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PuckShmuck87

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Forum: Armchair-GMJan. 30, 2023 at 7:57 p.m.
Thread: STL Blues - Time to rebuild
<div class="quote"><div class="quote_t">Quoting: <b>Timmins_Is_Eating_Tims</b></div><div>Did you mean to add Carolina first to the Kyrou trade. Goodrow and Blais are more like cap dumps. I think you could get a 2nd as well without the first round pick</div></div>

I appreciate your response. I’m really not sure how Kyrou is perceived outside our market. Anyway, I’m just throwing ideas out there to see what might move the needle. Kyrou is going to be a perennial All-Star, but he’s a complimentary piece to a competitive roster. That’s not the Blues. Building around skill rarely producers winners. A perfect example 5hats close to home: Brett Hull played in STL for 11 years and never made the conference finals, but won a Cup with Dallas and another in Detroit. I th8nk Kyrou is that kind of player.
Forum: Armchair-GMJan. 26, 2023 at 10:15 p.m.
Forum: Armchair-GMJan. 26, 2023 at 8:19 p.m.
Thread: STL Blues - Start with the D
<div class="quote"><div class="quote_t">Quoting: <b>mokumboi</b></div><div>I have no earthly clue where you imagine I said or implied anything like that.</div></div>

No worries. It's all good. Although I disagree with some of your opinions, I appreciate your passion for the sport.

I'm older, retired, don't play or coach anymore, but still officiate. I love the sport. I love watching the highlight reels as much as anyone, but I feel that the real human experience is epitomized by the playoffs. To me, not going deep into the playoffs is failure and the Blues have only been to the conference finals once in the last 50 years. Anyway, my opinions have evolved over the years and, although few may agree with me, I think that history is on my side. But it really doesn't matter. This conjecture is fun and I'm lucky to have the time to do it. Stay well.
Forum: Armchair-GMJan. 26, 2023 at 7:13 p.m.
Thread: STL Blues - Start with the D
<div class="quote"><div class="quote_t">Quoting: <b>mokumboi</b></div><div>Holy crap. It may be time for therapy, man.

1 - Hull and Kyrou are nothing alike as players. Kyrou carries the puck and can act as playmaker. Hull liked to arrive late for one-timers. Seriously, nothing alike.

2 - You keep going on about unwillingness to backcheck and all sorts of other things he has been doing quite well since November. The guy has like 220 NHL games and is headed for a second straight PPG season. AND he delivered goals in the playoffs. I'm honestly not sure what you're on about.</div></div>

I deeply appreciate your heartfelt concern, but I'm not the one who is delusional. If you think you can win anything without defense, and that's what this is about, you're . . . confused. Furthermore, as we all know, you eave to give to get. Picture trading Shanahan for Pronger sans somebody banging a teammate's wife. And yes, I know, we're not talking Shanahan and pronger here, but you are trading an elite forward for an elite defenseman.
Forum: Armchair-GMJan. 26, 2023 at 3:59 p.m.
Thread: STL Blues - Start with the D
<div class="quote"><div class="quote_t">Quoting: <b>TheEarthmaster</b></div><div>They still had elite talent at every position for that run. After Berube left, Pietrangelo and Tarasenko went on career high offensive sprees, with Pietrangelo having 9 goals in 45 games, Tarasenko with 22 goals in 39 games. Parayko was an elite shutdown D. O'Reilly was an elite shutdown defenseman. And Binnington came out of nowhere.

But also... the Blues sucked for a lot of that season! It took an ECHL goalie coming out of nowhere to get that team over the hump. That's not a sustainable pathway for success. I won't deny that the Blues won a lot more based on depth than maybe other contenders did, but that's not a playoff run you can replicate. And it still relied on high end talent scoring a lot to get them into that position.</div></div>

Sorry, but where did Berube go?
Forum: Armchair-GMJan. 26, 2023 at 3:07 p.m.
Thread: STL Blues - Start with the D
<div class="quote"><div class="quote_t">Quoting: <b>TheEarthmaster</b></div><div>Yeah the Blues' defense is bad. That's obvious. No argument here.

Kyrou's been one of our best forwards all year. I have no problem with his contract or his play. I do not understand where this criticism is coming from. If you want to build a competitive roster, don't you want a guy whose highly skilled that works well on a competitive roster? Don't you want that guy cost controlled for the next 8 years? Who wouldn't want prime Brett Hull on their contending team? "He's like Brett Hull and that's bad", what an insane thing to say.

Even if you're right about Kyrou, retaining money on him from the next eight years is an extremely shortsighted thing to do. What you've done- retaining money on four contracts- is actually illegal to do under the CBA. There's a limit of 3. You don't want that one spot wasted for the next 8 years.

I just don't understand your plan. The reason to go get Chychrun is to get a cost controlled very good defensemen for a team that's competitive now but mostly capped out. You go get Chychrun, but the team is not competitive. Jake Neighbours is your 2LW. Noel Accari is your 2RW. You've got cap space, but you don't have any extra picks coming up the way and you have like 8 players playing above where their talent level is.

