Id become a caps fan again after this trade... too bad GMBM is a dummy

In my opinion the caps had the sickest roster in the league on paper last season.. it's more too bad their players don't pull it together in playoffs

How? He built the best team in the league 2 years in a row. Not his fault his team can't get bounces and Holtby crapped the bed.

Your quote. "Vegas doesn't look like an expansion team". They sure do with this trade because they lose 3 NHL regulars and only get one in return. Vegas is trying to build a fan base, not having an AHL team.

Thanks, Palhal. But the NHL only lets you start the season with 23 NHL regulars on one-way, non-rookie contracts. The rest are exposed to waivers for 24 hours, during which any other team in the league with roster space may claim them. The Golden Knights currently have eleven defensemen under contract. Most teams carry seven. Some carry eight. I think what gets McPhee interested in this deal is that it addresses four of his needs: depth players to re-call, without losing anybody on waivers, getting significant value for his extra defensemen, acquiring a top defensive player to teach the rest of his young squad the ropes (because, let's face it, Clayton Stoner does not know everything about the defensive side of the game, and Brooks Orpik, as much as any active NHL player, does), and an extra first round draft pick, to help build what looks like a perennial contender in the '20s. That last part is significant, because none of the three players he's giving up, indivdually, is worth a 1st round pick in this year's NHL trade market, because none of them is expected to be a star player. To the Caps, however, since all three are expected to be decent NHLers, and they are in win-now mode until further notice, the chance to add three decent NHL players immediately, with some offensive upside, a bit of youth, and a bit of speed to match some of the Penguins' peripheral players, is worth a lot more than a 50/50 chance of adding one more very good young player in a couple years. And as much as they do have to believe that all of the prospects above are ready to take a regular shift in the NHL, they're not ready to put them on the ice right away for more than three or four games while they're trying to earn a third straight President's trophy, so they're better tradng them, two-to-one, for some guys who have already made the leap into the NHL, and just need some solid mentorship to stick there. As Caps fans, we know George McPhee is brilliant, and we also know that he raided the Caps' front office of a lot of talented hockey guys, leading to the Caps having their worst summer in a long time, ths year. He and MacLellan (the Caps' GM, and McPhee's former assistant GM in Washington) have been friends for decades. I'm sure neither of them even suggests a deal unless they're sure it's win-win, and helps both parties meet their long term objectives, and solve short term problems.

What I mean by "vegas doesn't look like an expansion team," is that expansion teams start out with a lot of third and fourth line NHLers, and a lot of draft picks who aren't ready to play, but should become first and second line players, if they're given enough time to develop in the minor leagues (since hockey players are drafted at 18 y.o., but typically start playing in the NHL closer to 21y.o. or older). Promoting players too young can lead to injuries and damage their confidence if they get smoked by the speed of the professionals, too often. So established teams will promote decent prospects earlier than great prospects. Vegas doesn't want to end up in a spot where, say, Perron gets injured and they have no one to call up but their recent first round draft picks. So they have a far team they'll fill with whoever they can scrounge up, probably with free agents cut loose by other minor league teams, and some of those guys will end up in the NHL at times, this year and next year. They'd be better off with a nucleus of solid minor league talent from a perennial contender at the American Hockey League level.

Watch: I'll put this same trade up, on a Vegas roster, and let's see what other long-time hockey fans say. My guess is that, since McPhee build the Capitals' current powerhouse by drafting three times each in two straight first rounds, he takes this deal if it's offered, because he was hired to re-make the same recipe. But let's see what people say...

One of your main points in doing this is wrong. Vegas only needs to clear 2 dmen slots. They have 11 dmen, 1 of them waiver-exempt and 1 of them a NHL/AHL tweener. They almost certainly want to trade 1 or 2 of the remaining 9, but McPhee also said he doesn't want to trade his young players. I see your point with this trade, but I don't think it's realistic.

