Or perhaps, people can discuss the posted lineup's makeup. You know instead of talking about who Nylander should be traded for, we can talk about tweaking the lineup upon his return.

I don't want to trade Nylander and have spoken against it from the beginning. I agree that most fans make insanely one sided trades. Most of my trades have been minor moves, where the Leafs upgrade their defence with a cheaper more cost effective addition. I am a proponent of trying to get Tanev for half price. I'm not a typical fan on here, I do try to be objective and fair.

Just to prove you wrong, I will give guys the high end of a fair contract's aav (~250-500k more), or even overpay them in regards to depth.

Forwards cap hit: 61.29
Hyman(2.25)-Tavares(11)-Marner(8)
Marleau(6.25)-Matthews(11.34)-Nylander(6.75)
Kapanen(3)-Kadri(4.5)-Brown(2.1)
Johnsson(1.75)-Goat(.675)-Lindholm(1.75)
Leivo(1)-Grundstrom(.925)

Defense cap hit: 14.976,666
Rielly(5)-Dermott(.863,333)
Ozhiganov(1.75)-Zaitzev(4.5)
Borgman(1)-Liljegren(.863,333)
Rosen(1)

Goalies cap hit: 6
Andersen(5)
Sparks(1)

Total cap hit:82.266,666
Cap space (cap @82.5): 0.233,334
Board of Governors have said likely cap with no NHLPA inflater is 81.5 next year, NHLPA has committed to 1.25%. That comes to a cap of 82.5 million.

1.) This is with overpaying the depth, and going high on the big 3 contracts.
2.) Cap is what the League expects it to be.
3.) Full roster buddy.

Womp womp. It works

You have the EXTREME lows for Marner, and Matthews. Those deals are if they say "I'll take a paycut to stay here." Matthews at 13 at Marner at 10 is the high end of things. Kapanen at 5 is the high end. It will probably wind up being 12.5, 9.5, and 4.25, and that has the leafs way, way way over with an already crappy blue line.

Your trades are reasonable, although I think you underrate a lot of the Carolina D men. It's more the cavalier attitude about "the d is fine, the d is fine," that I find unrealistic. As a bruins fan, I'm not saying "the secondary scoring is fine, the secondary scoring is fine." It isn't.

May I present to you, bcarlo25 - ******* delusional on the contracts. Also, just ignore the fact I overpaid the **** out of the depth, and we will have cap space to sign way over price on the big 3. I gave them all the high end of reasonable contracts.

You are totally right that when you overpay the **** out of every aspect of your team, it doesn't work. When your name is not Peter Chiarelli however, it does.

This is exactly why you have a reputation as just a petty hater. Matthews won't get more than McDavid. His contract was on the books for the first time this season, its too recent and he's just better than Matthews. He may get 12 but whatever his number is, it'll be less than McDavid. Marner at 10 is just silly. He's a 21 year winger who still hasn't scored at a point a game. He may this year but how much of that is the Tavares effect? I am not saying Marner isn't a play driver, he certaintly is, but 10 million is silly. Kucherov got less than 10 for 2 seasons of playing above a point a game.

You sound exactly like a guy who wants to see the Leafs burn.

And allow me to present to you, a perfect demonstration of leaf fan delusion. But they'll take a paycut right? Money isn't important if you get to be in Toronto right? They'll make it up in endorsements right?

There is no logical reason for Matthews to take less than McDavid, but you've got him at 11. what a laugh.

Okay, logically, let's think this through. I think Matthews might be better than McDavid, thus, I must hate the leafs. What planet are you on? The guys unreal, is looking like he's going to blow McDavid's contract year (100 poitns, he signed a year early, remember) out of the water, score double the goals, and get paid less? why? because the cap has gone down? wait...it went up significantly. Explain why Marner should get less than Jack Eichel when the cap is 5+ higher than it was when Eichel signed please.

Here is the thing, all you guys who say the Leafs defense is terrible. You only have 1 stat to lean on and that is shots against which is a terrible stat to use as a measurement of defensive success.

NHL goalies should stop almost every shop from the outside, so if you allow 50 shots from the outside, are they doing a bad job? Limiting high danger chances are a far better measurement and given the high tempo game TO plays they stand to give up more than some other teams, but if they continually produce the majority of high danger chances, (The leafs have an almost 2-1 ration in that regard over the last season) your defensive play is fine. Further on this point, adding 1 defenceman only affects his partner, it doesn't make every other player on the team better. So until TO consistently plays a better team D game, it doesn't matter who you trade Nylander for.

As for Carolina's D. I think Slavin is amazing, Hamilton has flaws but he's really good too. Pesce is extremely valuable but he's a younger version of Tanev at best. Which is a good player but he's not an allstar who will win you a tonne of games, he's a guy who will prevent a lot of goals and really stabilize a more offensively gifted guy (Rielly would be sick with Pesce as his partner), after that the Canes have average guys. Faulk etc are all good but not great players.

No logical reason? McDavid is way better, and it isn't even close. Until Matthews puts up back to back 100 + point seasons on a team that has no one else, that is when Matthews deserves McDavid money.
None of these are discounts. Not even one of them. A discount would be Marner at 7 or less, Nylander at 6 or less, and Matthews at 10. This is what they are worth, plus a little bit. I will link you the stats again, but you will refuse to read them, again, because it disproves everything you want to believe.

https://www.capfriendly.com/armchair-gm/team/884206

Extreme lows what a laugh.... You don't have any idea what you are talking about.

