I honestly don't even care about the Nylander trade at this point as they are all the same, but for god sakes don't trade Dermott! He is top 4 potential on his ELC, and can play both sides. He is like a less offensive Gardiner right now, and when he develops he will make better decisions than Gards and be better in his own zone (look at his physicality against the caps).

Moving Nylander for Pesce, and his terrific cap hit, would go a long ways in re-signing M&M. Gardiner may have to be a cap casualty and along with the Dermott loss, would not be a good thing at LD.

He is not a less offensive Gards. He's more like a less offensive Ryan Ellis. He's a terrific skater and can move the puck with decent passing or skating it himself. Has a decent shot too. Where he differs from Gardiner is his play in the defensive zone. He's shown a nice mean streak this season and he's far better at not turning the puck over. I'd almost put him above Gardiner already.

I know you would, but he is not. Right now, he is about 2/3rds of Gards offence and 10% better defence.
When he develops, I see him as a 40-49 point Dman (45 if you will) that is better in the D zone than Gards (more physical and makes better decisions). For reference, Gards is a 50 point D man and only sometimes physical with occasional lapses of judgement.

Gardiner isn't a bad player, I think he's fine but I think he's flawed and his next contract will be north of 6 million and pushing 7 million. I wouldn't pay him 5 because he isn't a top pair guy. This is why I seem to have zero love for the guy. He isn't ever going to be better than what he has been.

I doubt he pushes 7. I don't think he will rack up that much of a bidding war. The only way I see him going near 7 aav is a 4 year deal (like Patches). Personally, I think he goes from 30-36 million dollars, so add in whatever term you want. If he goes closer to 30, the Leafs can step in and offer 8 years, slightly front loaded contract (to stay legal) at 3.75 aav (8*3.75 = 30 million) or go flat 4 to outbid other plus the term (for reference, 8@4.5 is 36).

That is a horrible contract. Gardiner is a smooth skater but not exactly fast and he looks like he's already slowing down as he approachs 30 years old. Giving him term and that kind of money is a surefire way to destroy their cap. Never give term to guys exiting their 20's unless they are an elite talent. Tavares will be great even as he approaches 35. Once Gardiner loses a step as many guys do in their 30's he'll barely be an NHL player.

Let him go. That money can be far better spent elsewhere.

Here is the thing that fans need to do if they want to understand how to properly manage a team. You pay your elite core what the market dictates, then you surround them with the highest value contracts you can get. To do that you have to be willing to let guys go who want to much. Is Toronto worse without Gardiner? Right now probably, but as younger guys move up into the lineup, that'll quickly flip. Dermott, Sandin etc are guys who already are showing a more complete game than Gardiner and are taylor made to the new NHL. You have to be willing to move on from depth guys, they'll always price themselves out of town.

Its the same for the depth forwards. Johnsson, Kapanen, Brown, Leivo etc these guys are great and loyal foot soldiers and I love them all, but if one was to ask for a 5 year 3.5 million dollar a year deal this summer, I'd trade them in a second. You have a farm team to develop players that can move up and produce on the big club.

Oh, believe me I understand how to run a team cap wise. Also I think a 35 y/o gards would still be worth 3.75aav, especially in what will likely be a $100 million cap (unless the lockout(s) change anything). The contract only takes him to 36, which is not to old for a Dman, and while I think he will be down to the 3rd pair (or at least our 4-6 Dman) by then, 3.75 is not a ton to pay.

On your depth point, Totally agree, with one exception. I give Kappy that 5@3.5 contract cause god is he good (but only after we lock up the big 3, to make sure we can do it). I will paste an answer I gave a minute ago on what I think the team looks like next year, and you will notice we can fit Kappy in with that, easily.

Q: Can we fit everyone with Nylander at 6.5?
A:
Yes, and it is not even close. I will even go a touch high on the depth.
Forwards: $60 000 000 (<-- I swear that was an not on purpose lol, also did it totally by memory YAY!)
Hyman(2.25)-Tavares(11)-Marner(8)
Marleau(6.25)-Matthews(11)-Kapanen(3)
Nylander(6.5)-Kadri(4.5)-Brown(2.1)
Johnsson(1.5)-Lindholm(1.5)-Grundstrom(0.925)
Leivo(0.800)-Goat(0.675)

Defence: $14 607 499
Rielly(5)-Dermott(0.863,333)
Ohziganov(1.5)-Zaitzev(4.5)
Borgman(0.925)-Liljegren(0.894,166)
Rosen(0.925)

Goalies: $5 800 000
Andersen(5)
Sparks(0.800)

Total = $80 407 499
Salary cap = $82 500 000 (BoG says 81.5 with no inflation and NHLPA says 1.25% inflation, which is 82.5)

All this to say I know it is 1/1,000 chance Gards is back.

It's becoming very apparent that you overrate all leafs players.

And you under rate all Leaf players, you have made that clear from day 1. Rielly is at best a 3rd pairing guy in your world, Nylander is a 3rd line winger, Matthews a 2nd line centre etc. You are a joke.

Not sure where you get this from. I think Matthews is a top 3 nhl center and always have.
I think Reilly is an elite number 2 d man.
Ya, I think the blue line and nylander are a bit overrated. Don’t see how you have a huge issue with that

I take issue with Nylander being overrated for sure. I just don't get how people are so high on Marner and then label Nylander a depth guy. They are very close and Nylander may have more raw talent. But guys like you are out there saying he's overrated with zero reasons given. Troll other guys, discussing hockey with you has zero point.

Speaking of zero, how about your reading comprehension skills. No one labeled nylander a depth guy. Ever

If people value Nylander fairly, he's the best right winger on most teams in the NHL. (Most meaning half) But you and others say he's overrated and call him at best a 2RW on pretty much every team. That's insulting to his talent level and a kin to calling him a depth guy. If he isn't a top liner, then he's a depth guy.

First off, stop getting so defensive.
2nd line wingers are not depth guys, cmon.
I think 99% of the hockey world agrees that he’s a top line winger on most nhl teams.

I just don’t think he’s good enough to get pesce, that’s all.

Settle down

Pesce is essentially Larsson, I don't think you can really make a strong argument that one is much better than the other. Both solid right handed defensive defenceman who offer solid play in their own zone but little in the way of offence. While those players are good, you don't trade a top 15 winger (If he's top line on most teams then he is at worst the 15th best right winger in the entire game), for a defensive defenceman. Would Pesce be a great addition for the Leafs? For sure, but if it cost Nylander, there better be more than just Pesce coming back. Otherwise its a bad trade.