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Leafs 2023 2024 Season Discussion Part 6 - Nearly Playoffs

Apr. 17 at 12:29 a.m.
#551
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Quoting: LeafsFanForSomeReason
I get people like to blame the coach, but there's really no evidence that he did nothing.

Like he can't overhaul the system mid-period. It's up to the players to execute that system and make the right decisions out there on the ice, which they very, very did not.

I'm sure he's not standing on the bench with his thumb in his ass going "gee I don't know what's going on here, just keep doing the same thing fellas"


I agree that at times Sheldon is an easy target but having played to a high level I can say from what I see he is a really bad coach.

I'll give you a few reasons why I think this:

1. A common problem I see with the leafs (especially on the PP and in transition) is that they overthink everything. Their PP id actually at its best when individuals are chasing stats because then at least everyone is feeding Matthews or Knies or Bert or whoever is chasing the milestone/hatty/etc. I blame Keefe for this. If you read any "behind the scenes" on Keefe he's a massive strategists and he's know for studying other games, teams, sports and constantly proposing new ideas but rarely acting on them. Essentially the way he coaches (loads of thinking and strategizing with minimal action) is exactly how the team plays on the ice.

2. Team doesn't show up on time or for big games. Having played AAA to the point where teammates respect each other more than the coach (likely the situation in the Leafs room) one of the main things a coach needs to still be capable of doing in that environment is motivating the team. If he losses that control/respect then he is reliant on team members to do this. Some teams (like the early 2010s rangers had a strong leadership core and this was fine) but the Leafs don't have that and if Keefe isn't doing it then it seems nobody is (maybe this is changing we've seen Tavares and Rielly specifically be more engaged this year).

3. Lack of adjustments. O'Reilly essentially called him out for it last year but Keefe defaults back to certain players and combinations when the team struggles. Despite all his strategizing he doesn't rearrange his team to meet the tasks at hand, he rearranges them to what worked in the past. If things go south you'll see Rielly/Brodie, Mathews/Marner, Jarnkrok in the top 6, Lili's ice time down. This is just his default and it shouldn't be. He should be more flexible and adapt based on what is needed to win. Maybe that means that the Leafs trust their bottom 9 is better than Bostons given their depth issues so they load up Nylander/Matthews/Marner to make sure they win the top line matchup. Idk what the series will need but I'm pretty confident Keefe won't deliver.
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Apr. 17 at 2:10 a.m.
#552
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Quoting: Leafsfan98
Why not:
Bert (4.5)-Matthews- Domi (3 mill)
McMann-JT-Marner
Knies-Holmberg-Willy
Dewar-Kampf-Reaves

Rielly-5.5 UFA defensemen
McCabe-Lilly (2.5 mill)
Benoit-3 mill defensemen
Niemela

Woll
Martin Jones type backup

Extras whom have the waiver exempt and can be brought up in case of emergency:
Hirvonen
Niemela
Riafali
Hildeby
Minten

CAP SPACE: 2.4 mill


It sounds like a good plan to me


Your numbers for Bertuzzi are off, not because I think it's something I couldn't live with but because Bertuzzi is probably looking at 6 million/year on a long term deal. That's simply not something the Leafs can do.

As for Domi, sure maybe he can be talked into staying because his history as a kid in the city/team/building but I think he will want a long term deal as well...not sure that can be done.

As for a goalie, I don't think it's wise to go with a Martin Jones type goalie/contract. Woll still has to prove he can stay healthy...I'm skeptical that he can so spending on a goaltender is probably a necessity.
Apr. 17 at 2:20 a.m.
#553
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Quoting: fangm
I agree that at times Sheldon is an easy target but having played to a high level I can say from what I see he is a really bad coach.

I'll give you a few reasons why I think this:

1. A common problem I see with the leafs (especially on the PP and in transition) is that they overthink everything. Their PP id actually at its best when individuals are chasing stats because then at least everyone is feeding Matthews or Knies or Bert or whoever is chasing the milestone/hatty/etc. I blame Keefe for this. If you read any "behind the scenes" on Keefe he's a massive strategists and he's know for studying other games, teams, sports and constantly proposing new ideas but rarely acting on them. Essentially the way he coaches (loads of thinking and strategizing with minimal action) is exactly how the team plays on the ice.

2. Team doesn't show up on time or for big games. Having played AAA to the point where teammates respect each other more than the coach (likely the situation in the Leafs room) one of the main things a coach needs to still be capable of doing in that environment is motivating the team. If he losses that control/respect then he is reliant on team members to do this. Some teams (like the early 2010s rangers had a strong leadership core and this was fine) but the Leafs don't have that and if Keefe isn't doing it then it seems nobody is (maybe this is changing we've seen Tavares and Rielly specifically be more engaged this year).

3. Lack of adjustments. O'Reilly essentially called him out for it last year but Keefe defaults back to certain players and combinations when the team struggles. Despite all his strategizing he doesn't rearrange his team to meet the tasks at hand, he rearranges them to what worked in the past. If things go south you'll see Rielly/Brodie, Mathews/Marner, Jarnkrok in the top 6, Lili's ice time down. This is just his default and it shouldn't be. He should be more flexible and adapt based on what is needed to win. Maybe that means that the Leafs trust their bottom 9 is better than Bostons given their depth issues so they load up Nylander/Matthews/Marner to make sure they win the top line matchup. Idk what the series will need but I'm pretty confident Keefe won't deliver.


