a player to their long term plans.

OP seems to insist that PHI could have simply flipped Guentzel for assets that better fit their timeline, but we all know that’s not how it works. This isn’t chel GM mode. Why would PHI take the extra step toward acquiring assets that fit their timeline just so PIT can have Gauthier? It just doesn’t make sense for a number of reasons.

More lunacy thinking a team is giving up a top 5 or even top pick for possibilty to resign a 30 year to a too expensive contract.
Why do so many think "their" team is entitled to premier UFA compensation?

Drysdale is a 21 year old RHD who can skate better than most forwards, He was in a bad situation in ANA, and probaly got rushed into the scene too quick with them. If the flyers can turn Drysdale into what his ceiling could be, it does not matter what Cutter becomes. Having young puck moving smooth skating RHD is an asset you will never find. Not downplaying Cutter as he is going to be a stud in the NHL, but there were always doubts about him playing center, and only being a winger. ANA made this trade because they have hit on many of their D-man draft picks and felt the addition of Cutter where he can play on the wing of McTavish or Carlsson will be massive. Going back on Drysdale, if Brad Shaw and Torts can make Risto look like a Top 4 d-man and have Sean Walker who was a cap dump have a career year, imagine what 3-4 years for Drysdale under Torts will be. Giving him the Werenski Treatment. As for the Pens, they had nothing reasonable they could offer the flyers. They do not have picks or prospects, nor do they have a player like Drysdale. JG is a good player, but he is the exact opposite of what the flyers need. 20 years ago the old guard flyers made this trade, now? Never.

Guentzel is a great player, but you need to realize that no team in the league is trading a guy like Drysdale or Cutter for a 30-year-old on an expiring contract who has played with Sid most of his career. Not downplaying JG value, he will get you a first+ but guys like Cutter and Drysdale 99% of the time are not on the market. If cutter doesn't want out, Drysdale is still a duck probably for a long time. Guenztel is not going to get close to a Drysdale in return.

This argument is terrible, first off the Flyers were clearly looking for a young defenseman. I agree its only speculation but apparently they tried to get Reinbacher and Byram. They are a rebuilding team and Jake doesn't fit their timeline. Finally the biggest reason why this is ridiculous.....Philly and Pittsburgh do not make trades. I could be wrong but it's been over 10 years since they made a deal and that was for a players rights in the off-season. They would never trade a top prospect like Cutter to Pittsburgh.

they traded for defensemen in the cup run, through a 3rd party i believe.

Which is why I have said a 3rd party might have needed to be involved here.
You are really missing the point.
Drysdale was such a low return for Cutter they had to add in a 2nd. He's not the valued young player you think he is. A multiple year on pace 35-40 goal scorer is way more valuable than what they got in return. The problem PHL had was they had no leverage. Cutter wasn't going to sign, he would finish out NCAA and pick. Which he still might do, which is why the return was very low.
Think Marino coming to PIT for a 4th. This is the type of downgrade PHL accepted.
If they could have got a 35-40 goal winger in return, and flipped though a 3rd team, because they as you note, do not trade. They could have landed a better young defenseman than injury history poor performing Drysdale.
Because I can tell you right now, if someone said, hey Penguins trade us Jake for poor performing Drysdale with an injury history and a 2nd, the penguins would tell you to pound salt.
This idea that Drysdale is some untouchable prospect is bogus. If he was ANA wouldn't have taken a risk on Cutter signing, and added a 2nd to that trade.



please don't link Drysdale and Cutter as same level of prospect they are not.
Drysdale is injury history poor performer who ANA had to add a 2nd in the trade, just in order to get a guy who is refusing to sign aka no leverage.
Fact is ANA knows he might not sign with them either, he is still unsigned, but were willing to take the risk anyway. That says a lot about their view of Drysdale.
You really over rate him.
You are right Jake is not getting Drysdale as a return, because there is no way the penguins would accept an injury history poor performer and a 2nd for Jake. You'd be laughed out the room.

You are basically admitting Drysdale was a struggling player of low value who needed to be rehabbed.
You are really going to go on with the argument that, that has more value that a consistent 35-40 goal winger?
This is where it ends. We are talking value in and value out here. What they got in return for Cutter was low. We know, because he wouldn't sign aka no leverage in a trade.

The point was already made, by me that maybe they wanted defense instead of a winger. That's an acceptable logic. But telling me teams don't trade prospects for good players in the peak of their career is just a bs excuse.
As I've said, odds are PHL could have got a better younger prospect flipping jake, aka a 3 way trade where the prospect for Jake ended up being Cutter, and a young defenseman ends up going to PHL.
Mainly because PHL could have got more from Jake than a young prospect that was refusing to sign with them.
They settled on Drysdale, poor performing and injury history because they could do no better.

you really fail to listen to the argument made.
1st Drysdale isn't diminished because of 1 injury, it's the poor play as well. Even others here have said he needs to be rehabbed.

2nd the argument was never over "team need" I was the one who said I could see if they wanted defense and not a winger because their LW is stacked. No one else. I made that point.

The argument made above is on that of VALUE. Drysdale is so little valued they are adding a 2nd for a guy that PHL has no leverage on and can't sign.
Think Marino going to the Pens for a 4th.... No leverage so EDM lost a good young defense prospect for basically nothing. PHL was in the same place and had to take the loss.

