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Forum:
Toronto Maple Leafs
17 hours ago
Thread:
Leafs 2023 2024 Season Discussion Part 7 - Shambles
<div class="quote"><div class="quote_t">Quoting: <b>RipNasty</b></div><div>I guess it all depends on how we do this year.</div></div>
The only scenario I would be okay with Keefe back as the coach would be a finals appearance. Yeah it's a high bar but...now we're in the later stages of this core's years and can't waste time with poor coaching choices/decisions.
Forum:
Toronto Maple Leafs
18 hours ago
Thread:
Leafs 2023 2024 Season Discussion Part 7 - Shambles
<div class="quote"><div class="quote_t">Quoting: <b>Leafsfan98</b></div><div>He got outcoached by the guy we've been complaining gets outcoached</div></div>
Excuse me what? LOL
Cooper did not get outcoached at all. Tampa outplayed the Leafs for most of that series but the Leafs got lucky at times.
I don't know what you were watching but playing rope-a-dope for 2 periods and finally getting your act together for the 3rd period and OT was anything but outcoaching.
Forum:
Toronto Maple Leafs
Yesterday at 10:05 a.m.
Thread:
Leafs 2023 2024 Season Discussion Part 7 - Shambles
<div class="quote"><div class="quote_t">Quoting: <b>aadoyle</b></div><div>Said when BOS made it 3-1 they go 6 or 7 as when there back is to the wall thats when TOR actually starts trying
Lets see
But for giggles what % you think PP is gonna end on
Currently were second last at 5.88, NSH just passed us lul
Whose worse LA at 0</div></div>
I think the PP will finish in this series where it's at right now. Despite playing with intensity and going into the tough areas, I don't think the PP improves much from here...especially if you consider Matthews may not play again in this series depending of course on what he's dealing with.
Is Matthews just dealing only with an illness? Or is it illness and more.
Forum:
Toronto Maple Leafs
Yesterday at 1:54 a.m.
Thread:
Leafs 2023 2024 Season Discussion Part 7 - Shambles
<div class="quote"><div class="quote_t">Quoting: <b>palhal</b></div><div>Either way, it was heck of a game. It makes you wonder why the Leafs can't play like that more often. Kinda like their winning streak in the west road trip without Reilly. Just go for it.</div></div>
<div class="quote"><div class="quote_t">Quoting: <b>aadoyle</b></div><div>Its whats so frustrating
Where was this game 1,3 and 4 lul
Play like this in those games dont matter whose in net or missing from the lineup lul
Now their PP and scoring ability is still anemic and a concern but yea better than just laying down and giving up</div></div>
Yep, consistency on starting on time, effort and getting to those tough areas to get those not so pretty goals.
I still don't have expectations for this team because this kind of performance just hasn't been there game in and game out.
Forum:
Toronto Maple Leafs
Mon. at 1:11 p.m.
Thread:
Leafs 2023 2024 Season Discussion Part 7 - Shambles
<div class="quote"><div class="quote_t">Quoting: <b>RipNasty</b></div><div>Edmonton's coaching hasn't worked either</div></div>
Yes...it hasn't but McDavid and Draisaitl still show up every game. That was the point. Your coaching is whatever it is but you still control your effort and your smarts but it doesn't seem like that's been the case with our core.
Forum:
Toronto Maple Leafs
Mon. at 12:57 p.m.
Thread:
Leafs 2023 2024 Season Discussion Part 7 - Shambles
<div class="quote"><div class="quote_t">Quoting: <b>Trickster</b></div><div>Why are people surprised that we lost because we couldn't score enough?
Not me, I called it before the season started that we lost alot of goal scoring but people argued we have the scoring and needed other things to help the scoring come alive.
Proof is in the pudding
I'll admit Domi, Bertuzzi, and Reaves all played better than I thought they might in the regular season however not enough went it matters.
