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Forum: Toronto Maple Leafs5 hours ago
Thread: Leafs 2023 2024 Season Discussion Part 7 - Shambles
<div class="quote"><div class="quote_t">Quoting: <b>Trickster</b></div><div>Why are people surprised that we lost because we couldn't score enough?
Not me, I called it before the season started that we lost alot of goal scoring but people argued we have the scoring and needed other things to help the scoring come alive.

Proof is in the pudding

I'll admit Domi, Bertuzzi, and Reaves all played better than I thought they might in the regular season however not enough went it matters.

Yes our core group failed to show up yet again but that is not new

Fire Keefe
Trade Marner
Move on from Samsonov

Add new bodies and hope the new additions are enough to spark change, the only other option is to rebuild and gift some other teams some amazing players.

The sell on the Marner trade to me is simple.
Tell him we can't afford you on a new deal give us chance recoup something for you while we can and you can start over somewhere else</div></div>

What player(s) are you thinking of here? In the Marner trade that is.
Forum: Toronto Maple Leafs5 hours ago
Thread: Leafs 2023 2024 Season Discussion Part 7 - Shambles
<div class="quote"><div class="quote_t">Quoting: <b>RipNasty</b></div><div>McDavid is the best player in the world. He can make something out of nothing more than anyone else. However they also have the luxury of playing in a much weaker division. LA is not Boston, Tampa or Florida.

Comparing Edmonton and TO is a bad comparison. Because Edmonton goes as far as McDavid takes them and eventually they will take on a team with a defenceman who can slow McDavid down and then the Oilers lose. Happens every year.</div></div>

The Edmonton/Toronto thing was comparing coaching which I pointed out but you ignored that anyway..cool, whatever.

Marner gets paid like a top player in this league so will and should be compared to other top players as well. It comes with the territory.
Forum: Toronto Maple Leafs16 hours ago
Thread: Leafs 2023 2024 Season Discussion Part 7 - Shambles
<div class="quote"><div class="quote_t">Quoting: <b>RipNasty</b></div><div>I watched some of the jets game today. And comparing their style vs TO's is ridiculous. They skate so fast and pressure you in waves. TO is predictable. They cycle in the offensive zone and slowly. Sure it works in the regular season but in the playoffs. Teams figure it out, keep us to the outside and then we can't score. And Keefe does nothing to adjust. Like zero rush chances with this system. The PP is also predictable as well.

It's systems stuff and adjustments need to be made to attack what the opposing team gives us and that doesn't happen. So it's hard to pin the blame on the core. They have produced, not enough to mask the flaws on the team obviously but they have produced. And that production has come in spite of the poor game planning and coaching.</div></div>

Notice that I named players from many different teams and could have kept going on with that list. But anyway...

I have a comparable for you. From strictly a coaching point of view, Toronto and Edmonton were similar in that Keefe and Woodcroft. I feel similarly about Woodcroft to how I feel about Keefe but the difference has been is McDavid and Draisaitl have been showing up regardless of who is coach.

We'll just have to agree to disagree with the discussion of core guys making a difference.
Forum: Toronto Maple LeafsYesterday at 3:09 a.m.
Thread: Leafs 2023 2024 Season Discussion Part 7 - Shambles
<div class="quote"><div class="quote_t">Quoting: <b>NorthernLeafsFan05</b></div><div>Also, leave it to Keefe to not adjust until we've already dug ourselves a ginormous hole. The Leafs aren't coming back from a 3 - 1 deficit against the Bruins.

We say this every offseason, but it's more true now than it ever has been; change <strong><em>needs</em></strong> to come. I cannot stand the thought of having to watch another season of Sheldon Keefe hockey, or the Guy Boucher Powerplay, or the Mike Van Ryn Man-on-Man defensive structure. I don't want to see a single familiar face behind the bench next season. I also don't want to see Samsonov between the pipes, he's too inconsistent and the lows are far too low with him.

