Apr 18, 2016
2nd Favourite Team
San Jose Sharks
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<div class="quote"><div class="quote_t">Quoting: <b>ItWasIn</b></div><div>You'd probably get more from NSH than just Johansen if such a deal was made. Maybe a pick swap, CGY moves up to 11th and NSH down to 19th.
-Both players are pretty solid in the circle, but again, Johansen is the superior defensive player. Again, I can live with less points out of a #1 C if it means he can shoulder the hard minutes and keep that line above water. A Tkachuk-Johansen-Lindholm line could be really solid.
- I know Monahan has actively tried to improve his overall game, I appreciate that. However, it really detracted from his offensive output. He's still got a long ways to go defensively, even if he's trying hard, if he's not producing offence he doesn't do enough for me. Lots will disagree with me, I just prefer Johansen to Monahan as a #1C. I totally agree, if he didn't get hurt NSH wins a cup.
- If Gaudreau gets traded, I think it's possible the Flames get futures. If Monahan is traded I think it would be something like this, just because it creates a really big hole in the lineup. A Gaudreau trade is easier to stomach for futures, because Tkachuk is a top line LW.</div></div>
Completely agree on Gaudreau, so much easier to replace a winger. Fair points on Johansen, I'm sure many would be split, I prefer Monahan and the possible improvement but yeah year 1 of defensive improvement came at a steep cost offensively.
I would have liked a Gaudreau trade with Philly for one of Konecny or Farabee but I think that time has come and gone with in the last year or 2.
<div class="quote"><div class="quote_t">Quoting: <b>ItWasIn</b></div><div>Again it comes down to who they are playing with. Monahan has spent essentially his whole career with an elite LW, NSH doesn’t have that, Josi and Weber are the only elite players that the Preds have.
I can live with less production if you’re “1C” can keep his head above water defensively and handle the tough matchups and doesn’t need to be sheltered</div></div>
Great post, it's hard to find legitimate Flames talk here. Johansen is the only realistic Monahan trade option I've thought about that doesn't involve a rebuild of sorts, which is never going to happen.
Side note - I'd do that Johnny trade all day for a young top 3 d-man if we can sign Hall or a top line forward to replace him.
My concern would be it ends up being lateral at best. Personally my view is: If you think you can win a cup in the next 2-3 years make the trade. If not you may be preventing yourself from winning one for the 5 years beyond that. I don't believe any move improves the team enough to win in that 2 years.
Why you could do it:
- They are almost equal players (I use a 3 year sample) at even strength, with Monahan a better scorer and Joho a better defender, Monahan scores more because he is a strong PP guy.
- Best reason to do it by far is Joho is a proven playoff performer and I think his injury cost Nashville a cup.
Here's why I wouldn't and probably why I can't see the Flames improving short term in any Monahan trade:
- As mentioned Monahan is a superior scorer in almost every way and he doesn't get any more offensive zone starts than Joho. Better goal scorer, more 1st assists, more high danger chances, etc. The one area Joho is better is zone entries where Gaudreau does most of the puck carrying for the Flames. I'm not sure I buy better linemates for Mony. Forsberg is an elite scorer and Arvidsson is a top High Danger scoring chance player (similar to Monahan). Those 3 had been a top possession line in hockey for 2-3 years and having multiple Norris caliber d-men on the ice is nice (Josi, Ellis, PK/Weber).
- Joho's work ethic is not ideal. It has been a consistent issue dating back to CBJ and is why he is not likely to get any better than he is now. Evolving Hockey's WAR rating shows Joho already beginning to decline for the last 3 years.
- Whereas Monahan is still improving and actively trying to. I.E. his physical/defensive changes this year. He has parts of a solid defensive game like faceoffs, takeaways, and hard backchecking but consistently makes coverage errors in his own end. Debatable whether he can learn that, but he's only 25 and puts the work in so I would say there is a chance and that would elevate him to a place Joho will never get to.
- Monahan's cap number is a huge bonus, particularly these days on top of being 2 years younger. (I don't believe you could get Nash to eat cap on 5 years)
Interested to hear your thoughts on this,
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