As a bear bones idea in general, the idea, no matter how you work it, a 3 way trade whatever where Cutter comes back to PIT, Jake moves out, say to a 3rd team which makes sense because PIT and PHL don't trade, and a better young defenseman goes to PHL makes sense.
My point being, PHL could have done a better return than what they got by flipping Jake, and PIT could have landed the top prospect they want out of Jake.

If you don't realize you are arguing nonsense instead of value. I don't know what to tell you. But the value on the return for PHL was low in the Drysdale trade.

1. Why would the flyers Trade Cutter to the pens or any metro team in general

2. Drysdale has value, more value than JG. Not saying that JG does not have value, but all of NHLGMS would not trade Drysdale for JG, or Cutter for JG. Blue Chip for Blue Chip thats it.

3. JG is not a blue chip guy, he is an accessory piece on an expiring contract who has played with Sid his whole life. He is a great goal scorer, but not worth Drysdale or Cutter on an expiring contract with NO guarentee that he will resign with that team. Not to mention he is 29-30 years old and gonna ask for more than 7 years

4. Say what you want about Drysdale being "damaged goods" he has played in the NHL before, I think anybody on that ANA could use a "change of scenery". Zegras is dealing with the same issues, do you think he is damaged goods? Does not mean he does not have value, rumors had it the Ducks added the second to outbid another team, as soon as Drysdale was in trade talks, the flyers knew they were gonna get him.

5. I do think cutter is a great player, but he also has NEVER played an NHL game and he is a WINGER, not a center, hence why the ducks got him to be a winger

6. 21 year old Puck Moving RHD who can skate better than most forwards are never available ever, flyers gave up value in cutter, but got value back. IT was kept quiet that he wanted out, many NHL GMs did not know this until after the trade.

7. When there are 18-20 teams interested in Cutter, the flyers did not settle.

8. If Drysdale hits his ceiling and becomes Zach Werenski or Cale Makar, it does not matter what Cutter is, Teams would kill for Werenski or Cale Makar, but they cant develop or attain them. Ducks have a deep D pipeline, Flyers needed a 1D....

I have my flaws with the Philadelphia Flyers, but they did not settle or lose this trade.

1. because its a matter of return on assets. Yes I know, Pens are a rival.... but you do the best for YOUR team as a GM even if it means dealing with them.

2. No Drysdale does not have more value than Jake. That is your misjudgment. Just because a player is younger does not mean they are "better".
Drysdale is/was a struggling player in ANA. Notice the low return on the trade. PIT would never accept Drysdale and a 2nd for Jake. Forget about that. The offer is too low. Its like taking Kakko and a 1st from the rangers. The answer is NO.

3. Your valuation of jake is wrong. The whole "he played with sid he has no "real" value of his own, is just you being a hater. I can give you a whole list of guys who couldn't put up goals at a 35-40 goal pace on sids wing. So that ends the conversation right there. His contract is what it is, we know nothing of it other than rumors. In the end finding guys who can net 40 aren't easy to come by and guys with that level of talent play will in to their 30s. It's not out of place to say Jake could play well to 34 or 35. Many guys do. It's not like the wheels are coming off at 31. So yes you may have 1-2 bad years on a 7 year deal. That's just the buyers tax on a 40 goal guy and you get that all the time.

4. again rumor.... I don't care about rumors. Click bait is everywhere with desperate hockey nerds on the internet willing to click anything. As far as Zegras is concerned is it going to be a multiple year slide like Drysdale. The guy played bad or was injured for 3 years. If you get the same out of Zegras yes his value will drop.

5. It makes no difference if he is a center or a winger. That has nothing to do with the WHOLE conversation or his value as a prospect here.

6. 1 it was not quiet that he wanted out. It was reported on actual hockey news sites like sprotsnet. 2. You keep saying this, 21 year old puck moving RHD who can skate. .. you can skate all day if you can't play hockey for crap you have no value. He bled goals all over the ice and it's not like his point production was high. He was maxing out at 4 goals per year. With a bunch of assists a portion of them being 2nd.
You are vastly over valuing a player. He's not freaking EK in his prime or even now that he's older. He's just not that good. Hell in PHL he's bleeding more goals than he's got points.

7. The flyers settled.

8. If pigs could fly and other ramblings...... Please don't use him and Cale Makar in the same sentence. You are reaching very far on this. 3 years of injured or bad play in ANA. It is what it is. We are dealing in realities not hopes and dreams. 35-40 goal scorers have more value than poor performing young players. Being "young" does not make you the more valuable piece. It's what you DO on the ice that gives you value. Drysdale is no where near a 1D.

again they settled. I'm not saying they had a choice. It is what it is. My whole point to this thread is....IF the penguins would have know they were going to move Jake......this could have looked different......VALUE wise.....it makes more sense for both teams. As stated in my 1st reply, it's bare bones to not over complicate the issue but to throw the idea out there.
You know, more interesting conversation then the whole list of HORRIBLE acgm's on this board.
This is a convo that did not exist prior as no one on here thought of looking back at and how it might have worked. Clearly from comment it would have been a 3 way trade, where Jake geos to one team, a young defenseman goes to PHL (a better one than what they got in Drysdale) and Cutter to the penguins.

But you are hell bent on not looking back at the possibility and instead insist that somehow Drysdale was some great reward for losing a blue chip prospect. He wasn't.
Most people agree that ANA won the trade.