It's also startling that the Leafs would ever consider trading Marner. This UFA crop is super weak and that money we'd be saving wouldn't be put to great use. Plus, it's Mitch Marner we are talking about. He's our 2nd best player and a crucial part of this team. You want to know why he doesn't show up in the playoffs? Because Keefes system is dog s***. That's the exact same reason why the other big guys also disappear in the playoffs.

All of this being said, we won't see changes this offseason. Keefe will be the headcoach next season, and the roster will probably be IDENTICAL, just without Bertuzzi and a new RHD.

This team could be so good but we are wasting our contention window by employing a bunch of bumbling idiots to run the show behind the bench. Our blueline contributes next to nothing offensively and also doesn't DEFEND. Sick of this same old song and dance.</div></div>

Did you (or anyone else here) watch the first intermission of the HNIC broadcast?

It's worth watching because Bieska showed 3 different clips of the Leafs lining up for a face-off during a PP in the first period and he basically pointed out that Keefe really doesn't have a system that works.

Now that was only 3 instances..imagine what Bieska would come up with if he had more time in that segment.

That segment was for those who think Keefe is an "okay" coach. Like fire this guy already geeze!

If you have access to the segment, I recommend going and watching it. It's good insight into what's going on.
Forum: Toronto Maple LeafsSat. at 9:21 a.m.
Thread: Leafs 2023 2024 Season Discussion Part 6 - Nearly Playoffs
<div class="quote"><div class="quote_t">Quoting: <b>aadoyle</b></div><div>BOS is getting almost half of its goals via their special teams

BOS PP is running at 50%, 5 of BOS 11 goals this series have come from it. So I guess the gifting is us gifting them PP's

So far the biggest issue this series is TOR special teams have been a disaster to where every time they take a PP its 90% likely not to score and their PK is so bad might as well just make it 1-0 before guy skates to the box

The other is when they are struggling to score more than 2 goals even with 4 forwards making almost 50m thats not acceptable (Yes I know ones hurt but that amplifies the issue). Basically its to where Sammy or any goalie has to either shutout BOS or allow just 1 goal or they lose. Game 2 might as well be a miracle with the fact they got 3 goals lul

No team is winning with a 9% PP or a 50% PK and for the so called goalie problem last 2 games = 2.59gaa and a 0.919sv that is far from the main problem lul. If anything should be up 2-1 if you could score goals like yah supposed to

Even Dangle mentioned that

https://www.youtube.com/shorts/4d0aN-hD75Q

Big boyz combined have 2 goals and 5 points not good

Look how TOR beat TBL


7-2
4-3
5-4
2-1

Game 3 and 4 were multi deficit comebacks lead by Matthews, Marner, etc

We need this kind of scoring from this team especially the big boyz

Gimmie a 5-2 win Saturday Matthews 2 goals, Marner 1 PP goal, Robertson a goal and Kampf as it's do or die</div></div>

Again, all fair points but you just ignored the gifting of 1 goal every game.

About Matthews, game 2 has been his best game so far. In game 3 he was okay but not like he was in game 2.

I don't know if you guys are watching the other series but basically what I'm seeing there is core guys in those series are showing up every game win or lose. I can't claim that for the Leafs.
Forum: Toronto Maple LeafsSat. at 1:51 a.m.
Thread: Leafs 2023 2024 Season Discussion Part 6 - Nearly Playoffs
<div class="quote"><div class="quote_t">Quoting: <b>aadoyle</b></div><div>Game 2 he didnt allow 3 and again in game 3 if this team converted 2 of 5 of those PP's they would win lul

Cant be going oh if Sammy does not allow 3 what if he allows 2 then what? This team 9 of 10 has only scored 2 goals we gonna hope they bring back tied.

Again goaltending is the least of our concerns. Big 4 barely showing up, not being able to score more then 2 goals consistently despite the forward investment, and our special teams being ice cold is the real problems here

What team is winning a seroes with a 9% PP and a 50% PK

No wonder your allowing 3 goals if your opponent scores on almost every PP it gets

How about start not allowing PP goals and start scoring on yours then see what happens lul</div></div>

All your points are fair but also the goaltending can't gift Boston one goal every game as well.

