What about ZaZa?

Doesn't Gabor play for the Sens, now?

What do you think an offer for Zaitsev might look like? Another big contract to take on but if you want a russian RHD... not as physical as a guy like Zadorov obviously, but doesn't mind throwing his weight around.

I imagine the Leafs would be open to a Vrana for Zaitsev swap. I also imagine that is asking a lot, also I don't think Zaitsev moves for anything other than a RHD.

Avs would not want to give up Picks and prospects for Zads. Hes a big cog to the teams current blue line and they wont be moving him anytime soon. You dont give up on 23 year old Dmen with his tool set after having a good development season

Your description of Avs fans is just trolling, stop it

We don't need either! Our defense is one of the best in the league. We don't need to sell our good young pieces for pieces we don't need unless it's a great return.

I don't know. Both teams are pretty hard against the salary cap, and Toronto wants to upgrade their defense, but I'm not offering any of Carlson, Orlov, or Niskanen, because I don't want Washington's defense getting worse. If Washington had infinite time to build for its next Cup run, trading Niskanen for Zaitsev gets them younger, but Niskanen led the playoffs in shots blocked, and scores more points than Zaitsev, so Toronto has to throw in a 1st to make that palatable, or else trade down one of their great wingers for Connolly. I don't think Leafs fans consider either. Leafs Nation is beg enough that any player you suggest them moving has fifteen fans who can't to explain that he's untouchable. I like that Zaitsev's contract has more years remaining and he's shown steady defense. I'd be willing to give up Kempny and Connolly to get him if that gets it done, but the Leafs are also kinda short on right shot defensemen, so that probably doesn't get it done unless you throw in Bowey, who has the highest ceiling of anyone in that trade, followed by Connolly, so again, I'd want the Leafs to give back a 1st pick.... which isn't something they want to hear if I'm the one asking for Zaitsev. So again, you probably end up looking back at who's underutilized relative to salary cap hit on the Caps roster and looking at Burakovsky for Zaitsev, and then letting the Leafs trade one of their many storied LHD for Justin Faulk, to make up the difference. That makes the Leafs' cap picture even worse next summer than it already was, but it does leave them able to trade Burakovsky and Faulk after they win the Cup, so I don't think they complain too much about it? For cap relief, and to get slightly better, long term, I think the best trade the Leafs could make would be Zaitsev for Bowey, but they would have to even it out with a 3rd or a 4th, because Bowey was 11th among rookie defensemen in even strength points, with a dozen, and had back to back 60 point years in juniors, and because making this trade keeps them from losing Kapanen or Marner next summer, without hurting their playoff chances next Spring. Again, the Caps need a high draft pick to wipe the egg off their faces, because Zaitsev is already in his prime and got 13 total points last year. I'd project Bowey to get about 24 at evens next year in Toronto's top four, and to easily add another dozen on their second power play unit. I'd much rather trade Djoos or Kempny, of whom Djoos at 23 has the higher ceiling, and equal chemistry with Carlson, and a lower cap hit.... but Tor are stocked at left D. I think the offer I'd open with is Kempny and a 4th for Zaitsev. Then you'd have to talk over Toronto's right handed shot depth chart, and try to figure out what you can throw in that helps them upgrade to a right shot guy for their power play, and you drop the fourth and add in Boyd and Vanecek, because Carolina needs more good prospects at center and goalie, and Boyd already has his name on the Cup, has great speed and some decent skill, but is 5th on the Caps' depth chart at left handed center and no longer waiver exempt?

How much more valuable is Zadorv than 23 year old Christian Djoos who was in the top ten in scoring among rookie defensemen and played every game on the way to winning a Stanley Cup?

I asked you that three times in the last thread, and you just kept posting diatribes of vitriol against Michal Kempny, who was no longer on the table.

I apologize for describing your behavior.

You didnt ask me anything so dont lie, I was having a conversation with someone else. Zads isnt untouchable but its a known commodity to the Avs blue line, brings some offense, has a nice base line of what he can do after 200 nhl games, and bring a big time physical edge.

Djoos had a nice rookie season but he got 14 points after some heavy heavy offensive zone starts. Zads plays a different game, used in a defensive role and still out produced Djoos. than him so on a team with already Barrie, Girard and Makar coming up, they dont need more offensive minded dmen. They are happy with the guy they have and arent in the business of selling off assets like this is some sort of game of NHL18 .

