**So before you comment, please try to read this. I know it's a lot but it outlines why I think this may or may not happen.**
I'm going to try and hit as many reasons as I can, but I may be missing some for either side.
I'll start with reasons Winnipeg would not do this so they are in your head for why they would do this:
1. Vesalainen and Roslovic are extremely coveted players on ELC's. I get that 100%, and if I were to guess I'd say Winnipeg would turn this down because of this exact reason. The Jets will have to start handing out big contracts so ELC players become much more valuable. Both Roslovic and Vesalainen have a lot of upside to them and they were both used with later 1st round picks (excellent drafting by the Jets). These guys could be mainstays on the Jets rosters for years to come, so the Jets are shipping out some future pieces here.
2. These are some big prospects to give to a divison rival. The same argument could be made about the pieces the Wild are giving the Jets, but given Vesalaninen and Roslovic are younger they will be bigger thorns in the side for the Jets down the road than Staal, Granlund, and Brodin might be for the Wild.
3. Staal isn't having as good of a year as last year. I think if he were on pace for 40+ goals, this would be extremely tempting. Unfortunately, Staal hasn't been as good. He looked awesome before the deadline but he's been struggling since. The fact he's on the trading block and doesn't have an extension is getting to his head, and this is coming right from Staal so I'm not speculating here. I think if he were traded he might be able to put that past him and accept his new role on a much better team to give him a shot at another cup.
4. Granlund and Brodin are turning older. These two aren't young guns anymore, but they certainly aren't on the tails of their careers. I don't think this is quite as strong of a point as my previous three, but it's worth noting that they are older than Roslovic and Vesalainen.
5. There are some bigger fish on the market. Players like Stone, Panarin, and Duchene are better than Granlund and the Jets might prefer to go after those guys instead.
6. The Jets are taking on a bit of cap here for next season. Assuming Roslovic plays in the NHL and Vesalainen is in the AHL, the Jets are taking on $1,814,168 in cap next season. Assuming Vesalainen is ready for the NHL next season, this comes to a much more reasonable $889,168 which isn't a lot, but would be the amount of a depth player.
This is a ton to ask from Winnipeg, but here's some reasons they would do it:
1. Granlund could provide a jump for Laine. Both are Finns and complement each other extremely well. Granlund is one of the best passers in the league and could get Laine the puck anywhere on the ice. All Laine has to do is pull the trigger and watch the goals pile up. I think this might be a huge reason to go for Granlund over a Stone, Panarin, or Duchene since you are essentially "adding" two players here (one being Granny and the other being Laine's skills). Of course, this same argument could be made for the big three rentals, but I think Granlund complements Laine the best out of all four.
2. The Jets could use another center. Little has been heating up as of late, but Staal would provide a scoring 2C and gives the Jets some more depth to go on a serious run.
3. Granlund and Brodin are not UFA's this year. This is a crucial aspect of this trade for the Jets. If they make a move for a Panarin, Stone, or Duchene, there's a pretty good chance they can't afford any of them after this year so they would be pure rentals. This trade boosts the current and future Jets roster nicely to go on cup runs for at least another year since Granlund is under contract for next year and Brodin has two more years remaining on his deal.
4. Brodin allows Niku to develop and provides help to their weak left side. Brodin is more than capable of handling top 4 minutes and could play on the top pairing in a pinch, but he wouldn't have to unless Morrissey is injured. Niku will probably take a little time to develop and adding Brodin allows them to be more patient with him, versus rushing him up to the NHL and ruining his potential. Again, this also boosts their already very good defense.
5. The Jets have a logjam at LW, leaving little room for Vesalainen to grow. The Jets are absolutely stacked on wing: Laine, Ehlers, and Connor is probably the best LW group in the league. Where does Vesalinen fit? I don't see a spot for him unless he plays his off-wing, but even then they have Wheeler and Appleton.
6. They get rid of Kulikov. Kulikov has way too many injuries. Kind of a shame since he could have been a solid NHL'er. The Jets have some big contracts to dish out very soon and he would be the first guy I'd look to move if I were them.
7. They get to keep their first rounder. This is important for my first and fifth point in why they wouldn't do this, but the Jets can either use this pick for a cheap ELC or grab another rental with their first. The ball is in their court.
8. The time to win is now. Canada has had a 26 year cup drought, and the Jets will want to be the first one to end that. This trade gives them a better shot to do that this year.
Only one issue is that Staal and Granlund are running on relatively short contracts. Staal's most likely ending up as UFA this season, Granlund the season after that. That might put them into position to reconsider moving two of their leading prospects.