I WOULD LIKE TO REPEAT THE FACT THAT I OVERPAID ALL OF THE DEPTH IN THAT AS WELL, BUT YOU JUST SEEM CONTENT TO IGNORE THAT BIT OF INFORMATION.

With logic I will help this one out.

Matthews isn't better than McDavid. I think he's a better goal scorer and I don't think Matthews is going to cool off to the point that he has just a good year, he'll score 60 plus this season. However, he won't have a year like McDavid had last year when he scored over 80 5v5 points. McDavid is just better, he's the best player in the entire league and because of that, it will be several years before someone makes more than him.

As for Marner, he's a winger. Eichel is a centre. End of discussion.

If McDavid held out to sign after last season, he would have gotten 13.5

I feel the need to point out that while you are not wrong that BCarlo over pays everyone, I wouldn't call any of the contracts you have as an overpayment. Kapanen scores 20 goals and 3 million is an underpayment. Also contracts are changing from "what DID you do to deserve this" to "What WILL you do to deserve this" which is something I believe you are failing to understand. You are using many comparables of other similar players and what they got after their ELC's but these players are instead going to the team and saying "I don't care what those guys did, I am going to score x amount of points over this contract, therefore I deserve x amount of money." And to be honest, that is a fair and smart way to look at stuff like this. Never pay guys for what they did in their hay day, pay them for their hay days and then pay them less when they exit their prime.

He was given 13.5 and apparently went back to the team and said lets drop that down a million. But still I think the point that is very hard to argue is McDavid is the best player and therefore should get paid the most. Its really that simple. I think the absolute highest contract that Matthews will get is a 12.5 million. It'll be hard to argue against that. I imagine the contract negotiations will be rather quick. He's going to get a huge contract and he'll deserve it.

Since you didn't mention Marner, I assume my logic made sense.

I seem to remember another rookie scoring 20 goals not that long ago, and getting far less than 3 million. I think his name might be Connor Brown(3@2.1). I gave Kapanen 3@3, hows that for cap inflation eh?
Also, I only overpaid the depth. The big 3 got the high end of fair contracts (the difference between Nylander making 6.25 and 6.75 for example).

You don't think Gaudreau (signed like barely 3 years ago now) was paid for what he would do? In fact I remember him holding out for a bigger pay day.

I agree with the idea, but does the league go by your idea, or what has been happening the last few years? Also, they will say I am worth 8 b/c I will, he league is saying you are worth 6 because you are, and they will meet somewhere in the middle. That middle number is between 6.25 and 6.5 for Nylander, between 7.5 and 8 for Marner, and between 10.5 and 11.5 for Matthews.

I'm not going to argue about this because you are clearly firm on this stance. I don't look backwards and pine for the good old days, I look ahead and try to stay ahead of trends. And paying guys for what they did instead of what they will do is the trend of the future. Kapanen won't get 3 from the Leafs, they'll offer him a 1 year deal max. Because they can't afford what the cost will be on anything more than a year.

Why not? 6.75m works easily. Makes for a good comparable for marner to keep him under 8m. The math works.

Those numbers are ridiculous... pasta 6.67m and marner 9.5m ???? You are off the rails man.

Wow this is a long thread. 6 years x $6.75M would be great for the Leafs. I'd be ecstatic for you guys if he signed that!

I somewhat feel like your description is targeted partially at me (although Spurge is definitely a top pairing guy, he's just getting old so understandable the Leafs wouldn't want to trade a 22 year old stud for him) so I just want to apologize for the million Nylander threads I've posted, lol. The guy is my favorite non-Wild player so by nature I was hyped as all hell at the thought of him in a Wild sweater. I've always felt he'd remain a Leaf and my dream would die out eventually. It seems like this crazy ride is coming to an end very soon thankfully.

I always thought your trade ideas were thoughtful and fairly fair. But as we've discussed I am against it based on the age difference. Proposing trades that are rather fair are completely fine. I just can't handle seeing stuff like Nylander + for Faulk or garbage like that. Its just silly.

Agreed (and thank you I always try to make fair deals on this site), if Spurgeon were say 24 I think it would be a perfect match (assuming Dubas is even considering trading Nylander and every report has said that has never crossed his mind).

Yeah I don't see Faulk being a centerpiece in a Nylander trade. Faulk is a very solid player and I often think his defensive game is underrated, but the idea of him being worth Nylander is silly. He's a 2nd pairing defenseman that excels on the PP. Can he play top pairing minutes? Sure, but he shouldn't. Same goes for Tanev, you aren't getting Nylander for Tanev +

If you really dig deep into Faulk's game, he's not at all good defensively. He is the worst defenceman at boxing guys out in front of the net. If he's on the ice, the right side of the crease will be vacant. And I am not in favour of trading Nylander, currently there are no defenceman the right age or skill level that would make any sense to part with Nylander for.

When you pay for. "player will," you get Draisaitl's contract.

But I do understand where you are coming from, I think you mis-understand my position though. I think Nylander is a 65-75 point guy each year, and that gets you about 6.5 on a 6 year deal. I know you said you think Nylander gets up to 80, which is where our numbers diverge. I am paying Nylander for what he has done, but also what he will do, we just disagree on what he will do.

Ultimately, time will prove one of us right, and we should come back and discuss after he signs and after a season or two.