Ask yourself what are you offering to the Avs that they need, bc offering them something they already have doesnt temp teams. Christian Djoos is a nice player but he doesnt move the needle of why they would move a guy like Zads who they have spent time and assets to develop

This is spot on ^. And I was the one more against Kempny replacing Zadorov in that thread. I'll admit that Kempny is better on paper than I thought he was, but I still would rather have Zadorov because he fits COL's plan better and has a higher ceiling. (And again, I don't see why WSH would trade Kempny after he showed such good chemistry with their franchise defenseman).

My recurring point is that I don't see any way the Avs move Zadorov without knowing they're bringing in another young, defensive LHD. As far as I know, COL doesn't have any high-end LHD prospects (it's all RHD in Makar, Timmins, Meloche), so giving up an improving young LHD goes against COL's stage of the rebuild. @coga16 can correct me here if I'm wrong.

Thank you guys!!!! I felt like we were all shouting over each other in the other thread, and nobody even saw each other's questions. Thanks so much for answering! You, too, @coga16 !

Would a more two-way defenseman like recent first-round pick Lucas Johansen who just had a decent rookie year in the AHL help? Would a purely defensive defenseman prospect like Jonas Siegenthaler help?

As for chemistry with the Caps' franchise defenseman, I actually think that a Russian speaker like Zadorov could play really well with Orlov.

And I know that having Zadorov around is fun to show off to Buffalo, who aren't quite as satisfied with O'Reilly at the moment. But in the real NHL, I see COlorado as a team finishing up its rebuild and trying to add more talent long term, so it can keep making the playoffs and keep improving its long term outlook at the same time. I get that Kempny is old and somewhat unproven, but Zadorov, as good as his defense and hits are from last year, was a sieve before last year. So it is a little bit of a gamble, which player the Caps are getting. But I think the Caps are in a better position to gamble on an enigmatic Russian speaking player, wince they have three dependable Russian guys to help him navigate in an English speaking country, than the 'Lanche are right now.

So, with the understanding that Zadorov just had an awesome year on all fronts, I really appreciate you both taking the time to explain that an offer would not only have to match his value, but include one of Johansen or Siegenthaler, to get Colorado to the table. I'm still interested. What else ya need?

Honestly they probably are good and wouldn't move him unless they get a clear cut upgrade over him at the same age and cost controlled certainty. Avs are finally going in the right direction and wouldn't be selling off guys they know fit and work on the team on the chance it might be a lateral move.

They want to win as well and arent in the business of selling off young assets at this time. Its slowly coming together so they wont be taking risks in moving a guy like Zads at this moment unless they know for certain they got the better player that checks all those boxes for them

Avs have a lot of russians in him, Varly, Kamenev, and recently have brought over their draft picks in Mironov, Boikov, Shvyryov. Have Smironov Shmakov Kovalenko Zhuravlyov from the lastest drafts. Their head of scouting said once you have one russian you can get 2, once you have 2 you can get 3, once you have 3 then you open youselfs up to bringing guys over.
So the same with your chemistry comment. Zads brings value with how they have been tapping into the russian pipeline the past 2 drafts and guys are coming over bc of it.

Thank you so much for breaking that down for me! That really makes sense.

For whatever it's worth, my earlier trade offer centered on Andre Burakovsky, who, at 23, has 50 goals and 120 points, with almost none on the power play. And I threw in Kempny, a prospect, and a first. It was an insane overpaymen, because I remembered how awfully my "Orpik and Grubauer for Zadorov" conversations had gone before the deadline, but I had not understood quite what value Zadorov brought to Colorado, that Sakic wouldn't want to replace with a guy who, in Sakic years, is still in his playing prime.

It sounds like the Caps probably should stay with what they have, maybe trade Kempny for Zaitsev and a pick next summer to "help" Toronto, and then wait for Alexeyev to develop (1st round this year, also LHD, like Orlov. When are scouts going to start accepting that right handed players are valuable, too?).

Your explanation that Colorado are talking about building a team line by line, out of guys who work well with each other, and also drawing on different pipelines of talent that speaks different languages really makes sense, and now I see why a 23 year old with one good season could be untouchable.