Well thought out trade. I think there are pros and cons (as you mentioned) for each team with this trade. However, if Minnesota were to go full blown rebuild and Winnipeg all out for the Cup this trade makes a lot of sense
Only one issue is that Staal and Granlund are running on relatively short contracts. Staal's most likely ending up as UFA this season, Granlund the season after that. That might put them into position to reconsider moving two of their leading prospects.
Thanks! I agree, however there are talks that Winnipeg is interested in one of the bigger names on the market and adding a Granlund over one of them gives the Jets more than a 40 game rental (extending their cup window from one all-in year to two). I think he'd be a better acquisition from their standpoint because of that additional year. Basically if the Jets are considering going after a high-end rental, this would be more of a long-term outlook than a Stone, Panarin, or Duchene. If they aren't looking for a high-end rental, then this trade doesn't really matter.
It's a very tough sell, though, since both Roslovic and Vesalainen have so much potential.
Quoting: joshelkin
Well thought out trade. I think there are pros and cons (as you mentioned) for each team with this trade. However, if Minnesota were to go full blown rebuild and Winnipeg all out for the Cup this trade makes a lot of sense
Thank you! I tried to leave no stone unturned. I do think that MN will blow it up, our GM has the green light from our GM to do what he pleases and reports are that he's not happy with our NHL roster, nor our prospect system. Adding prospects over picks allows for an accelerated rebuild since these prospects are further along in their development than an 18 year old would be in this year's draft.
Wouldn't do it for the 1st two reasons you put. Vesalainen is important since he'll help us through the Seattle draft with minimal losses.
Also the central is bad enough it's not worth throwing in extra chips this year when we stand to spread the gap even further in the future than the rest of the central. We have the 2nd youngest team in the league, and the rest of the powers in the NHL have realistically no shot at being this good this time next year with the exception of Calgary contingent upon getting a goalie (easier said than done.)
We can talk Kulikov cap dumps for picks and B prospects, and we can talk Staal rentals for picks and more B prospects, but it's not a the time to be going all in.
It would be a guarantee cup for the jets but they didn’t want to jeopardize their future
I agree. Vesalainen and Roslovic are big pieces for the Jets. They do still have their first, along with other pretty good prospects so it's not like all is lost, but I completely get what you mean.
Wouldn't do it for the 1st two reasons you put. Vesalainen is important since he'll help us through the Seattle draft with minimal losses.
Also the central is bad enough it's not worth throwing in extra chips this year when we stand to spread the gap even further in the future than the rest of the central. We have the 2nd youngest team in the league, and the rest of the powers in the NHL have realistically no shot at being this good this time next year with the exception of Calgary contingent upon getting a goalie (easier said than done.)
We can talk Kulikov cap dumps for picks and B prospects, and we can talk Staal rentals for picks and more B prospects, but it's not a the time to be going all in.
Couldn't agree more. Granlund to Laine would be insane, though. It mainly depends on how desperate the Jets are to win this year, and I mainly just based this off the fact they are reported to be looking into getting Stone (which is an all-in move if you ask me). The wild card teams in the west are worse this year, but I'd argue the Sharks and the Flames will be very tough opponents in a series. Even Nashville has a solid team, although I'd take the Jets over them. And then you have to consider who the Eastern teams are for the cup. Tampa is absolutely ridiculous and if you asked me who would win that series with both current rosters, I'd take Tampa hands down.
If Granny and Staal were playing at the same level as last season I could see this happening, but both of them are playing like garbage (by their standards) right now.
-Staal is pointless since the AS break, and had 1g in a 14 game stretch from mid-Dec. to mid-Jan.
-Granny has 1p 5v5 in the last 16 games, and 3g total in the last 40 games.
This is an all in move for the Jets and slumping players aren't the ones you go all in with.
If Granny and Staal were playing at the same level as last season I could see this happening, but both of them are playing like garbage (by their standards) right now.
-Staal is pointless since the AS break, and had 1g in a 14 game stretch from mid-Dec. to mid-Jan.
-Granny has 1p 5v5 in the last 16 games, and 3g total in the last 40 games.
This is an all in move for the Jets and slumping players aren't the ones you go all in with.
Yep, I outlined that in my description. Although I'd argue that these two could flourish on a better team. Look at Nino, he's lighting up the league with his change in scenery.
First, I congratulate you on this solid proposal. Tradecraft is difficult; but you have given the right amount of time and effort to make sure every base is covered.
I'd like to ask if you happen to be a fan of either team, or a hockey fan with no Allegiance. No judgment..just honest curiosity.
Yep, I outlined that in my description. Although I'd argue that these two could flourish on a better team. Look at Nino, he's lighting up the league with his change in scenery.
Nino looked like he gave up on life in MN.
Granny just looks injured/hurting and has for months now. His skating is bad (at his best it's average) and his hands have left him. His effort is still there every game; which is more concerning to me than if he just wasn't trying. He's trying to do his normal things but his body is holding him back, it's like watching Parise try an play with his bad back the last few seasons.