I've tried to convey some of the same things you have pointed out here but Idon't know if some of us are in agreement with these things.

Starting on time and inspiring the team to elevate their play are two things that have been a consistent problem under Keefe.


As for the playoffs matchup, Boston and Florida play similar enough in the ratty ways and I feel it didn't matter which team they'd play.

Start on time and handle the ratty situations smartly. But yeah..I'm not confident sadly.
Apr. 17 at 2:28 a.m.
#554
Hakuna Matata
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Quoting: oneX
Your numbers for Bertuzzi are off, not because I think it's something I couldn't live with but because Bertuzzi is probably looking at 6 million/year on a long term deal. That's simply not something the Leafs can do.

As for Domi, sure maybe he can be talked into staying because his history as a kid in the city/team/building but I think he will want a long term deal as well...not sure that can be done.

As for a goalie, I don't think it's wise to go with a Martin Jones type goalie/contract. Woll still has to prove he can stay healthy...I'm skeptical that he can so spending on a goaltender is probably a necessity.


With the season he had would be shocked if anyone gives 6m

He may have to sign another prove it as man for the first half he was lost
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Apr. 17 at 7:37 a.m.
#555
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Quoting: aadoyle
Again because of Woll's recent struggles vs. BOS the logical answer is Samsonov

BOS has gotten the upperhand on Woll twice in b2b matchups. Last time Sammy faced them was in a SO loss. No SO in playoffs

Sammy had his recent struggles but we know he has handled BOS well. And before those 2 last starts went on a run and has gotten better support


Recent struggles. His first two games back after injury vs a top team in the league who was rolling a the time. Make up whatever you want
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Apr. 17 at 8:47 a.m.
#556
Leafs going to Leafs
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Quoting: oneX
Your numbers for Bertuzzi are off, not because I think it's something I couldn't live with but because Bertuzzi is probably looking at 6 million/year on a long term deal. That's simply not something the Leafs can do.

As for Domi, sure maybe he can be talked into staying because his history as a kid in the city/team/building but I think he will want a long term deal as well...not sure that can be done.

As for a goalie, I don't think it's wise to go with a Martin Jones type goalie/contract. Woll still has to prove he can stay healthy...I'm skeptical that he can so spending on a goaltender is probably a necessity.


Bert's not going to get to though... Not enough cap, I see Bert getting a 4.5-5 mill deal on a long term contract
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Apr. 17 at 9:40 a.m.
#557
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Edited Apr. 17 at 10:01 a.m.
Quoting: aadoyle
With the season he had would be shocked if anyone gives 6m

He may have to sign another prove it as man for the first half he was lost


Quoting: Leafsfan98
Bert's not going to get to though... Not enough cap, I see Bert getting a 4.5-5 mill deal on a long term contract


Even at 5-5.5 million (which I think he would settle for) on a long term deal is not something Leafs can do. Also with the style he and Domi play where it gets physical at times (specifically Bertuzzi in front of the net) these types of players don't age well.

This is why I think they will want long term deals and for them, this might be their last contract because of the above reasons.

Edit: Meant to also say that there's always a team willing to overpay in free agency. I don't on't need to provide a list of players and you don't even have to look beyond this team to see this.
Apr. 17 at 9:56 a.m.
#558
Leafs going to Leafs
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Quoting: oneX
Even at 5-5.5 million (which I think he would settle for) on a long term deal is not something Leafs can do. Also with the style he and Domi play where it gets physical at times (specifically Bertuzzi in front of the net) these types of players don't age well.

This is why I think they will want long term deals and for them, this might be their last contract because of the above reasons.


I mean, look at Hyman... He's doing just fine taking the same abuse, look at Bunting and there are others
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Apr. 17 at 12:49 p.m.
#559
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Quoting: oneX
Even at 5-5.5 million (which I think he would settle for) on a long term deal is not something Leafs can do. Also with the style he and Domi play where it gets physical at times (specifically Bertuzzi in front of the net) these types of players don't age well.

This is why I think they will want long term deals and for them, this might be their last contract because of the above reasons.

Edit: Meant to also say that there's always a team willing to overpay in free agency. I don't on't need to provide a list of players and you don't even have to look beyond this team to see this.


Rn I don't even sew him in the 5m range.

With the season he had a Tofdoli like deals more likely

That said for TOR and wanting to improve defense got to move on
Apr. 17 at 12:54 p.m.
#560
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Edited Apr. 17 at 12:59 p.m.
Quoting: RipNasty
Recent struggles. His first two games back after injury vs a top team in the league who was rolling a the time. Make up whatever you want


Woll's faced BOS 3 times this season Allowing 4 goals in each game. Sample's there for what not to do this post season lul

Just cant keep making excuses and saying oh he's calm. Yeah that calmness let in 2 softies yesterday and did not look great on goal 4.