Yes our core group failed to show up yet again but that is not new
Fire Keefe
Trade Marner
Move on from Samsonov
Add new bodies and hope the new additions are enough to spark change, the only other option is to rebuild and gift some other teams some amazing players.
The sell on the Marner trade to me is simple.
Tell him we can't afford you on a new deal give us chance recoup something for you while we can and you can start over somewhere else</div></div>
What player(s) are you thinking of here? In the Marner trade that is.
Forum:
Toronto Maple Leafs
Mon. at 12:56 p.m.
Thread:
Leafs 2023 2024 Season Discussion Part 7 - Shambles
<div class="quote"><div class="quote_t">Quoting: <b>RipNasty</b></div><div>McDavid is the best player in the world. He can make something out of nothing more than anyone else. However they also have the luxury of playing in a much weaker division. LA is not Boston, Tampa or Florida.
Comparing Edmonton and TO is a bad comparison. Because Edmonton goes as far as McDavid takes them and eventually they will take on a team with a defenceman who can slow McDavid down and then the Oilers lose. Happens every year.</div></div>
The Edmonton/Toronto thing was comparing coaching which I pointed out but you ignored that anyway..cool, whatever.
Marner gets paid like a top player in this league so will and should be compared to other top players as well. It comes with the territory.
Forum:
Toronto Maple Leafs
Mon. at 1:58 a.m.
Thread:
Leafs 2023 2024 Season Discussion Part 7 - Shambles
<div class="quote"><div class="quote_t">Quoting: <b>NorthernLeafsFan05</b></div><div>It's not like he's going to be relied on as 2C for the rest of his tenure in Toronto. He would be a very good 3C or even 2LW. Not sure why we are in such a big rush to move on from a great leader and a key player.</div></div>
JT has lost all of the very little speed he had. In this league ya gotta have guys who can keep up with the pace of the game/players.
I'm all for giving him a respectable goodbye, but yeah time to move on.
Forum:
Toronto Maple Leafs
Mon. at 1:53 a.m.
Thread:
Leafs 2023 2024 Season Discussion Part 7 - Shambles
<div class="quote"><div class="quote_t">Quoting: <b>RipNasty</b></div><div>I watched some of the jets game today. And comparing their style vs TO's is ridiculous. They skate so fast and pressure you in waves. TO is predictable. They cycle in the offensive zone and slowly. Sure it works in the regular season but in the playoffs. Teams figure it out, keep us to the outside and then we can't score. And Keefe does nothing to adjust. Like zero rush chances with this system. The PP is also predictable as well.
It's systems stuff and adjustments need to be made to attack what the opposing team gives us and that doesn't happen. So it's hard to pin the blame on the core. They have produced, not enough to mask the flaws on the team obviously but they have produced. And that production has come in spite of the poor game planning and coaching.</div></div>
Notice that I named players from many different teams and could have kept going on with that list. But anyway...
I have a comparable for you. From strictly a coaching point of view, Toronto and Edmonton were similar in that Keefe and Woodcroft. I feel similarly about Woodcroft to how I feel about Keefe but the difference has been is McDavid and Draisaitl have been showing up regardless of who is coach.
We'll just have to agree to disagree with the discussion of core guys making a difference.
Forum:
Toronto Maple Leafs
Sun. at 8:49 p.m.
Thread:
Leafs 2023 2024 Season Discussion Part 7 - Shambles
<div class="quote"><div class="quote_t">Quoting: <b>RipNasty</b></div><div>I am excusing no one.</div></div>
I know you (like I) want Keefe fired and wanted him gone at least a year ago if not longer but the coach stuff aside, this core of players has NOT done enough over the 3-4 years. The coach stuff is what it is but need to expect more and better out of the core.
When you compare this core to other top players in the playoffs (McDavid, Draistl, MacKinnon, Makar, Zabinejad, Aho, the list can keep going) what the Leafs are getting out of these guys is not nearly enough.