I have no idea how realistic the Caps trading Burakovsky is. I hope they sign him long term and don't move him either, because whenever they play him with either of their top two centers, he seems to get a whole lot of points. Like, he outscored Matthews and Nash in the playoffs this year, in fewer minutes. He just doesn't do very well when he's a healthy scratch, and I have no idea how much the coaching change will affect that.

Zaitsev, in Toronto, has no offense to speak of, but about 200 hits a season and decent possession numbers. Any TML fans read this far? Anyone think the Leafs pounce on Djoos or Kempny, plus cap space, for Zaitsev and picks, and then trade an LHD and a forward for Faulk?

True, true, and true.....

But Zaitsev and a 3rd for Djoos or Kempny gets the Leafs an equally offense-less top-four defenseman (I'd predict Kempny to play like a #3 next year at 27, and Djoos to play like a #4 at 24), plus cap space to make a play for Faulk, and still keep an eye on the RFA situation. With the Leafs' fear of losing an RFA after a year, it's a dilemma which one they'd want more; the one who's better right now and signed for four years at 2.5M, or the one who's almost as good, and cheaper now, but will be another RFA next summer?

I mean, if you throw in a first, you can get Madison Bowey, who comes with more talent, a right shot, and more cap space, and who had back to back 60 point seasons in juniors, and got a cup of Tim's with Team Canada..... but short of Zaitsev and a 1st, I don't want to consider trading Bowey, and my guess is that TML waits another year to see how he develops before considering that deal, either.

Yeah it doesn't look like there is a good fit tradewise for these clubs. Since trading a first and Zaitsev for Bowey doesn't make a lot of sense since TO has Liljegren in the wings and he's got top pair RHD written all over him.

Fair enough. Bowey just scored more as a rookie than Haydn Fleury, but I'm not aware of any tattoos like that. Sounds kinda corny, acually.

@coga16 @tp47
Leafs are overvaluing Zaitsev.

Washington doesn't have any stay-at-home defensemen on their roster, below 26 years old, and even then, moving Orlov would not get me any closer to my fan-plan of building a better five-man Russian unit than the '90s Red Wings built around Fedorov and Larionov. The Caps' best stay at home defensemen last year were Niskanen, 31, and Orpik, four billion. We already tried to trade Colorado one of them. It didn't last. Djoos' zone starts were a product of being 23 on a Barry Trotz team. He was +13. Some other coaches would have put him in progressively more difficult situations, until they found a level where the NHL challenged him. Trotz doesn't like to rush young guys, and leaned pretty heavily on four billion year old Brooks Orpik all year long at left D. At midseason, Orpik and Carlson were the team's top pairing. For the last 2:22 of the season, Orpik and Niskanen stayed on the ice to protect a one goal lead. The zone starts Djoos got were what was available. But fair enough....

How about a combined offer of Brett Connolly (15 goals a year at 3R, former top ten pick, 25 years old, top five among playoff right wings in 2018 playoff goals, but can play either side. Quick skating, north-south guy with an accurate wrist shot; drafted ahead of Kuznetsov, and has the skills to play second line, but won't get that chance in Washington.

plus promising stay at home defenseman prospect Jonas Siegenthaler https://novacapsfans.com/2018/06/29/capitals-prospect-review-and-forecast-jonas-siegenthaler/

plus prospect Travis Boyd, a left-handed center who played a little bit in the playoffs, showed good speed, and has shown enough skill to put up 50 points a year at the AHL level, still needs to find a home in the NHL, but has his name on the Cup, somewhere near Connolly's. Defensively sound enough to play a few games on Barry Trotz' checking line at center or left wing, in the playoffs.

Plus Liam O'Brien, a 23 year old wing prospect who has landed 40 hits in 125 NHL minutes, or one every 3:07? He's not very defensively sound, but has Clutterbuck potential.... https://www.hockey-reference.com/players/o/obrieli01.html

So.... to recap: Connolly who will outscore Zadorov every year, in goals and points, Siegenthaler, who will replace him as a solid stay at home left defenseman, O'Brien who will put up more hits than him, and Boyd, a 4/5C just to add a second Cup winner to the offer, who can join Connolly in telling all the kids stories, and teaching them a little bit about playoff hockey (and who then can be flipped to a rebuilding club that also wants to hear his stories).

Is that getting close? Or is it better to build an offer around one overwhilmingly better player like Burakovsky, and then add a stay at home prospect like Siegenthaler, and a late pick?