If Boston keeps getting gifted goals, no chance the Leafs are winning this series. If the core guys don't show up for the entire game, every game, Leafs are not winning.

You can only overcome these things occasionally, not 3-4 times in a series.
Forum: Toronto Maple LeafsThu. at 6:08 p.m.
Thread: Leafs 2023 2024 Season Discussion Part 6 - Nearly Playoffs
<div class="quote"><div class="quote_t">Quoting: <b>aadoyle</b></div><div>

But yea this is something new president of MLSE should talk about with the board and stuff. Look what Masai was able to do with Raptor culture and ****. Tickets aint super cheap but dam fans go wild for em. I bet he fought for affordable pricing, Shanahan or someone should do the same.

As ScotiaBank cant become a Morgue lul</div></div>

Raptors tickets are just more affordable and that's fact because I have been to at least 1 Raptors game a year. You wouldn't catch me at a Leafs game because the ticket prices sky high.

It has nothing to do with Masai but everything to do with greed. MLSE knows they can charge whatever for Leafs tickets and get away with it...it's not quite the same with the Raptors.
Forum: Toronto Maple LeafsThu. at 1:54 a.m.
Thread: Leafs 2023 2024 Season Discussion Part 6 - Nearly Playoffs
<div class="quote"><div class="quote_t">Quoting: <b>aadoyle</b></div><div>Also

https://twitter.com/Bonsie1951/status/1783316265290903980

Man I feel asleep a few times as thats the vibes I got from the crowd. I heard better reactions from Buffalo

Leafs should go play there the Hamilton people be better</div></div>

It's not about "better" because the truth is the hardcore Leafs fans can't afford to even be in the nosebleeds section since ticket prices are so expensive. It's all corporate people mostly and getting them to cheer on the team is like trying to milk a rock.

I can't even remember the last time I was at Scotiabank Arena for a Leafs game.

At least Raptors games still have some affordable tickets depending on the team in town to face them.
Forum: Toronto Maple LeafsTue. at 4:33 p.m.
Thread: Leafs 2023 2024 Season Discussion Part 6 - Nearly Playoffs
<div class="quote"><div class="quote_t">Quoting: <b>aadoyle</b></div><div>I know people using stats to attack Marner dont

The moment we see Ilya Lybushkin second in XGF shoot em into the sun

Marner's been fine this series. He's taking on the defensive assignments, he's been fine, dont be silly

</div></div>

Fine is not good enough. If the Leafs want to have tangible playoff success, Marner has to be way better than fine.

When you make 10-11 sheets a year, that comes with added responsibilities, added pressures and yeah he's going to get critiqued moreso than the non core players.

He pits the media and fans as if what people say control his play. Go out and play, show why you're a top player in this league WHEN IT MATTERS.

Matthews really brought it in way last night that I haven't seen before and it refreshing to see. Good on him!
Forum: Toronto Maple LeafsApr. 21 at 8:45 a.m.
Thread: Leafs 2023 2024 Season Discussion Part 6 - Nearly Playoffs
<div class="quote"><div class="quote_t">Quoting: <b>aadoyle</b></div><div>Also forgot to say I know people yell at the goalie but your on the ball with it

Goal 2 who some calls the backbreaker

Dangle on his review highlighted something that should be embarrassing

5 leafs are back against Debrusk and he wins the puck battle to Carlo and its in but even before that 2 giveaways lead to that chaos.

If we continue gifting Boston grade A chances like that to where Sammy has to go SOTY to stop it book the golfcourse were done. He might catch one or two of those but yea No goalie is stopping it all the time. The silliness with Woll needs to stop he also struggled vs. BOS and same results lul

Game 2 they better play much better especially the Matthews line otherwise were not going anywhere.

Not worried we saw this last year and Sammy in the end outdueled Vasi. But they need to play much smarter and support him and he just needs to be good and make the saves when needed no need to go fancy</div></div>

Yep. I know a few of us here feel that if Woll was in net things would be different but strictly from how the team had turnovers and just mental mistakes, Woll is not going to save the team from that.