It's okay to admit that, I promise.
Forum:
Toronto Maple Leafs
Sun. at 3:09 a.m.
Thread:
Leafs 2023 2024 Season Discussion Part 7 - Shambles
<div class="quote"><div class="quote_t">Quoting: <b>NorthernLeafsFan05</b></div><div>Also, leave it to Keefe to not adjust until we've already dug ourselves a ginormous hole. The Leafs aren't coming back from a 3 - 1 deficit against the Bruins.
We say this every offseason, but it's more true now than it ever has been; change <strong><em>needs</em></strong> to come. I cannot stand the thought of having to watch another season of Sheldon Keefe hockey, or the Guy Boucher Powerplay, or the Mike Van Ryn Man-on-Man defensive structure. I don't want to see a single familiar face behind the bench next season. I also don't want to see Samsonov between the pipes, he's too inconsistent and the lows are far too low with him.
It's also startling that the Leafs would ever consider trading Marner. This UFA crop is super weak and that money we'd be saving wouldn't be put to great use. Plus, it's Mitch Marner we are talking about. He's our 2nd best player and a crucial part of this team. You want to know why he doesn't show up in the playoffs? Because Keefes system is dog s***. That's the exact same reason why the other big guys also disappear in the playoffs.
All of this being said, we won't see changes this offseason. Keefe will be the headcoach next season, and the roster will probably be IDENTICAL, just without Bertuzzi and a new RHD.
This team could be so good but we are wasting our contention window by employing a bunch of bumbling idiots to run the show behind the bench. Our blueline contributes next to nothing offensively and also doesn't DEFEND. Sick of this same old song and dance.</div></div>
Did you (or anyone else here) watch the first intermission of the HNIC broadcast?
It's worth watching because Bieska showed 3 different clips of the Leafs lining up for a face-off during a PP in the first period and he basically pointed out that Keefe really doesn't have a system that works.
Now that was only 3 instances..imagine what Bieska would come up with if he had more time in that segment.
That segment was for those who think Keefe is an "okay" coach. Like fire this guy already geeze!
If you have access to the segment, I recommend going and watching it. It's good insight into what's going on.
Forum:
Toronto Maple Leafs
Sat. at 9:21 a.m.
Thread:
Leafs 2023 2024 Season Discussion Part 6 - Nearly Playoffs
<div class="quote"><div class="quote_t">Quoting: <b>aadoyle</b></div><div>BOS is getting almost half of its goals via their special teams
BOS PP is running at 50%, 5 of BOS 11 goals this series have come from it. So I guess the gifting is us gifting them PP's
So far the biggest issue this series is TOR special teams have been a disaster to where every time they take a PP its 90% likely not to score and their PK is so bad might as well just make it 1-0 before guy skates to the box
The other is when they are struggling to score more than 2 goals even with 4 forwards making almost 50m thats not acceptable (Yes I know ones hurt but that amplifies the issue). Basically its to where Sammy or any goalie has to either shutout BOS or allow just 1 goal or they lose. Game 2 might as well be a miracle with the fact they got 3 goals lul
No team is winning with a 9% PP or a 50% PK and for the so called goalie problem last 2 games = 2.59gaa and a 0.919sv that is far from the main problem lul. If anything should be up 2-1 if you could score goals like yah supposed to
Even Dangle mentioned that
https://www.youtube.com/shorts/4d0aN-hD75Q
Big boyz combined have 2 goals and 5 points not good
Look how TOR beat TBL
7-2
4-3
5-4
2-1
Game 3 and 4 were multi deficit comebacks lead by Matthews, Marner, etc
We need this kind of scoring from this team especially the big boyz
Gimmie a 5-2 win Saturday Matthews 2 goals, Marner 1 PP goal, Robertson a goal and Kampf as it's do or die</div></div>
Again, all fair points but you just ignored the gifting of 1 goal every game.