Like I said, the defense is better, but you've weakened the forward group so much in pursuit of a better defense that the team is still bad. It's just worse in a different way. The Blues have an okay forward group, a bad defense and a bad goalie. Now they have an okay defense group, a bad forward group and a bad goalie. Nothing has fundamentally changed with all this trading.</div></div>

BTW - you only retain salary on his current contract which expires at the end of this year, not eight.
Forum: Armchair-GMJan. 26, 2023 at 3:05 p.m.
Thread: STL Blues - Start with the D
<div class="quote"><div class="quote_t">Quoting: <b>TheEarthmaster</b></div><div>I think K'Andre Miller is a very very good defensemen and I would love to have him on the Blues.

The Blues are not giving up Kyrou for him. That's absolutely ridiculous. It's more ridiculous to retain one million on him for the next eight years. Kyrou is here for the long run.

The defense is somewhat better but we're so weak up front now that it doesn't matter at all. All of this is just not worth it. The Blues need to find undervalued defensemen to roll the dice on, not pay up big for the hot name</div></div>

<div class="quote"><div class="quote_t">Quoting: <b>TheEarthmaster</b></div><div>Yeah the Blues' defense is bad. That's obvious. No argument here.

Kyrou's been one of our best forwards all year. I have no problem with his contract or his play. I do not understand where this criticism is coming from. If you want to build a competitive roster, don't you want a guy whose highly skilled that works well on a competitive roster? Don't you want that guy cost controlled for the next 8 years? Who wouldn't want prime Brett Hull on their contending team? "He's like Brett Hull and that's bad", what an insane thing to say.

Even if you're right about Kyrou, retaining money on him from the next eight years is an extremely shortsighted thing to do. What you've done- retaining money on four contracts- is actually illegal to do under the CBA. There's a limit of 3. You don't want that one spot wasted for the next 8 years.

I just don't understand your plan. The reason to go get Chychrun is to get a cost controlled very good defensemen for a team that's competitive now but mostly capped out. You go get Chychrun, but the team is not competitive. Jake Neighbours is your 2LW. Noel Accari is your 2RW. You've got cap space, but you don't have any extra picks coming up the way and you have like 8 players playing above where their talent level is.

Like I said, the defense is better, but you've weakened the forward group so much in pursuit of a better defense that the team is still bad. It's just worse in a different way. The Blues have an okay forward group, a bad defense and a bad goalie. Now they have an okay defense group, a bad forward group and a bad goalie. Nothing has fundamentally changed with all this trading.</div></div>

If you like watching Kyrou do his thing, good for you, I’m happy for you. I prefer watching competitive hockey in pursuit of a Cup. Hey, Brett Hull was an amazing shooter, but the Blues never came close to winning in his years here. I will admit that he was the central focus of the fan base, he sold a lot of tickets, every STL kid emulated him, and EC probably doesn’t get built without him. But, again, those teams never came close to a championship.

Now, DA has given Kyrou and Thomas the keys to the car while casting aside players that would have kept you competitive. Combine that with the gross mismanagement of the defense and you have the recipe for years of mediocrity. But, at least you’ll have some Kyrou highlights to watch instead of playoffs!
Forum: Armchair-GMJan. 26, 2023 at 2:42 p.m.
Thread: STL Blues - Start with the D
<div class="quote"><div class="quote_t">Quoting: <b>TheEarthmaster</b></div><div>Pointing at +/- in the year 2023. Couldn't be me.

"Give me a solid defense group and goaltending and forwards that work their asses off and you will go deep every year" you're describing the New York Islanders of the last four-ish years, who haven't won a damn thing the whole time they've been "competitive" despite going deep, if they make the playoffs at all. Ditto the teams that do actually make the cup final (Dallas in 2020, Montreal in 2021). They get creamed by the teams stacked with all-stars every time. The NHL has changed. You need high end talent at all positions to win, along with luck.</div></div>

<div class="quote"><div class="quote_t">Quoting: <b>TheEarthmaster</b></div><div>Pointing at +/- in the year 2023. Couldn't be me.

"Give me a solid defense group and goaltending and forwards that work their asses off and you will go deep every year" you're describing the New York Islanders of the last four-ish years, who haven't won a damn thing the whole time they've been "competitive" despite going deep, if they make the playoffs at all. Ditto the teams that do actually make the cup final (Dallas in 2020, Montreal in 2021). They get creamed by the teams stacked with all-stars every time. The NHL has changed. You need high end talent at all positions to win, along with luck.</div></div>

Yikes! And You forgot the 2019 Blues. No All-Stars, only three 20-goal scorers. Huge D who could skate. Heavy forecheck. Best friggin’ parade ever!
Forum: Armchair-GMJan. 26, 2023 at 2:37 p.m.
Thread: STL Blues - Start with the D
<div class="quote"><div class="quote_t">Quoting: <b>mokumboi</b></div><div>1 - I get that.

2 - Setting aside the whole benefits of having a Hull vs. lack of playoff success as a team thing, Kyrou is not even remotely one-dimensional or Hull-like, for that matter.

