There 's no way that trade is good. That return is just awful

Difficult for teams to take on 10m in cap without sending some money back

The blues would never send a 2nd to take Backes from you.
At most Krug would be the price to pay, but considering every boston fan wants to dump Krug, mainly because he's not really all that good, you will most likely have to sweeten the pot.

Hard to sell teams on 5'9 defense men. Talk him up all you want People like big defense men, they don't get injured as often, they hit, they clear the net.

Except the little guys who score keep getting paid and keep getting drafted high. Yes - Bruins fans want him out because A) they know he is going to get a substantial raise. B) We see McAvoy as a replacement with Grzelcyk as a backup for the Defensive QB.

Guess who has the exact same amount of points this season and last combined? Erik Karlsson.

This is an absolute horrible deal for the Bruins. 2 years of Backes at 6m isn't good, but real money is far less, and if not STL teams will need to get to floor. STL has a ton of expiring money (Boumeester, Del Zotto, Gunnerson, Maroon) would give them more than enough $ to bring in both salaries and arguably be better. Backes is better than McKenzie MaCeachern. He'll pretty much give you what Maroon has given you this year.

The Bruins are far better off dealing krug for a 1st and Backes and 3rd for a 7th of something like that.

the "little guys who keep scoring keep getting paid" ???? where?
Maybe a winger that can play a top line. But even then they aren't 5'9. There are a hand full of players that small.

Please don't compare Krug to Karlsson it's not even close. Karlsson is 6 foot and can handle crap on his own end. Krug is hidden. That's why he's considered one of the best and Krug is not.
I don't know where you get this idea he's worth a 1st. I highly doubt any team is giving you a 1st for him. If he was that good you would trade other people out and not him. He wouldn't be the 1st on the list out the door. They would have saved money not signing an old slow Chara and used it on Krug. But teams like their defense men big, which is why Chara stays and Krug is out the door.

You have an up hill climb to convince any GM to take Krug. It doesn't help that player like Shattenkirk have been total flops before him as well.
While someone might take a flyer on him, it won't be giving something up for it. Especially if they are taking Backes. You can forget that.

I guess we will see. And you can say whatever you want about stats, but they are what they are. He is a top 5 offensive Dman in the league. His Possession numbers are off the charts good. Also - Can Karlsson really handle things in his own end or is it his skating ability which has looks fairly pedestrian these last couple years since his foot injuries - Still Excellent, don't get me wrong, but he has gone down in point production each of the last four years, while Krug has increased production each of the last four years.
The NHL is changing. Dmen like Krug, Barrie, Letang, Dumba, Karlsson, are becoming the Norm. The days of the Chara and Pronger type dman are gone. The whole game has gone the way of the smaller faster and more skilled skater.

If he were small and terrible, I'd get what you are saying, but he literally has the exact same amount of points as Karlsson. Numbers don't lie. One can't be elite offensive and one just ok. Not when it's been 6 seasons of 40+ points straight and a trend to increase that. (might be a little down this year, but PPG is up). 13 guys have been drafted on defense that are 6 feet or under in the first round over the last two seasons.

Also 2018 Draft
#7 Quinn Hughes 5'10"
#8 Adam Boqvist 6'0"
#17 Ty Smith 5'11"
#21 Ryan Mekley 5'11"
#26 Jacob Bernard-Docker 6'0"
#27 Nicolas Beaudin 5'10"
#28 Nils Lundkvist 5'11"
#29 Rasmus Sandin 5'11"
2017 Draft
#3 Miro Heiskanen 6'0"
#4 Cale Makar 5'11"
#15 Erik Brännström 5'10"
#17 Timothy Liljegren 6'0"
#29 Henri Jokiharju 6'0"

I don't know where you go from guys being 5'9 to being the same thing as 6 foot. It's not. It does matter too.
There are only 3 players listed there at 5'10 or less.
The idea that small defense men is the future of the NHL is simply not true. There are by far more guys selected at 6 foot + than those under 5'10.
Just because you are tall doesn't mean you can't skate. No one would say Tom Wilson can't skate. He's 6'5.
To be drafted high in hockey, be big, fast, physical, and have some skill.