About Matthews, game 2 has been his best game so far. In game 3 he was okay but not like he was in game 2.
I don't know if you guys are watching the other series but basically what I'm seeing there is core guys in those series are showing up every game win or lose. I can't claim that for the Leafs.
Forum:
Toronto Maple Leafs
Sat. at 1:51 a.m.
Thread:
Leafs 2023 2024 Season Discussion Part 6 - Nearly Playoffs
<div class="quote"><div class="quote_t">Quoting: <b>aadoyle</b></div><div>Game 2 he didnt allow 3 and again in game 3 if this team converted 2 of 5 of those PP's they would win lul
Cant be going oh if Sammy does not allow 3 what if he allows 2 then what? This team 9 of 10 has only scored 2 goals we gonna hope they bring back tied.
Again goaltending is the least of our concerns. Big 4 barely showing up, not being able to score more then 2 goals consistently despite the forward investment, and our special teams being ice cold is the real problems here
What team is winning a seroes with a 9% PP and a 50% PK
No wonder your allowing 3 goals if your opponent scores on almost every PP it gets
How about start not allowing PP goals and start scoring on yours then see what happens lul</div></div>
All your points are fair but also the goaltending can't gift Boston one goal every game as well.
If Boston keeps getting gifted goals, no chance the Leafs are winning this series. If the core guys don't show up for the entire game, every game, Leafs are not winning.
You can only overcome these things occasionally, not 3-4 times in a series.
Forum:
Toronto Maple Leafs
Sat. at 12:05 a.m.
Thread:
Leafs 2023 2024 Season Discussion Part 6 - Nearly Playoffs
<div class="quote"><div class="quote_t">Quoting: <b>CameronSquires</b></div><div>Should Woll start tomorrow night?
Should there be any roster changes?
Will Willy be back?
Will the leafs win?</div></div>
I think it's time to see what Woll can do.
I hope Willy is back but at the same time I'm not sure what everyone is expecting out of him considering he's not at game speed coming into the game.
Forum:
Toronto Maple Leafs
Thu. at 6:08 p.m.
Thread:
Leafs 2023 2024 Season Discussion Part 6 - Nearly Playoffs
<div class="quote"><div class="quote_t">Quoting: <b>aadoyle</b></div><div>
But yea this is something new president of MLSE should talk about with the board and stuff. Look what Masai was able to do with Raptor culture and ****. Tickets aint super cheap but dam fans go wild for em. I bet he fought for affordable pricing, Shanahan or someone should do the same.
As ScotiaBank cant become a Morgue lul</div></div>
Raptors tickets are just more affordable and that's fact because I have been to at least 1 Raptors game a year. You wouldn't catch me at a Leafs game because the ticket prices sky high.
It has nothing to do with Masai but everything to do with greed. MLSE knows they can charge whatever for Leafs tickets and get away with it...it's not quite the same with the Raptors.
Forum:
Toronto Maple Leafs
Apr. 25 at 1:54 a.m.
Thread:
Leafs 2023 2024 Season Discussion Part 6 - Nearly Playoffs
<div class="quote"><div class="quote_t">Quoting: <b>aadoyle</b></div><div>Also
https://twitter.com/Bonsie1951/status/1783316265290903980
Man I feel asleep a few times as thats the vibes I got from the crowd. I heard better reactions from Buffalo
Leafs should go play there the Hamilton people be better</div></div>
It's not about "better" because the truth is the hardcore Leafs fans can't afford to even be in the nosebleeds section since ticket prices are so expensive. It's all corporate people mostly and getting them to cheer on the team is like trying to milk a rock.
I can't even remember the last time I was at Scotiabank Arena for a Leafs game.
At least Raptors games still have some affordable tickets depending on the team in town to face them.
Forum:
Toronto Maple Leafs
Apr. 25 at 1:47 a.m.