Already said it but the Leafs don't have the luxury to play as loose as they did in game 1.

Also, Keefe please...take Rielly off the PP and put Liljegren in.
Forum: Toronto Maple LeafsApr. 21 at 1:45 a.m.
Thread: Leafs 2023 2024 Season Discussion Part 6 - Nearly Playoffs
<div class="quote"><div class="quote_t">Quoting: <b>fangm</b></div><div>If you think everyone was just bad then we watched a different game. Clearly there were issues but the Leafs out shot and out hit Boston. Moneypuck has the expected goals at 7.4 to 3.7 in favour of Toronto.

The lesson I take is that we need more of what we got from the first line. Boston was doing the same **** but since everyone does it nobody gets called. On Toronto it stands out when Domi or Bert do it cause nobody else does.

Also the two high sticks are complete flukes, wouldn't read into it.

In terms of the goalie. If it's going to be a tight checking defensive game then we need Woll. Sammy will give you the brilliant save that Woll won't but he also lets in a bunch of ****ty screenshots like 2 of the goals today that Woll rarely allows. I'd rather give up the 1 goal on a crazy play that Sammy would save and get stability that this team didn't have this game. That 2nd goal was a backbreaker. Never goes in on Woll.</div></div>

Early in the first period the Leafs were keeping up with the play but as soon as the unnecessary hit by Reaves and the pinch by Edmundson at the same time the Bruins carried the play.

These goalies we have can make routine saves but as soon as the D or forward group make mistakes, all bets are off. The goal where the Boston player was able to get to Sammy without a Leafs player between him and Sammy is just bad defense. If there's going to be more chances like this one in the series, forget the game no chance at winning the series.

As for Matthews and the talk about shots vs shot attempts, bottom line is the stars have to score. It's why they get the big bucks and if the stats line is going to be zero, zero, zero, good luck winning anything.
Forum: Toronto Maple LeafsApr. 17 at 9:40 a.m.
Thread: Leafs 2023 2024 Season Discussion Part 6 - Nearly Playoffs
<div class="quote"><div class="quote_t">Quoting: <b>aadoyle</b></div><div>With the season he had would be shocked if anyone gives 6m

He may have to sign another prove it as man for the first half he was lost</div></div>

<div class="quote"><div class="quote_t">Quoting: <b>Leafsfan98</b></div><div>Bert's not going to get to though... Not enough cap, I see Bert getting a 4.5-5 mill deal on a long term contract</div></div>

Even at 5-5.5 million (which I think he would settle for) on a long term deal is not something Leafs can do. Also with the style he and Domi play where it gets physical at times (specifically Bertuzzi in front of the net) these types of players don't age well.

This is why I think they will want long term deals and for them, this might be their last contract because of the above reasons.

Edit: Meant to also say that there's always a team willing to overpay in free agency. I don't on't need to provide a list of players and you don't even have to look beyond this team to see this.
Forum: Toronto Maple LeafsApr. 17 at 2:20 a.m.
Thread: Leafs 2023 2024 Season Discussion Part 6 - Nearly Playoffs
<div class="quote"><div class="quote_t">Quoting: <b>fangm</b></div><div>I agree that at times Sheldon is an easy target but having played to a high level I can say from what I see he is a really bad coach.

I'll give you a few reasons why I think this:

1. A common problem I see with the leafs (especially on the PP and in transition) is that they overthink everything. Their PP id actually at its best when individuals are chasing stats because then at least everyone is feeding Matthews or Knies or Bert or whoever is chasing the milestone/hatty/etc. I blame Keefe for this. If you read any "behind the scenes" on Keefe he's a massive strategists and he's know for studying other games, teams, sports and constantly proposing new ideas but rarely acting on them. Essentially the way he coaches (loads of thinking and strategizing with minimal action) is exactly how the team plays on the ice.