Thanks for your feedback, and I like that you're thinking through the other side of this, a bit. That seems to imply that you can see how the Capitals view this as a win, so I'll take it as a compliment. I think you mean Shea Theodore and Brad Hunt, right? Hunt is certainly likely to clear waivers. Fine. Theodore is unlikely to be sent down; they acquired him and Stoner because they worked well together last year as a pair in Anaheim. Vegas wants to start out with a bit of stability. Adding Nate Schmidt's defensive partner from Washington, at a cost of their 7th, 8th, 11th best defensemen, to instantly give them a shutdown par that helped win the President's Trophy is a win for Vegas, and it still leaves them holding eight NHL defensemen, but at least when they're able to unload the expiring contracts of Garrison and Sbisa, they have Siegenthaler to call up ahead of Hunt.

Knowing that George McPhee built these Capitals after drafting six first round picks over two years, and that he made three picks in last year's first round, I think he's been hired to repeat the same recipe. So I really see him moving a couple more of the young defensemen (McNabb is the same age as Trevor Van Riemsdyk, whom he said goodbye to for a 2nd round pick the day before he stated he's not trading young guys) to get one of his two remaining first rounders. I'm not even sure he asks for so many prospects to be thrown in, but Washington has an established talent pipeline, and I'm trying to make the point that they could give up five guys who are good enough to be role players in the NHL this fall, and not miss any of them. Can Vegas start the season with Garrison instead of Theodore? Sure. Then they can just trade Miller for a 2nd rounder, which probably hurts them more than the above deal, although Washington should still be interested, either way. And they can either get a 5th or 6th for Engelland, or just waive him and see what happens. But then they're building three new defensive pairings, all out of total strangers. It could get pretty ugly. Instead, here's my look at a solid Vegas roster with two NHL-proven defensive pairs keeping them in games, two talented young defensemen trying out as a third pair, and Garrison in the press box, eager to fill in as needed: https://www.capfriendly.com/armchair-gm/team/444151 I don't see the Caps wanting to move Orpik, but I see them viewing this deal as an overall win, in terms of rebuilding from a rough summer, and a lot of hard knocks, most of which were dealt to them by their old GM, George McPhee.

If the Caps could pull that, I'd view it as a major win. They'd be ditching a horrible contract and getting 2 good dmen and 1 good forward, and not giving up much. The 1st and Siegenthaler have value, but Stephenson hasn't even done well on the 4th, McGauley has played more in the ECHL than AHL, and the other 2 are unknown quantities (although Malenstyn has looked good). My take is that it makes the Caps defense quite a bit better while not helping Vegas much.

The one thing that makes it possible is that Vegas does need to make a move and will have trouble getting good value. I just wonder if the Caps might be better letting a couple prospect dmen get playing time.

Sorry Eli, I really think you're looking at this with just benefiting the Capitals. Vegas has lots of draft picks in a few and years and already had a number of 1,2.3 rounders in the 2017 draft. What they need now is NHLers on their current roster so they can field a team this year. You've traded them AHLers. Gee the Vegas is sharing an AHL this year and don't need more AHLers. In your description you talk about your love for 18 goal scorer Karlsson but you tried to buy him with absolutely nothing being returned of value to Vegas.

Well, I did put Djoos and Vrana higher up in the lneup than any of the acquisitions. I agree that the Caps need to find ways to give their prospects more experience. On a rebulding team, Stevenson would already have 40 NHL games and 10 points, and be viewed as a reasonable NHL fringe player. The Caps have been really healthy and really good the last few years, and through a combination of trading picks and not having many opportunties to call up the prospects in the system, they are in a contradictory position where Hershey is a perennial good team but only a handful of players on it are looked at as NHL ready. Bowey has been injured too much, so I think Miller would be easier to plug in and count on right away. Karlsson fills an organizational need for an offensive center outside of Backstrom and Kuznetsov. I could maybe buy keeping Siegenthaler and a few prospects and not gettng McNabb, if that's what your'e suggesing?