Thread:
Leafs 2023 2024 Season Discussion Part 6 - Nearly Playoffs
<div class="quote"><div class="quote_t">Quoting: <b>aadoyle</b></div><div>Its crazy how in FEB PP was almost unstoppable and then in March it fell off so bad and stayed the same in April lul
And you have
Matthews, Marner, JT, Willy, ETC.</div></div>
The thing is that the Leafs love their tic tac toe PP set plays and that works some of the time in the regular season but come playoff time teams and players in general cut down on mistakes and these kind of tic tac plays are not available.
The answer to having a good PP is to get those grindy/gritty type plays that are much harder to defend around the net.
Forum:
Toronto Maple Leafs
Apr. 23 at 4:33 p.m.
Thread:
Leafs 2023 2024 Season Discussion Part 6 - Nearly Playoffs
<div class="quote"><div class="quote_t">Quoting: <b>aadoyle</b></div><div>I know people using stats to attack Marner dont
The moment we see Ilya Lybushkin second in XGF shoot em into the sun
Marner's been fine this series. He's taking on the defensive assignments, he's been fine, dont be silly
</div></div>
Fine is not good enough. If the Leafs want to have tangible playoff success, Marner has to be way better than fine.
When you make 10-11 sheets a year, that comes with added responsibilities, added pressures and yeah he's going to get critiqued moreso than the non core players.
He pits the media and fans as if what people say control his play. Go out and play, show why you're a top player in this league WHEN IT MATTERS.
Matthews really brought it in way last night that I haven't seen before and it refreshing to see. Good on him!
Forum:
Toronto Maple Leafs
Apr. 23 at 1:44 a.m.
Thread:
Leafs 2023 2024 Season Discussion Part 6 - Nearly Playoffs
<div class="quote"><div class="quote_t">Quoting: <b>aadoyle</b></div><div>To me put him with Matthews next year. We cant bring back Bertuzzi anyway if we want to improve this Dcore why cant he play with him
Like if Robertson had 14 goals and 13 assists for 27 points in 56 games if we give him more mins and he plays all 82 games I could see a 20-25 goal 50 point guy easily
Can apply the same to McMann (when healthy) and other guys one day.</div></div>
I like this idea. Also..consider how Robbie will look under a different coach. Actually that can be applied to all the young players on this team.
Forum:
Toronto Maple Leafs
Apr. 23 at 1:41 a.m.
Thread:
Leafs 2023 2024 Season Discussion Part 6 - Nearly Playoffs
<div class="quote"><div class="quote_t">Quoting: <b>Saskleaf</b></div><div>Good win all around, if they can play like that for the rest of the series I think they can pull off the win here. Definitely don’t want to get overconfident but if they play like we know they can, they got this.</div></div>
Yep, that we can agree on. Problem is, that doesn't happen every game.
I'm gonna go one step further and say Matthews has to build on this effort tonight especially when you consider Marner really hasn't done much in this series so far.
As for the goaltending...well, playing like this will really help both goalies and will need both IMO.
Forum:
Toronto Maple Leafs
Apr. 21 at 9:00 a.m.
Thread:
Leafs 2023 2024 Season Discussion Part 6 - Nearly Playoffs
<div class="quote"><div class="quote_t">Quoting: <b>NorthernLeafsFan05</b></div><div>Going to start manifesting it now, I need Juuse Saros to be a Leaf in 2024 🤞🤞</div></div>
Saros might have made a save on one of those turnovers but to think he would save them all is silly.
Need to cut down on turnovers and mental mistakes. Yes, gotta be physical but if you're taking yourself completely out of the play, the hit is unnecessary.
Also shots vs high danger chances. Getting shots on goal is good but there just wasn't enough high danger chances.
Forum:
Toronto Maple Leafs
Apr. 21 at 8:45 a.m.