2. Team doesn't show up on time or for big games. Having played AAA to the point where teammates respect each other more than the coach (likely the situation in the Leafs room) one of the main things a coach needs to still be capable of doing in that environment is motivating the team. If he losses that control/respect then he is reliant on team members to do this. Some teams (like the early 2010s rangers had a strong leadership core and this was fine) but the Leafs don't have that and if Keefe isn't doing it then it seems nobody is (maybe this is changing we've seen Tavares and Rielly specifically be more engaged this year).

3. Lack of adjustments. O'Reilly essentially called him out for it last year but Keefe defaults back to certain players and combinations when the team struggles. Despite all his strategizing he doesn't rearrange his team to meet the tasks at hand, he rearranges them to what worked in the past. If things go south you'll see Rielly/Brodie, Mathews/Marner, Jarnkrok in the top 6, Lili's ice time down. This is just his default and it shouldn't be. He should be more flexible and adapt based on what is needed to win. Maybe that means that the Leafs trust their bottom 9 is better than Bostons given their depth issues so they load up Nylander/Matthews/Marner to make sure they win the top line matchup. Idk what the series will need but I'm pretty confident Keefe won't deliver.</div></div>

I've tried to convey some of the same things you have pointed out here but Idon't know if some of us are in agreement with these things.

Starting on time and inspiring the team to elevate their play are two things that have been a consistent problem under Keefe.


As for the playoffs matchup, Boston and Florida play similar enough in the ratty ways and I feel it didn't matter which team they'd play.

Start on time and handle the ratty situations smartly. But yeah..I'm not confident sadly.
Forum: Toronto Maple LeafsApr. 17 at 2:10 a.m.
Thread: Leafs 2023 2024 Season Discussion Part 6 - Nearly Playoffs
<div class="quote"><div class="quote_t">Quoting: <b>Leafsfan98</b></div><div>Why not:
Bert (4.5)-Matthews- Domi (3 mill)
McMann-JT-Marner
Knies-Holmberg-Willy
Dewar-Kampf-Reaves

Rielly-5.5 UFA defensemen
McCabe-Lilly (2.5 mill)
Benoit-3 mill defensemen
Niemela

Woll
Martin Jones type backup

Extras whom have the waiver exempt and can be brought up in case of emergency:
Hirvonen
Niemela
Riafali
Hildeby
Minten

CAP SPACE: 2.4 mill


It sounds like a good plan to me</div></div>

Your numbers for Bertuzzi are off, not because I think it's something I couldn't live with but because Bertuzzi is probably looking at 6 million/year on a long term deal. That's simply not something the Leafs can do.

As for Domi, sure maybe he can be talked into staying because his history as a kid in the city/team/building but I think he will want a long term deal as well...not sure that can be done.

As for a goalie, I don't think it's wise to go with a Martin Jones type goalie/contract. Woll still has to prove he can stay healthy...I'm skeptical that he can so spending on a goaltender is probably a necessity.
Forum: Toronto Maple LeafsApr. 13 at 2:49 a.m.
Thread: Leafs 2023 2024 Season Discussion Part 6 - Nearly Playoffs
<div class="quote"><div class="quote_t">Quoting: <b>aadoyle</b></div><div>U cant really blame Keefe when he's not in charge of the PP

Boucher is and in Feb PP was 50% but then March it just went south and while it has been a bit better for April its not substantial

And Rielly really aint the issue for the PP as through the years its been top 10 with him on unit 1, if anything this is just the setup and system needing adjusting once teams figure it out. As u can see the backpass to either Marner or Matthews eats 30 seconds off the clock and then they struggle to set up. Teams expect it and just wait. Whoever has it should just carry it not wait and drop pass

Article is a good read https://mapleleafshotstove.com/2024/04/01/why-did-the-maple-leafs-power-play-fall-off-a-cliff-in-march-a-look-at-the-game-tape/</div></div>

Keefe is the head coach. He takes the heat for everything because ultimately it falls on him to make the best decisions possible.

Do you think if Keefe disagreed on Rielly's use on the powerplay that he'd still be there? Absolutely not.

He has the last call on coaching decisions regarding of who is running the powerplay or penalty kill etc.

Who is the one answering the tough questions after games? It's not any of the assistants. There's a reason why.