But I think McPhee wants to make a deal with the Caps, or he could have drafted Grubauer instead of Schmidt, and started the year with a more balanced roster. Instead, he took a defenseman from a team that was obviously about to lose two defensemen in free agency.

The Caps are indeed fine letting a lot of their prospects try out for spots. But McPhee could really stand to pull a rabbit out of a hat to avoid losing two or three guys on waivers. This would be a way for him to save face on his idea of stockpiling all the LHDs, and turn two of them that he doesn't need into a first round pick, at a price of also throwing in his fourth best offensive center (behind Cody Eakin, Jonathan Marchesault, and Vadim Shipachyov). I don't know much about Wlliam Karlsson. Just that he's not an established middle six player like Cody Eakin, a thirty goal scorer like Marchesault, or a big money free agent/nternational star like Shipachyov. So I'm guessing he's available.

Miller's the main guy the Caps get. He's looked kind of meh, in adjusting to the NHL with Boston, so he might not pan out into anything at all, but if he does put it together, he could be pretty fun to watch (http://lakingsinsider.com/2015/01/26/miller-shines-at-ahl-skills-competition/). With Carlson heading for UFA and Bowey missing so much of the last couple years with injuries, the Caps could really use an RHD prospect on the cusp of making it in the NHL, even if he isn't waiver exempt, and that could mean Bowey spends one more year developing.

You know, I'm thinking about this more from the Caps perspective, and it's a huge overpayment for three questionable young players, relative to how well they fit Washington's needs. McNabb is a solid 3LD, but the Caps have Orlov, Djoos, Orpik, Chorney and Johanson on the left side, and aren't giving up any picks to improve there this year. On the right, Miller is a#7 defenseman: he start 65% of his shifts in the offensive zone, and still has an even plus minus, and not terribly impressive offensive totals. Karlsson isn't technically an 18-goal scorer. That's his career total. In his best year he's put up nine goals (https://www.hockey-reference.com/players/k/karlswi01.html). Karlsson is a 4th line center who loses as many faceoffs as Beagle wins. If you're going to be a contrarian, try looking something up, now and then.

The Caps have prospects better than Karlsson right now, and they have prospects who need some NHL ice time at left D. They might need to add a right handed defenseman, but the trade value doesn't come from Miller's youth, or his AHL performance. McPhee talked about his expansion draft deals in terms of opportunity cost: how those deals compared to the alternatives for each team invovled. The Caps still can choose from several UFA defensemen who are better at playing defense than Miller. But the Caps do need a fill-in on the right side in the event that Bowey is not ready to play full time in the NHL and needs another year in the AHL. They would be better served with someone on a two-way contract, and may be able to get one with Roman Polak, Fedor Tyutin, Oleg Yevenko.... or just stick Aaron Ness up there. Miller has a little bit more potential to turn into a second pairing defenseman than any of those guys, but not a ton more. I think the Caps would give a 4th for Miller. Vegas needs to sell defensemen. Nobody is giving anything for their big contract guys right now without huge salary retentions, and they should not deal Reinhart, Theodore, or Merrill. That leaves Schmidt, Miller, and McNabb as options. Schmidt and McNabb are better, more established NHL players, and only two years older. So Miller is the one they'd miss the least. I think the Caps offer a 4th pick for him, and Vegas looks around to see if anyone else has a better offer.

But they might still trade something for Karlsson, if they're still intrigued by trying to put together language communities within their team. Karlsson fits their salary structure better than the established top line forward Marcus Johanson and, by next season, gives them four Swedish speaking NHL regulars. One more and they have a group that can practice and play together, shouting out exactly what they're going to do, and most opponents will have no idea what they're saying. But they'll still need to find another Swedish sepaking defenseman to get there (or just teach Ovechkin swedish, and let him play point on the power play).