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Haynezy

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Dec. 6, 2020
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Forum: Trade Machine ProposalsJan. 29, 2023 at 2:34 p.m.
Thread: Edmundson to Edmonton
<div class="quote"><div class="quote_t">Quoting: <b>delete</b></div><div>i have continually heard,for mtl it starts with BOURGAULT.it will be something similar to CHIAROT.EDMUNDSON is signed to a very reasonable contract,was one of the four clydesdales to take the habs to the final.and is exactly what the oil need.but a 2nd and a bad contract doesnt come close.its BOURGAULT,LAVOIE,DESHARNAIS and PULJUJARVI to make money work,while the habs throw in a forward with some bite like PEZZETTA.The is oil very close and need a big shutdown left dman on there 2nd pair,so if they dont get GAVRIKOV, they will pay it.</div></div>

I've heard the reports but these reports aren't always correct. With so many LHD available this trade deadline I don't think they will get an A prospect, B prospect, 4th Liner and a reclamation project for Edmundson. Seems like a lot to me. Especially considering Edmundson's history of chronic back issues.

It will be interesting to see what Montreal can get if they decide to trade him.
Forum: Trade Machine ProposalsJan. 29, 2023 at 11:33 a.m.
Thread: Edmundson to Edmonton
<div class="quote"><div class="quote_t">Quoting: <b>EatMyScoobySnack</b></div><div>This clearly show that you don't remember well, here what the article was saying:

<em>MONTREAL - Montreal Canadiens general manager Marc Bergevin announced today that the team has acquired defenseman Joel Edmundson from the Carolina Hurricanes, in return for a fifth-round pick in 2020. Edmundson is set to become an unrestricted free agent at the end of the current Stanley Cup Playoffs
</em>

This was for Edmundson RIGHT as a player that Bergevin pay the fifth pick. Hurricane have accepted because they knew they won't bring him back and get a small return over giving him for nothing in UFA market.


The value of a player right versus is real valor is so different. It's like if Winnipeg want a first prospect and roster player for Dubois right now and when he will be eligible to be UFA he be sold for a 5 round pick that don't mean that is the value of the player but only team that may trade a player right to another for a small return over losing him for nothing.</div></div>

All I said was " Let's remember Montreal acquired Edmundson for a 5th round pick 3 years ago." And the title of the article is "the team has acquired defenseman Joel Edmundson from the Carolina Hurricanes, in return for a fifth-round pick in 2020."

I was aware it was for his rights (which is the same as acquiring the player but yes the value is different - I didn't specify just like the title of the article). However, some players' negotiating rights are more valuable than others. Even with his current contract I think he is being over-valued right now and I don't see MTL getting a package like the Chirot one.
Forum: Trade Machine ProposalsJan. 28, 2023 at 2:45 p.m.
Forum: Trade Machine ProposalsJan. 26, 2023 at 4:57 p.m.
Thread: Tarasenko to NYI
<div class="quote"><div class="quote_t">Quoting: <b>Db1899</b></div><div>Production is influenced by linemates, it's the biggest factor to consider when evaluating a players true offensive impact. Wahlstrom was actually on pace for 22 goals in his rookie season playing 4th line minutes against top competition.

the difference between my take and yours is mine is backed up with facts, there is no debating that tarasenko has a stronger offensive impact than wahlstrom this season.

OFF = overall offensive impact, where wahlstrom has tarasenko beat by a significant amount. Wahlstrom is not only better offensively , he's also better defensively, Hes about 4x as valuable as tarasenko

<img class="for_img" src="" alt=""><img src="https://i.ibb.co/CKb5Td0/Screen-Shot-2023-01-26-at-2-52-10-PM.png" alt="Screen-Shot-2023-01-26-at-2-52-10-PM"><a href="https://imgbb.com/" rel="nofollow noreferrer noopener" target="_blank">upload images</a>"&gt;</div></div>

Yes, production is influenced by teammates, I never said it isn't - but it's not everything. Individual performance is the biggest factor when evaluating a players offensive impact, not performance of their teammates - it's just related. This is why you can put an elite player anywhere in the lineup and they will produce regardless of their teammates. Yes, better teammates will lead to better production but individual ability is being overlooked.

I never said Wahlstrom wasn't on pace for 22 goals his rookie year. I said he has never had a 22 goal season. There's a difference between being on pace for something and actually achieving it. And look what happened the year after... typical sophomore slump and it was a bad one. How can you be so sure he won't regress next season? Also, he was primarily a 3rd liner his rookie season did not consistently play against top players (1st liners) and his ice time reflects that. Playing 4th line minutes shows he's not ready for more ice time - it's not a good thing. If he was consistently playing against top players he would get top minutes. That's just logic. I don't care if he can play against top players for 3 shifts - he has to be able to match them. To say he was playing 4th line minutes against top players is incorrect and contradicts itself.

It seems you don't understand that I'm drawing from facts as well. I'm not arguing who has the better "OFF" this season - which is subject to change but may not. I'm just saying I think Tarasenko can be more valuable from a production standpoint than Wahlstrom because of his previous success, not his current success. You're also not accounting that if Wahlstrom gets more ice time it's possible that his statistics will regress and that's why he doesn't get more ice time - it's because he is the most effective averaging 12 minutes a season.