You keep comparing Krug to Karlsson. No one hides Karlsson on the ice. No one. You can't say that about Krug. They are not even close to the same thing. The guy gets 71.9% of his starts in the offensive zone. I wish I had the state for the neutral zone because I bet we'd see close to 100% total. I believe he's the highest in the whole league.
The last place they want him is in his own zone. How do you think a defense man who the coaches don't want in his own zone is going to get you a 1st round pick or is the same as Karlsson.
No one worries when it's Karlsson in his own zone.

He's a midget defense men. Period. While yes there maybe one or two others out there, please don't confuse this with being the norm. It's not. Defense men have to stand people up at the blue line, clear the next for their goalies, play physical. There is a reason teams still like guys who are 6'3+ but will go with guys 6 foot + if they are really good players like a Letang. Who is a very physical player.

But there is some point where being 5'9 isn't going to stop these forwards who are 6'2+ that teams love to have in front of the net
Sure they can deal with a 5'11 forward. But if you think teams aren't trying to get the mismatch you are kidding yourself. Which is why a Chara is getting the defensive zone starts and Krug isn't.

Basically what you are saying is you need to be tall to be good. The League has 100% changed over the last 5 or so years towards smaller more skilled players. That included Dmen. The Game is less physical and more skill. Yes, Tall guys can still skate, Plenty of them, but they need to be able to skate

The reason the D has shifted is because of the forwards. You don't need to be 6'2" to move guys like Johnson, Point, Marchand, Pastrnak, Marner Gaudreau from infront of the net. I am by no means suggesting that you want and all under 6' D squad, but one or two guys won't hurt you anymore. The power forwards that need to be moved don't really exist on a large scale any more. The bigger guys can skate now - Like the Tom Wilson's. They are not Keith Tkachuk or Shane Doan who you have to move from the front of the net. Just look at Lucic - that skill set is going away.

Kane, Gaudreau, Point, Marner, Crosby, Marchand - All in top 10 in scoring are all pretty diminutive. Kucherov and Stamkos are giants either.

As for Protecting Karlsson. Menh - you might want to do some research

Erik Karlsson Offensive Zone Start % 60.1
Torey Krug Offensive Zone Start % 66.1

So both teams are 100% hiding their defensive prowess.

Why is Chara getting the defensive zone starts? why would he? Same reason Karlsson isn't. It's not their strong suit. When you have guys like Vlasic & Burns, or Chara and Carlo/Miller why would you start the offensive minded guy in the D zone? A) it's coaching B) it's using your players correctly.

The Bruins are a good example. Where do you want your player expending energy. Under Cassidy The Bruins have drastically reduced Bergeron's Defensive liability/responsibility - on faceoffs and PK and surprise, surprise his scoring is way up? Also - Kind of hard to argue Bergeron's defensive ability with all his Selke's - He started 58.6% in the offensive zone. Their best face off guy. Their best defender. Sean Kuraly starts in the D zone over 67% of the time.

yes, those things can be telling signs, but sometime it's the coach putting their players in the best position based on their skill set. If you want to say you want big hulking dmen fine, but you can't praise Karlsson in the same sentence. He has the same offensive numbers as Krug. Yes, I believe Karlsson is(was?) better however not 6m+ cap hit better. Not for a slight defensive improvement. Neither guy is out there down a man tied with a minute left.

How can you say nobody worries about Karlsson in the d zone? he is a -37 for his career. Krug is a +25.

No basically what I am saying is you have to be physical. And when you are 5'9 and a 6'2+ player is charging at you, you are about to get run over.
Period.
I don't know why you don't get that. No 5'9 player is going to stand them up at the blue line, prevent them from crashing the net and running your goalie.
The average height of an NHL player is 6'1 last year. If you want your player run over all the time go for it. Please stop acting like it's normal for teams to have 5'9 defense men. It's not. There are what 2 of them in the league?
Doesn't that tell you something?

Because the game is not as physical anymore as you are making it out to be. It's just not. There are 7 guys in the top 10 in scoring who are under 6 feet. Why aren't the big dmen just running into them and stopping them?