3 - Yeah, that's just not right. He's been our leading scorer by <em>eight</em>, leading rush threat, leading transition guy (also part of playing defense, mind you), leading zone entry guy, leading shot driver, our top PP weapon (sorely needed with Frenchy gone) and is second on the team in primary assists. And I'm kinda surprised you haven't noticed the sharp uptick in defensive effort he's made over the last 20-30 games. He's working now. And he still has more ceiling to grow.

Then there's the bargain his deal will be in a couple years. It's not happening, man. Maybe just try to appreciate him.</div></div>


Sorry, the scars are deep. You say he’s not like Brett Hull. I agree, he is not on Hull’s level, but the earmarks are so similar.

What is especially disquieting about Kyrou’s situation is that he has been playing under the tutelage of Berube and Ott for over four years, along side the likes of ROR, Steen, Schenn, and Perron, and yet the maturation of his game has been slow and minuscule. His comfort zone seems to be playing high end pond hockey, anything beyond that is a stretch. You say he’s made progress. I continue to see the horrendous turnovers, the soft forecheck, the failure to engage along the boards, and, most maddening given his speed, his unwillingness to back check. Now that Armstrong has guaranteed him $65M+, I cannot believe that he feels an real inclination to change his game.

You say I should just appreciate him. I don’t think so. I’m more of a team first guy. Teams win championships. Individuals win Wimbledon. And I have no use for tennis.
Forum: Armchair-GMJan. 26, 2023 at 1:14 p.m.
Thread: STL Blues - Start with the D
<div class="quote"><div class="quote_t">Quoting: <b>mokumboi</b></div><div>I like the frame of mind you entered into this with, but certainly not all the execution. And how are we still having people trying to trade Kyrou? I'm utterly baffled. Also, you can only retain on three contracts.</div></div>

<div class="quote"><div class="quote_t">Quoting: <b>mokumboi</b></div><div>I like the frame of mind you entered into this with, but certainly not all the execution. And how are we still having people trying to trade Kyrou? I'm utterly baffled. Also, you can only retain on three contracts.</div></div>



<div class="quote"><div class="quote_t">Quoting: <b>mokumboi</b></div><div>I like the frame of mind you entered into this with, but certainly not all the execution. And how are we still having people trying to trade Kyrou? I'm utterly baffled. Also, you can only retain on three contracts.</div></div>

I am not a Kyrou fan. I lived through 11 years of Brett Hull’s single-dimensional glory days (how do you rack up nearly 1400 pts. and end up only +23?!?!) and never even sniffed the conference finals. Kyrou is great for a shift or two each game, but the rest of the time he is killing you. Give me a solid defense corps and goaltending and forwards that work their asses off and you will go deep into the playoffs every year. Having All-Stars for the sake of random highlights is pointless.
Forum: Armchair-GMJan. 26, 2023 at 12:28 p.m.
Thread: STL Blues - Start with the D
<div class="quote"><div class="quote_t">Quoting: <b>TheEarthmaster</b></div><div>I think K'Andre Miller is a very very good defensemen and I would love to have him on the Blues.

The Blues are not giving up Kyrou for him. That's absolutely ridiculous. It's more ridiculous to retain one million on him for the next eight years. Kyrou is here for the long run.

The defense is somewhat better but we're so weak up front now that it doesn't matter at all. All of this is just not worth it. The Blues need to find undervalued defensemen to roll the dice on, not pay up big for the hot name</div></div>

Sorry, but I disagree. The Blues' defense is poorly contrived on a number of levels. Leddy and Krug make sense on competitive teams as complimentary pieces to an already solid D-corp. That's not the Blues. Kyrou is a great pond hockey player and, much like Brett Hull, is a single-dimensional forward with highly coveted skills that, again, only win on an already competitive roster. On a fragile roster such as the Blues, he's a detriment. His massive contract for his unproven and still immature game doesn't fit here, but could work great elsewhere.
Forum: Armchair-GMDec. 13, 2022 at 7:52 p.m.
Thread: Reversing the galaxy brain decisions
<div class="quote"><div class="quote_t">Quoting: <b>STLBlues17</b></div><div>Saad has been generally okay defensively (last year a big aberration) but Schwartz was so dominant. Tracking back lower than most wingers, forcing turnovers, skating pucks up ice, and then even making things hard on D with his forechecking.

Yeah perhaps things change. My guess would be Seattle takes Husso or Mikkola or Sanford (I think most people thought Vladdy was washed in summer 21 and Seattle’s analytics people likely wouldn’t touch Barbashev) but there’s no way to tell. A lot of bodies broke down after the cup too and perhaps Armstrong thought pre-back-injury Parayko would be a $9 million D rather than a $6.5 D and that’s why he felt the need to prepare differently. Idk, the point is that almost everything else that Armstrong could have done would be better than this product and it’s so frustrating watching all these beloved STL players finding success elsewhere when they feasibly all could still be here.</div></div>

I love the original post and I appreciate the intelligent observations the others have made. The Blues should not be in this predicament, but the Cup team has been gutted. Not a single All-Star on that roster, but they competed and they played for each other. Not really sure what the Blues can do now except rebuild. It was really, really fun while it lasted. So much wasted, unappreciated talent.