Again hopefully got a bright future but against BOS were just handicapping ourselves.
Apr. 17 at 3:13 p.m.
#561
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The lineup decisions for game 1 vs. BOS are gonna be fascinating lul

We know the starter and the big 4 will be in but the bottom 6 and whose gonna be paired together on the blue line are the big ?
Apr. 17 at 5:38 p.m.
#562
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Quoting: Leafsfan98
I mean, look at Hyman... He's doing just fine taking the same abuse, look at Bunting and there are others


Yeah I don't know Hyman's age but he's not 35-36 and generally at those ages is when these types of players really drop off. It's what I was thinking of when imagining a long term deal for Bertuzzi.
Apr. 17 at 6:28 p.m.
#563
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Quoting: aadoyle
Woll's faced BOS 3 times this season Allowing 4 goals in each game. Sample's there for what not to do this post season lul

Just cant keep making excuses and saying oh he's calm. Yeah that calmness let in 2 softies yesterday and did not look great on goal 4.

Again hopefully got a bright future but against BOS were just handicapping ourselves.


All you do is make up excuses for Sammy and then blame Woll for other people's mistakes, while pointing the finger at everyone else to boost Sammy. It's ridiculous.
Apr. 17 at 6:31 p.m.
#564
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Quoting: oneX
Yeah I don't know Hyman's age but he's not 35-36 and generally at those ages is when these types of players really drop off. It's what I was thinking of when imagining a long term deal for Bertuzzi.


33 is generally when players start taking a big step back. It's less for star players and of course there are outliers of course. Bertuzzi and Domi are I think 28 and 29 respectively. 6 year term will be problematic for both.
Apr. 17 at 6:41 p.m.
#565
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Edited Apr. 17 at 7:39 p.m.
Quoting: oneX
Yeah I don't know Hyman's age but he's not 35-36 and generally at those ages is when these types of players really drop off. It's what I was thinking of when imagining a long term deal for Bertuzzi.


I think realistically he is gonna sign a Toffoli like deal if he wants term

Personally I think another show me though is coming at around 4.75m but not here do to TOR needing to divert funds elsewhere

As the first half of the season that man was lost, second half was where we finally got the guy we were expecting in the OS lul
Apr. 17 at 6:46 p.m.
#566
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Edited Apr. 17 at 7:05 p.m.
Quoting: RipNasty
All you do is make up excuses for Sammy and then blame Woll for other people's mistakes, while pointing the finger at everyone else to boost Sammy. It's ridiculous.


Did I excuse him when I said goal 4 should have been had in Det? Believe I mentioned that lul.

Look I get the Woll homerism as he's young with hopefully a bright future but at the same time we cant just keep making excuses for the kid when he has not been been good enough and has shown he aint it yet. The FLA sealed it, yes he could have got more support but the goal to make it 4-2 was not good.


And factoring in whose our first round opponent (Boston) and Woll's struggles against them were just handicapping ourselves even more in this underdog series. As in every game he has had against them they have scored 4 on him. Not good
Apr. 17 at 7:06 p.m.
#567
Hakuna Matata
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Gonna be real interesting to see what TOR does next season for goaltending

But I dont see Woll being full time starter next season the injury history and sample just does not bode well for either side.

Not saying trade for Markstrom or Saros but explore all options as this FA has candidates to tandem/be the starter if need be
Apr. 17 at 7:17 p.m.
#568
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Edited Apr. 17 at 7:25 p.m.
Rather than get scored on twice while your on the ice

Hit FriggIn 70 already Matthews lul

Dont care for the outcome
Apr. 17 at 7:24 p.m.
#569
Rip
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Quoting: aadoyle
Did I excuse him when I said goal 4 should have been had in Det? Believe I mentioned that lul.

Look I get the Woll homerism as he's young with hopefully a bright future but at the same time we cant just keep making excuses for the kid when he has not been been good enough and has shown he aint it yet. The FLA sealed it, yes he could have got more support but the goal to make it 4-2 was not good.


And factoring in whose our first round opponent (Boston) and Woll's struggles against them were just handicapping ourselves even more in this underdog series. As in every game he has had against them they have scored 4 on him. Not good


Well right now the leafs have no goalies that inspire confidence. When they are on their game, Woll is the best of the bunch. Just go with the future
Apr. 17 at 7:38 p.m.
#570
Hakuna Matata
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Always happy to see a Reaves goal
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Apr. 17 at 7:43 p.m.
#571
Rip
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So maybe Matt Murray for game 1? Lol
Apr. 17 at 8:24 p.m.
#572
Hakuna Matata
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Hockey gods dont want 70 it seems rn

2 posts and a missed backhand
Apr. 17 at 8:38 p.m.
#573
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Timmins nice knowing you get the **** off this team
Apr. 17 at 8:41 p.m.
#574
Hakuna Matata
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Edited Apr. 17 at 8:52 p.m.
Nylander just stopped playing lul

Your gonna be making 11.5m these kinds of playz = no no
Apr. 17 at 8:43 p.m.
#575
McMann Season
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If Matthews doesn’t hit 70 I will be distraught, as absurd as that may seem
 
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