I like how you ignored the fact karlsson is hidden just about as much as Krug, cost twice as much and produced exactly the same. He has great hair though so he is worth and extra 6m.

Yes, Krug is smaller than most, but who cares, he produces. I agree he isn't great defensively. He is average to slightly below, but that doesn't change the fact he is ELITE offensively, and that has value. a ton of it. He could easily get a 1st round pick or an A prospect back.

Also - Matt Grzelcyk is pretty similar in size and that is NEVER said about him.

Lots of Big guys can hit and clear the net - Adam McQuaid. It doesn't make them good or better than Krug. You are really hung up on the Big Physical Dman.
In No particular order
Victor Hedman - 1/10 seasons with over 100 hits.
Roman Josi - 0/8 seasons with over 81 hits.
Brent Burns 6/15 BUT Didn't hit 100 hits in each of last three years.
Drew Doughty - 9/10 with over 100 - Dude hits - Has played 8 playoff games since 2015
Mark Giordano - 2/11 - Has not hit 100 hits in last 8 years
Morgan Rielly - 0/6 - Zero seasons over 100 hits
John Carlson - 0/10 - Zero seasons over 100 hits


Point being the Doughty's and Byfuglien's aren't as common as you would think. Obviously you want a guy who can do it all. Like if you could put McDavid's skill and combine it with Tom Wilson's physicality, but generally you get one or the other with rare exceptions. Radko Gudas hits everything and still stinks.

When you say this game isn't physical I'm wondering what figure skating championship you are watching as it surely isn't hockey.

Hits doesn't imply physical play. There are plenty of high light real goals and attempts of people getting run over to the net, people crashing the net etc.. When your goalies get run and leave with concussions you might figure out that having midget defense men doesn't work.
Even all those smaller goal scorers you mention usually have someone standing in front of the net providing the screen so their shot can't be seen.

I'm not even going to sit here and argue with you on it any longer as you clearly watch figure skating.
But one thing I know is Krug isn't worth a 1st round pick and this trade would never be accepted.

LOL. Ok - you keep altering your already poor argument. I never said the game wasn't physical. I said it was less physical than it has been. It's a fact. It's contact sport, so physicality is obviously part of it.

You keep creating these straw man arguments and not actually looking at the facts.

The enforcer is basically gone from the game. The power forward is almost gone from the game. There is clearly an emphasis on skill. Considering the slashing, hooking rules of today compared to say 15-20 years ago is VERY noticeable. The league wants more skill - would you agree?

Case in point:
The 1989-90 Penguins had 10 guys (in a lenient era) with over 100 PIMs. It was like that for most of the Mario era- a few years they had 2+ guys with over 200 PIM's.
The 2019 Penguins will likely have none. Malkin is close as he currently sits at 89.

10 guys with over 100 vs None.

The League is less physical. It is still a contact sport and a physical game. If Krug weighed 160 lbs, I could see your argument. The dude is probably pushing 190-200lbs and is built like a triangle.


STL would jump as this trade in a heartbeat.

My Favorite part of your argument was bringing up Rask getting "Run" - Welp, not really what happened. At all. McAvoy in an attempt to clear the net/beat the guy to the front/make a play hit Chytil into Rask. One might argue if it were krug and not McAvoy he may not have been propelled into Rask.

You act like goalies are getting run left and right because there are smaller dmen that can't stop them.

I don't remember Lucic running over a dman before he crushed Miller

I will use Kreider as an example
Ran over Anderson (ott) after collision with.... Methot 6'4" 230lbs
Ran over MAF or Pitt goalie - after collison with Letang 6'0" 200lbs
Ran over Price - after battle with Emelin - 6'2" - 220lbs

Here is a video of aforementioned Kreider Runs - If you have any actual footage of a goalie getting run because a smaller dman couldn't move a bigger forward, I would love to see.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W9x_jKxBM1Q

Seems like some people worry about Karlsson's D.

LOL

https://www.capfriendly.com/armchair-gm/team/1095855

yes there are also people who think McDavid is one of the worse defensive players in the game.

https://www.capfriendly.com/armchair-gm/team/1095106

that doesn't really mean it's true and you wouldn't want them on your team.