Thread:
Leafs 2023 2024 Season Discussion Part 6 - Nearly Playoffs
<div class="quote"><div class="quote_t">Quoting: <b>aadoyle</b></div><div>Also forgot to say I know people yell at the goalie but your on the ball with it
Goal 2 who some calls the backbreaker
Dangle on his review highlighted something that should be embarrassing
5 leafs are back against Debrusk and he wins the puck battle to Carlo and its in but even before that 2 giveaways lead to that chaos.
If we continue gifting Boston grade A chances like that to where Sammy has to go SOTY to stop it book the golfcourse were done. He might catch one or two of those but yea No goalie is stopping it all the time. The silliness with Woll needs to stop he also struggled vs. BOS and same results lul
Game 2 they better play much better especially the Matthews line otherwise were not going anywhere.
Not worried we saw this last year and Sammy in the end outdueled Vasi. But they need to play much smarter and support him and he just needs to be good and make the saves when needed no need to go fancy</div></div>
Yep. I know a few of us here feel that if Woll was in net things would be different but strictly from how the team had turnovers and just mental mistakes, Woll is not going to save the team from that.
Already said it but the Leafs don't have the luxury to play as loose as they did in game 1.
Also, Keefe please...take Rielly off the PP and put Liljegren in.
Forum:
Toronto Maple Leafs
Apr. 21 at 1:50 a.m.
Thread:
Leafs 2023 2024 Season Discussion Part 6 - Nearly Playoffs
<div class="quote"><div class="quote_t">Quoting: <b>aadoyle</b></div><div>Reminds me of last year game 1 honestly everything went wrong. One diff PP scored twice lul</div></div>
The PP tonight was aweful but what else is new? After watching the PP, someone said to me jokingly "looks like we are in playoff form" and man...the feeling just sucked.
Forum:
Toronto Maple Leafs
Apr. 21 at 1:45 a.m.
Thread:
Leafs 2023 2024 Season Discussion Part 6 - Nearly Playoffs
<div class="quote"><div class="quote_t">Quoting: <b>fangm</b></div><div>If you think everyone was just bad then we watched a different game. Clearly there were issues but the Leafs out shot and out hit Boston. Moneypuck has the expected goals at 7.4 to 3.7 in favour of Toronto.
The lesson I take is that we need more of what we got from the first line. Boston was doing the same **** but since everyone does it nobody gets called. On Toronto it stands out when Domi or Bert do it cause nobody else does.
Also the two high sticks are complete flukes, wouldn't read into it.
In terms of the goalie. If it's going to be a tight checking defensive game then we need Woll. Sammy will give you the brilliant save that Woll won't but he also lets in a bunch of ****ty screenshots like 2 of the goals today that Woll rarely allows. I'd rather give up the 1 goal on a crazy play that Sammy would save and get stability that this team didn't have this game. That 2nd goal was a backbreaker. Never goes in on Woll.</div></div>
Early in the first period the Leafs were keeping up with the play but as soon as the unnecessary hit by Reaves and the pinch by Edmundson at the same time the Bruins carried the play.
These goalies we have can make routine saves but as soon as the D or forward group make mistakes, all bets are off. The goal where the Boston player was able to get to Sammy without a Leafs player between him and Sammy is just bad defense. If there's going to be more chances like this one in the series, forget the game no chance at winning the series.
As for Matthews and the talk about shots vs shot attempts, bottom line is the stars have to score. It's why they get the big bucks and if the stats line is going to be zero, zero, zero, good luck winning anything.
Forum:
Toronto Maple Leafs
Apr. 17 at 5:38 p.m.
Thread:
Leafs 2023 2024 Season Discussion Part 6 - Nearly Playoffs
<div class="quote"><div class="quote_t">Quoting: <b>Leafsfan98</b></div><div>I mean, look at Hyman... He's doing just fine taking the same abuse, look at Bunting and there are others</div></div>
Yeah I don't know Hyman's age but he's not 35-36 and generally at those ages is when these types of players really drop off. It's what I was thinking of when imagining a long term deal for Bertuzzi.
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