Staal might rebound with a new team, but he did this same thing he's doing now his last year contract year. He wasn't good in Car, and was useless in NYR after he was traded.
Couldn't agree more. Granlund to Laine would be insane, though. It mainly depends on how desperate the Jets are to win this year, and I mainly just based this off the fact they are reported to be looking into getting Stone (which is an all-in move if you ask me). The wild card teams in the west are worse this year, but I'd argue the Sharks and the Flames will be very tough opponents in a series. Even Nashville has a solid team, although I'd take the Jets over them. And then you have to consider who the Eastern teams are for the cup. Tampa is absolutely ridiculous and if you asked me who would win that series with both current rosters, I'd take Tampa hands down.
One of my problems with the 'all-in' line of thinking is that it's predicated on the idea that bringing the best roster to the NHL playoffs gives you the cup. It's a little bit more random than that, and if you treat the playoffs as a probability and each season as an independent event than you can see why it's better to maximize window rather than actual strength of roster (playoff seed). As long as you get 100 points in the regular season you are pretty much guaranteed a puncher's chance at the Stanley Cup. If we were to go all in I'd want all but the actual final guaranteed.
I agree 100% with your assessment of the west this year, but next year some things change. Nashville has to replace two top 6 wingers, and resign Sissons with 13mill in cap space (I don't see Craig Smith as a top 6 player anymore). San Jose has much less cap space and has to find a way to resign Karlsson if they're trying to be anything close to this year. Calgary needs to find a goalie. You can cap dump all you want, but you still need the prospects to fill those holes and past Tolvanen we're starting to look a little thin on the high, high end talent in the rest of the West. I'd go all in with the Jets in a couple years, but not this year when it's a little too competitive for my taste.
Granny just looks injured/hurting and has for months now. His skating is bad (at his best it's average) and his hands have left him. His effort is still there every game; which is more concerning to me than if he just wasn't trying. He's trying to do his normal things but his body is holding him back, it's like watching Parise try an play with his bad back the last few seasons.
Staal might rebound with a new team, but he did this same thing he's doing now his last year contract year. He wasn't good in Car, and was useless in NYR after he was traded.
You think his effort is there? I've thought the opposite. Looks like he's just floating through games at times. I could be wrong, I'll pay attention to him Saturday.
It's definitely a risk for Winnipeg, but we know these guys are quality players despite their recent regressions.
Nice work, can't see them moving Roslovic at all, and don't think they want to move Vesalainen either. Throwing away their future
Thank you! Yep I agree. This is based off the premise that the Jets are shopping for Stone, per McKenzie. That, to me, means they are looking for a high-end player which will cost them high-end pieces (such as Roslovic or Vesalainen). I'm with you, though, I don't think either of these two are moved but it's fun to make posts like this and dive into possible options if they were to move them.
You think his effort is there? I've thought the opposite. Looks like he's just floating through games at times. I could be wrong, I'll pay attention to him Saturday.
It's definitely a risk for Winnipeg, but we know these guys are quality players despite their recent regressions.
I'm not a fan of this attempt to make him a center again. He looks like he's still trying to play in Yeo's center high system; lots of floating around the o-zone, pass first and always, and not much engagement. It's painful to watch and is killing his value.
Thank you! Yep I agree. This is based off the premise that the Jets are shopping for Stone, per McKenzie. That, to me, means they are looking for a high-end player which will cost them high-end pieces (such as Roslovic or Vesalainen). I'm with you, though, I don't think either of these two are moved but it's fun to make posts like this and dive into possible options if they were to move them.
I'm not a fan of this attempt to make him a center again. He looks like he's still trying to play in Yeo's center high system; lots of floating around the o-zone, pass first and always, and not much engagement. It's painful to watch and is killing his value.
Same I have never liked Granny at center, but he only played one full game there. He played wing last game.
Same I have never liked Granny at center, but he only played one full game there. He played wing last game.
He started the game as a center. Last game got weird with Rask and Hendricks both getting injured and there was 10 total penalties. It lead to lots of jumbled lines and an odd flow to the game. Granny had over 25 mins ToI last game.
He started the game as a center. Last game got weird with Rask and Hendricks both getting injured and there was 10 total penalties. It lead to lots of jumbled lines and an odd flow to the game. Granny had over 25 mins ToI last game.
He started there but didn't play the full game there (which is what I said, or meant to imply at least). Regardless we both agree he's a bad center and playing him there tanks his value.
He started there but didn't play the full game there (which is what I said, or meant to imply at least). Regardless we both agree he's a bad center and playing him there tanks his value.
Parise/Staal/Granny needs to be a line. Keep Foligno/JEE/Kunin together, and turn the rest into an all purpose line.
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