If he is truly 4x more valuable than Tarasenko let's see if he gets 4x more money on his next contract.

I don't think you understand relativity or how to read in-between the lines.
Forum: Trade Machine ProposalsJan. 26, 2023 at 2:45 p.m.
Thread: Tarasenko to NYI
<div class="quote"><div class="quote_t">Quoting: <b>Db1899</b></div><div>Not this year he hasn’t. Tarasenko was an elite player in his prime, Wahlstrom will never be as good as Tarasenkos peak. What is a fact is that Wahlstrom is much better than Tarasenko this season and will provide more value in his age 23-25 seasons than Tarasenko in his age 32-34 seasons.

I suppose you’ve never heard of aging curves. Tarasenko is past his prime and will likely be nothing more than an average middle 6 winger going forward. He plays with Thomas and Buchnevich , two elite forwards. Are you implying that they aren’t? That’s a better combo than anything the isles have. What we do agree on is that it would be nice to see Wahlstrom average more than 12 min. Isles aren’t exactly known for their player development. Over the last 20 years, Wahlstrom has provided more value on a minute per minute basis than any other winger drafted by the isles in their age 20-22 season. Wahlstrom scores goals at a top 6 rate and he’s the isles best defensive forward.</div></div>

I disagree, 29 points in 35 games shows that he has. I don't think you can chalk that up from being around elite players. There has to be some accountability on Tarasenko for being good in order to get those numbers. Even with 10 goals in 35 games that puts him on pace for at least 22 goals (something Wahlstrom has never accomplished). I disagree with your "fact" and think Tarasenko still has a few good years left in him.

Yes, I have heard of ageing curves, however, some players can defy the ageing curve better than others. Typically players with good pedigree and an important thing called the Stanley Cup. If you read through the thread you will see that I already mention Tarasenko is regressing but I think he will give the NYI more offensive production - which is what they lack rather than a player who "does the work" like Wahlstrom. Their GPG and PP is at the bottom of the league and Tarasenko could help with those categories more than Wahlstrom could.
Forum: Trade Machine ProposalsJan. 26, 2023 at 2:15 p.m.
Thread: Puljujarvi for Jones
<div class="quote"><div class="quote_t">Quoting: <b>GeneralLandro</b></div><div>Yeah for free, Jones is a fine 4th line guy and a great locker room guy here so there’s no point to deal him if we aren’t ‘projected to do well for the next couple of seasons’</div></div>

I suppose Anaheim could wait until the off-season to sign him but it will be more competitive. If they are interested and have the assets to acquire him now they might as well. It's no secret EDM is desperate to get rid of him so it would likely be for a bargain - like a 4th liner. If he ends up in Anaheim I could see him on the 3rd line with Lundestrom and get PP time. If he does well, once Silfverberg is gone he could move into the top 6 behind Terry and possibly PP1. Not bad for "a fine 4th line guy and a great locker room guy".
Forum: Trade Machine ProposalsJan. 26, 2023 at 1:57 p.m.
Forum: Trade Machine ProposalsJan. 26, 2023 at 1:50 p.m.
Thread: Tarasenko to NYI
<div class="quote"><div class="quote_t">Quoting: <b>Db1899</b></div><div>It would be nice if the mediocre Tarasenko could do that consistently. I thought he was a sniper? 10 goals in 35 games with top 6 min and elite linemates.</div></div>

I think Tarasenko has taken advantage of defensemen who are out of position more consistently than Wahlstrom ever will. That's why he has over 300 goals throughout his NHL career. Personally, it would be nice if Wahlstrom could average more than 12 minutes a season. I'd still consider Tarasenko to be a Sniper because he is effective from the perimeter, unlike Wahlstrom. I suppose you've never heard of a down year. He still has 29 points in 35 games making him an effective offensive player at the very least. Also, St Louis's GPG is currently ranked 19th in the league. So I wouldn't consider him being surrounded by elite linemates. I think you need to go back to school kid.
Forum: Trade Machine ProposalsJan. 26, 2023 at 12:18 p.m.
Thread: Tarasenko to NYI
<div class="quote"><div class="quote_t">Quoting: <b>Db1899</b></div><div>:tearsofjoy - entering the zone with possession, fending off a defender without losing the puck and beating coverage has a lot more to do with the goal than a pinch. Anyone who is higher up in hockey or does anything regarding stats would give Wahlstorm most of the credit for "driving the play"</div></div>

I'm not overly impressed by a player who knows how to "shake-off" a defensemen - I see it every night. Especially when that defensemen got caught in the neutral zone. Wahlstrom did the work but was able to do so because of the opposing defensemen's error. It was more of an error by the defense than a great play by the forward in my opinion. Both deserve credit but without the defensemen jumping into the play, Wahlstrom's work was for nothing. Anyone one who scout's has heard the saying "he knows when to jump into the play at the right time". If the defensemen isn't there he probably just cycles the puck. Terrible defense by the other team isn't being recognized.