Hedman hands down he's deserved it many times and has gotten snubbed to many times

I think all 3 deserve a lot of credit for how their teams finished. I feel Hedman should get it, but who knows. They may do the Bergeron thing with the Selke and just give Doughty the Norris again.

Hedmen wins, biggest snub is Josi, PK isn’t the best dman on his own team.... sorry, just my option.

Another big snub is Jones in Columbus, he’s a beast and the biggest reason Columbus was able to win the first two games in Washington he was able to shut down the caps for a bit.

Iike hedman too. He is great in both ends and he deserves it. I think carlsson had a great year and deserves a bit of love for this , klingberg too.

Can't agree with you, P.K has been far better than Josi. what makes you say Josi has been better?

Josi is also the captain and I think he played a better 200 foot game as PK is more offensive both are good I just the Josi is a little better in my option.

Just to give some narrative as to why it’s PK and not Josi is the way they are used. Josi is primarily used in the offensive zone and against teams second line. PK however is spends almost 80% of his time out against the other teams top offensive line, is used as the teams shut down defenceman and still puts up really good numbers. I think the craziest stat this year by any defenceman was Subban, he started 62% of his shifts in the defensive zone and still had the same offensive out put as elite defenceman should have.

John Carlson should win, runner up is P.K. Subban, and nobody else comes close.

To explain why, let's look at this little argument:



It's the Norris, not the Hart. Captaincy is irrelevant to who played better as a defenseman. 200 foot game, eh? Good point, but..... there's a stat for that.

Josi starts 9% more of his shifts in the offensive zone than Subban to end up with basically the same shot differential and basically the same offensive output (Subban had two more goals and four more assists, even though Josi got sheltered starts, meaning he got more opportunities to play an 80 foot game, while Subban was more likely to have to carry the mail to get anything done.

And speaking of sheltered starts, Hedman started 54% of his shifts in the offensive zone. He's winning an informal cap friendly poll based on no explanation

Carlson only started 48% of his shifts ahead of the red line, and, while he's known for his power play prowess, still had one more point at evens than sheltered hedman.

Let's make a table for the top ten in points, and see who had to actually get the puck out of danger to get anything done.

Name P OZSpct
Carlson 68 48.1
Klingberg 67 52.6
Burns 67 61.5
Ghost 65 57.5
Hedman 63 54.1
Karlsson 62 55.1
Doughty 60 51.3
Krug 59 65.2
Subban 59 42.5
Barrie 57 62.4

The Norris is about being the best defenseman. Offense is part of that, and nobody has won without being top ten among defensemen in points since Rod Langway (who took the Caps from being the worst expansion team in the history of sports to a perennial playoff club--no one this year achieved anything quite that amazing, so we'll stick with the top ten guys in points). Now, I know they don't usually vote based on these crazy "advanced stats," but now that they've been counting this stuff for several years, hockey journalists should look at it and easily understand: if you mostly go on the ice after the real defensemen got the puck over the red line and got a face off for you, then you are not the best defenseman in the NHL. That much should be completely obvious.

So the only two candidates I would even remotely consider are Carlson and Subban.

At that point it seems like it comes down to personal preference or other stats, but there are some big differences in their situations this year. Subban's partner on the blueline was another perennial honorable mention norris option.

Carlson didn't have a steady partner. He started the year with Brooks Orpik, but when Orpik's walker blew a wheel, Carlson skated with rookie and recent 7th round draft pick Christian Djoos. The Caps probably wanted to call up recent first round pick Lucas Johansen, but they were pretty tight up against the salary cap. At the trade deadline, the Caps gave Chicago a 3rd round pick for Michal Kempny, a 27 year old in his second year in the NHL, who then became Carlson's defense partner.

Nashville is a model of stability, which is a testament to what Subban, Josi, Ekholm and Rinne achieved last Spring in the playoffs. Washington, last summer, after another loss to the Penguins, lost Vegas' #1 defenseman (by Time on Ice, Schmidt) in the expansion draft. They lost New York's #2 defenseman by points, Kevin Shattenkirk in free agency. And the Caps last summer also lost Montreal's #2 defenseman by time on ice and Carlson's most frequent partner throughout his career, Karl Alzner, who immediately told a reporter it would be nice to finally have a chance to win the Stanley Cup.

Washington lost half of team's worth of defense last summer, and Carlson was paired with three different guys this season, including two of the least and one of the most experienced players in the NHL. He stepped up with a huge individual effort and led Washington to win their division over some pretty decent teams.

So, yeah, your poll is cute. Hedman's hair is cute. Have fun with that. The Norris trophy belongs to John Carlson this year.

Great minds think alike. Subban had the better year on paper. Carlson played half the year with Brooks Orpik, a quarter with Christian Djoos, and a quarter with Michal Kempny. And you're like, who?

He is the only other one of the top ten offensive defensemen to start most of his shifts behind the red line, and he scored more points than Subban despite playing with a revolving cast of awful defense partners, two of whom you haven't heard of and one of whom we all joke about.

Also, I call BS on your numbers: https://www.hockey-reference.com/players/s/subbapk01.html

Lol. Then why wasn’t he named a finelest?

It doesn’t matter that he should win and I agree that Carlson should win but he wasn’t named a finelest so he’s not even in consideration by the NHL. It’s Hedmans to lose and if he does it’s Doughty. Take that caps love somewhere else. Thanks.

Well, if they left off the best defenseman.... then I guess I vote for the only defenseman they included: P.K. Subban.

What a joke.

Not sure where you're getting your facts, but last year Subban spent 37% of his TOI against elite forwards, while Josi was out against elites 36% of the time. Subban's numbers were better in those minutes.

No way Carlson deserves it over those 3 guys....

It's a popularity contest, always has been.

I just wish I knew what conditioner Hedman uses.

Your stats are cute, your affirmations are cute but the trophy certainly does NOT belong to John Carlson.

Best defenseman? i guess Klingberg should have been there too then?

I think it's really close between Carlson and Subban. Let me reiterate that out of the finalists, I voted for PK Subban.

Obviously Subban played in tougher situations than Carlson, but he played with much better defensemen at his side, so I think that evens out. Carlson also scored more points than the crowd of guys who start most of their shifts ahead of the red line. I think Subban is a better hockey player in the middle of a better career but Carlson's season this year actually impresses me more because, even while I love to defend Orpik from a lot of the jokes people make about him on this board, he's a 37 year old tough guy who got zero goals and ten assists this year.

If I were in the NHL, I'd rather start 100% of my shifts in the defensive zone with Mattias Ekholm (https://www.hockey-reference.com/players/e/ekholma01.html) than start them all in the offensive zone with a #4-5 tough guy like Orpik (https://www.hockey-reference.com/players/o/orpikbr01.html). So even though Ek and Subban played more defense, I think Carlson did really well.

For reference, the last time Orpik was on the top pairing for most of the year, his defensive partner, Matt Niskanen, got 31 points on the season. That was in 2014-15 https://www.hockey-reference.com/players/n/niskama01.html

By the end of the year, Karl Alzner replaced Orpik on that pairing. Ask some Habs fans about having him on your top pair, maybe?

P.k did not spend the entire the season with Ekholm, i remember he played a big part of the year with Emelin before Ellis returned.

Hedman's partner was Stralman for most of the year, better than Orpik but still.

Yeah, Subban definitely outplayed Hedman. It is not remotely close.

People claiming that Nashville is the best team in the league forgot about Nashville with Weber being average.